Landraces . Will we ever smoke what we once had? If no is there a Way back?

Sam_Skunkman · May 31, 2019

Indigenous peoples worldwide were able to create high THC only varieties long before THC was even Identified.
They smoke any great looking plants and save the seeds for next year of the ones they liked best, after a few hundred years they will be mosly THC only varieties, like in Thailand and many other traditional Ganja producing areas.
Organoleptic analysis worked long before THC was discovered or known to be what gets you high in Cannabis.

-SamS

Sam_Skunkman · May 31, 2019

People at IC have different opinions about what a landrace is, but if it is high THC it was made and maintained by man, wild races or escaped from cultivation landraces will not have high THC.
If escaped from mans drug cultivation they may have more THC than CBD, but the THC levels are not very high as that takes man to select and maintain without man nature will not select for high THC or even more THC than CBD for very long.

-SamS

White Beard · May 31, 2019

Check my understanding on this please:

Absent cultivation (human intervention on any scale), we can expect habitat to perform a sort of selection, such as: if the seeds are thick enough on the ground and growing conditions are good, we can expect them to crowd each other horizontally and compete vertically for sunlight; we can expect the winners to statistically overpollinate the stand, and induce a more vertically inclined and strongly-fibered population, a mechanism which will amplify from there.

Similarly, if seeds are not as thickly strewn and growing conditions are less good, we can expect that the plants will *not* be competing vertically, but may instead compete with the environment whether it be wet, windy, salty, rocky, filled with insects, etc. Depending on local variation, the plants could manifest in any number of ways that help them adapt and reproduce. As cannabis is known to produce exudate with many valuable properties, and to produce pith which is good for paper (first example covers fiber, I think), it’s reasonable to assume that locale plays a role in which general phenotypes are expressed.

I’m unaware so far of projects that have tested any of this, or have done long-term observational and analytical fieldwork that would yield data on the prospect.

I believe we still have a great deal to learn...I sure do

CannaZen · Jun 1, 2019

Im Sorry it probably does sound like gibberish to you I dont know.

Mr. Greengenes · Jun 1, 2019

Just wanted to point out to OP that a tree shape does not represent a pedigree. A pedigree is perfectly symmetrical with each individual having two parents. It maintains this perfect symmetry all the way back to the introduction of sex. A perfectly symmetrical tree would have one trunk, two branches at the first tier, four at the next and so on. An actual drawing of a tree can be used to represent a family tree, but a family tree is the exact opposite of a pedigree in one very important way; the flow of time. A family tree starts with an individual and goes forward in time, while the pedigree starts with the same individual and goes backwards. Going forward, some people have 1 child, others in the family have 7 and some have none (that branch ends there). Going backwards, every single individual has two surviving parents all...the...way....back...pretty amazing actually.

Im'One · Jun 1, 2019

Yea...well some of the best horses in the world are created by programs combining natural selection with manmade selection. Peruvian Pasos and Icelandic horses for example.

Taking a clue from that, we need be careful to not "coddle" or "pamper" the plant for its "own good."

PDX Dopesmoker · Jun 1, 2019

CannaZen said:
Relative. Some people find single cola plants to be unefficient for their growing conditions and so it is insufficient because it becomes physical genetically in the progeny down the road. its been proven in rna coding sequences carrying to seed. honest to god. evolution in motion physically speaking you are looking at the visual representation of the plants present genome uniformity from a cellular level i swear to god on via the part of the cerebral cortex that receives and processes sensory nerve impulses from the eyes, an analogous color picture String theory logic.

Plants are very metaphysical, you know. as human we evolved shaped and defined by our environment chased up the metaphorical tree to climb only back down and domesticated we found ourselves learning to walk the ground ever again running flying tree to tree grounded to the universal acclimatization of reality of drought, the tree brought. Don't you think consciously it is purposeful, Right. as one organism earth runs on alternating currents of electricity if we evolved direct current of flowing ions omg.. you know. is THAT conscious? neurons run alternating current if i am correct biocells also utilize electrical current of ion flow to direct. we're grounded to the earth. the sun. the galaxy as the universe, somehow electromagnetic radiation we do not fully understand and now humans dont visually see the full electromagnetic radiation of the spectograph, visually. I honestly wonder to myself if color is me, that this be my electromagnetic interpretation of directional thought as my own individuality i see the through the signal.

to find intelligence life in ionic currents... polar opposites, alternating current, flowing unison universe. dark matter has been discovered confirmed for the first time this year for warp bubble IT poles. What i am saying is that by definition we are warping both in and out of existence at once for alternating currents its only there if that you only know where to look. How I-on-Ic-R-R-? Polar Sonic. It is the best i can communicate that is humanely possible coniferous. Where, what when are ion('(s)) WHO. A Yo-Yo.(('s)), electric impulse. Matter and Time? Choice zero point energy. Vacuum State. Nature abhors vacuum An unfinished equation, there. Gravity = (universe, ground, signal, vacuum, space). anti-Matter. Roger, time))(matter).

f-(x y Z 0rR = A (A)) = a

I must apologize for it feels like a harmonious, frequency tone, that i cannot get out of my head. it is the most contemporary of my artistic expression, ficial. language intelligence is interconnected with genes, genes interconnected with the brain ionically and conscious is connected the brain to frequency tones strongly associated with color spectrum quantum entanglement, conscious universally awake reality interconnected and brain aka intelligence = matter dark matter - intelligence = gravity Universal gravity principle.

The prospective equation is providence over provenance and phonetically for okay alright time travels. Take it for what you will.

I'm 99% certain that plants can be grown using any accelerated particle (such as a electron) of equivalent momentum to a photon for the power source for photosynthesis.

Dropped Cat · Jun 2, 2019

Sam_Skunkman said:
Indigenous peoples worldwide were able to create high THC only varieties long before THC was even Identified.
They smoke any great looking plants and save the seeds for next year of the ones they liked best, after a few hundred years they will be mosly THC only varieties, like in Thailand and many other traditional Ganja producing areas.
Organoleptic analysis worked long before THC was discovered or known to be what gets you high in Cannabis.

-SamS

Lovely.

Sam, how would you characterize your thunk cultivar now,
given the time that has elapsed since its introduction.

Thank you, by the way.

You can have your choice, any yield product properly grown,
dry sift, bubble or well cured buds.

What would be your objective opinion of the product, I wonder.

St. Phatty · Jun 2, 2019

PDX Dopesmoker said:
I'm 99% certain that plants can be grown using any accelerated particle (such as a electron) of equivalent momentum to a photon for the power source for photosynthesis.

what about Frequency ?

The old guns on CRT TV's did spray electrons. Like a low power particle accelerator.

Also if you have a flow of electrons - then the plant is getting charged up.

I suspect that a combination of light-light and possibly sprayed electrons or other particles could "give the plant a smile."

Seems like there is a growing industry involving LED's for plants other than cannabis. Vertical Lettuce operations etc.

Efficiency is important and will be even more important in the future.

If you can get a bigger harvest by spraying who-knows-what, it would sure seem like something worth studying.

My guess is, if you look through libraries of past government grants, NASA studies etc, these kinds of experiments have been attempted.

But more (study of augmented or synthesized Light) is better.

White Beard · Jun 2, 2019

I’d be fascinated to hear someone else’s result from this.

PDX Dopesmoker · Jun 2, 2019

St. Phatty said:
what about Frequency ?

The old guns on CRT TV's did spray electrons. Like a low power particle accelerator.

Also if you have a flow of electrons - then the plant is getting charged up.

I suspect that a combination of light-light and possibly sprayed electrons or other particles could "give the plant a smile."

Seems like there is a growing industry involving LED's for plants other than cannabis. Vertical Lettuce operations etc.

Efficiency is important and will be even more important in the future.

If you can get a bigger harvest by spraying who-knows-what, it would sure seem like something worth studying.

My guess is, if you look through libraries of past government grants, NASA studies etc, these kinds of experiments have been attempted.

But more (study of augmented or synthesized Light) is better.

Right, but the vacuum in a CRT probably doesn't contain enough CO2 for the necessary photosynthesis chain of events to occur after the plant is stimulated by a quanta in the appropriate range of momentum. There are fields and subsets of fields of study which are completely ignored because of social pressure for whatever reason, the still unknown medical benefits of cannabis are a fantastic example, I looked into the electromagnetic botany stuff a little and most of what I found could be passed off as crackpot.

Can you tell me why a plant cell which can stimulated by a photon of a particular range of discreet momentums can't also be stimulated by any other free particle of equal momentum? The plants seem to be using the kinetic energy of individual, freely falling quanta from the sky to combine CO2 and water into carbohydrates so I don't think they care abut the nature of what it is that rings their bell, they only thing that should matter to them is that bell gets rung.

romanoweed · Jun 2, 2019

Im'One said:
I am just wondering how anyone knows what the africans or other indigenous peoples aee doing oe are capable of. We see this all the time qith so called experts who doubt the abilities of the people who are different from us. In my background i have seen numerous instances where white colonists doubted the technology and intelligence of the native americans only to find years later the so called experts were wrong.

Yes i agree. I wanted to point out, how possible it is, or seems that nature does a big part in creating Landrace Gemstones. I didnt have time to say "i imagine" .So yes , its possible, that people selected plants, wich are same like the Landrace, CAUSE they grow / express best in the local climate. True. I hear that about USA, every regin has different skunks and hases...

I want just show Possibilities.

I think Healthyness could be the big Reason, why we like Landraces. When i hear People have Landraces since 1000 Years, i would be astonished, if they are just one Wild plant inbreed for ever. We often hear Inbreeding with one Plant(-Line), as well outcrossing is highly problematic. I dont know if we ever managed to do this for ever. Natures wild plants could be the one wich live on forever Right? I atleast never heard a inbreeding Project, like some newer breeders do has ever created a Halllucinogen Plant out of a Weak Hay-Line. It may have increased numbers of good Phenos, but i never heard this creates Gemstone-Landraces.
I think for Creating Lndraces, you may need Healthyness. Thats what i meant LAndraces could need constant Exchange. What i mean with that? I mean you may never really need inbreeding in Landraces-Gemstonebreeding. You could perhaps have 2000 local Wildplants crossing themselve everytime they are breed further. You would never inbreed the exact same line. This way you eventuall wount have this single Landrace dying doo to inbreedingdepression.
And the existence of wild plants delivers the pure health, wich then never degrades while further breeding.. You just never inbreed.

So all this would be based on the initial collecting of Wild Plants, wich are unusual high in desired traits. And everytime you cross say a 1,3 procent thc wild plant to an other 1,3 procent thc wild plant, if average plant consist of 1,0 procent thc, then the ofspring might well reach 1, 6 procent thc.
Cross it again, and again to ANOTHER 1,3 procent local plant and voila! no inbreeding. No inbreeding depression, but heighten of THC-Level

Do it with 2000 initial wild plants, and it may be enough diverse to live forever.. without any wildplant reinput

Thats , what i thingk is a very possible Reciepe for LAndrace-Gemstones. PEace

1: Choose multiple unusual high-THC wildplants for further breeding out of a region
2: Never inbreed single Line, no , cross ever these multiple individuals, (in a endless round forever, if 2000 plants involved eventually)

romanoweed · Jun 2, 2019

Sam_Skunkman said:
if it is high THC it was made and maintained by man, wild races or escaped from cultivation landraces will not have high THC.
If escaped from mans drug cultivation they may have more THC than CBD, but the THC levels are not very high as that takes man to select and maintain without man nature will not select for high THC or even more THC than CBD for very long.

-SamS

Did you actually hear that some big biologists (if recall right) said : equatorial landraces are higher in thc cause of human selections than northern Landraces. I still dont get that statement. Do they wanna say most northern cultures did not select for strong(thc-rich) plants then? or is it just unshure in your eyes what they say?

I ever tought it means equatorial landraces are brought from mans Selectin-Seeds into the wilderness. So they emerge out of Human breeds, therefore are high-thc?

romanoweed · Jun 2, 2019

Mr. Greengenes said:
Just wanted to point out to OP that a tree shape does not represent a pedigree. A pedigree is perfectly symmetrical with each individual having two parents.

I know.. that was more a broad representation of a possible breding pattern. Meaning : every brach would rather represent a whole valley., and the tree beeing big as whole thailand per example. _Showing novelity , or outcrossvigour when crossing the last branch, aswell as how damages could assumably be fixed: trough adding another branch(another valleys breed), and the at the same time occuring shape. Just for helping the mind visualize, or imagine things

simmiauto · Jun 2, 2019

There is one grower who i've been following that has "1973 Santa Marta Colombian gold seeds" that he sent in to get the tissue culture and hopefully bring them back to life! that would be amazing to see.

Mr. Greengenes · Jun 3, 2019

Another point to consider is that inbreeding depression may not really be a thing in cannabis. It is possible to reduce variation to the point where improvement becomes difficult or impossible, but it's not the same predictably progressive degradation through the generations that you would see with a crop with thousands of years of inbreeding, like corn. Dioecious plants like cannabis are very difficult to even achieve reduced variation without backcrossing or self pollinating. Selfing does reduce variation in about the same way as most naturally selfing crops do, like tomatoes and peppers.

I've personally inbred a cannabis strain well past 10 generations (Cherry Bomb) with absolutely no signs of inbreeding depression. In fact, CB is known for vigorous growth and general resistance to disease.

romanoweed · Jun 3, 2019

Greengenes, thanks good info. yes

Is there any evidence with the 1000 year inbread corn? And is there evidence this heightend desired traits like size... harvest amount...
Still i dont just believe anything, but i kind of trust what youre saying

cool , please show abit more how they did it with corn, tomatos.. Thats exactly what intrests me!

romanoweed · Jun 3, 2019

otherwise you gave some nice keywords to google the breeding of older breeds!

OldCoolSativa · Jun 3, 2019

simmiauto said:
There is one grower who i've been following that has "1973 Santa Marta Colombian gold seeds" that he sent in to get the tissue culture and hopefully bring them back to life! that would be amazing to see.

I'm curious to know where he sent them and what the results are.

Sam_Skunkman · Jun 4, 2019

Cannabis is a Heterozygous Dioecious Obligate Outcrosser meaning if you self a cannabis plant it will within a few generations be so inbred that it will lose all vigor and have all kinds of troubles like not producing pollen or the pollen will be functionally sterile.
Cannabis suffers from inbreeding depression when selfed, we found that after 3-5 generations the cannabis plants were all but impossible to work with as a parent to produce viable seeds.
We used STS to self a single plant line repeatedly in our search to make single cannabinoid varieties, we did this with many lines and they all suffered loss of vigor and inbred depression.

-SamS

Mr. Greengenes said:
Another point to consider is that inbreeding depression may not really be a thing in cannabis. It is possible to reduce variation to the point where improvement becomes difficult or impossible, but it's not the same predictably progressive degradation through the generations that you would see with a crop with thousands of years of inbreeding, like corn. Dioecious plants like cannabis are very difficult to even achieve reduced variation without backcrossing or self pollinating. Selfing does reduce variation in about the same way as most naturally selfing crops do, like tomatoes and peppers.

I've personally inbred a cannabis strain well past 10 generations (Cherry Bomb) with absolutely no signs of inbreeding depression. In fact, CB is known for vigorous growth and general resistance to disease.

Landraces . Will we ever smoke what we once had? If no is there a Way back?

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