mazar I shariff RSC line roms

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Traditionally harvested when fully ripe to over-ripe, sometimes even as late as first half of December in the brutal Central Asian winter, Mazar-i-Sharif plants will enjoy cold conditions, including snow, and will turn a deep blood red in low temperatures. Expert hashish producers favour leaving harvest as late as possible[/FONT]

i've seen this posted in a few threads over the years
when i've searched for the optimal trichome look in threads on afghans, i haven't seen anything more specific
but if anyone here has specifics on afghan trichomes, love to hear it
there may not be anything further, but seems like a reasonable question

troutman said:

You can do both if you take clones of every plant.

1. Use the seed plants to make your open pollination and take a clone from each one.
2. While that is going on notice which ones are the best and save only those clones.
3. Then and use the best clones to make your IBL after your open pollination seed run is done.

Sound easy enough.

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Oh, indeed;

I plan to keep an open-pollination line of each landrace regardless, I'm just unsure about the best way to approach the beginnings of 1 or several different IBL'd families out of each of those genetics..

What you're saying makes sense, I guess I'm just looking for a little consensus lol

Much appreciate the opinion

@Roms - the Afghan Cannabis Surveys are surveys, based on field research, done by many people over many years, on the ground - same as the IHDC --- it's kind of the point

Roms said:

For example do you know the name of the farmer with whom you had the MIS seeds first import? Have you drunk tea with him and discussed your plans to sell their seeds? I think about Mriko for example who shared tons of seeds for free btw!

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I gave away thousands of the first batch Mazari seeds I bought back

and yes, I know the name of the merchant I obtained the seeds from, drank tea with him, and discussed that I planned to sell the seeds

totally mystified where you are going with all this - given that you have even discussed with me your commerical aspirations for the hybrids you are growing

also, the new Mazari reproductions are open-pollinated, not an IBL

anyway, the tone has got kind of nasty, so I will stay out of your thread once I've answered the other questions from people here

have a good one

Coughie said:

Do you have very much experience with the expressions in the reproduction run? I'm curious as to what might be found, been wondering which population might be more prevalent between the two sides of the effects.

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You need to ask Ellis about that.

The Mazari was obtained from a charas and seed merchant rather than direct from farmers. That is typically how the market works in Afghanistan, the former Tribal Agencies, and Peshawar. So this is one of a handful of strains that RSC sells for which I don't have direct experience of the plants in their land of origin. I first established that the seller had primo first garda, then obtained seeds from him.

Coughie said:

I remember reading somewhere, can't remember where though, that the quality of the hashish coming out of Afghanistan had changed over the years, and that the finer quality had become harder and harder to find; that the finer quality had been more 'sativa' in effect than what Westerners would call an 'indica' - that a majority of the hashish had gone from a mind-based high to a body-based high... is there any truth to that?

In either case, where might you say the majority of this MIS population falls in this sativa/head - to - indica/body sort of scale?

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Again, most of this is myth making from people who have no experience of the places. 2007, when I obtained the seeds, was a great year for charas. The Balkh and Mazar-i-Sharif region had a bumper harvest and there was loads of great garda and charas around.

My experience of smoking the charas there is that it could be descirbed as having a balance of both qualities. But frankly they aren't very useful categories for describing effects. If someone makes a big deal of these sativa/indica categories it is generally a pretty good sign that they haven't smoked traditional strains in their countries of origin tbh.

Roms said:

Well I don't think that books or modern historic theories have the real truth of things, since 67 years, 670, 6700 or 67 000 years!

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there probably isn't much to be gained from pursuing this discussion further, but for the benefit of anyone who is interested:

commercial production of the type that occurs in Afghanistan today post-dates the mid-1930s, following the shutdown of production in Xinjiang

ngakpa said:

the UNODC Afghan Cannabis Surveys are in my view the only reliable info we have on Afghanistan (in the same way the IHDC is some of the only reliable info there is on India)

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Can I ask you why you trust them so much!?

Actually I wouldnt trust people who promote the destruction of our holy plant .....well I think they make surveys to show us they do something.....

This is just my point of view....

Boom!

UNODC Supports the Eradication of Wild Cannabis in Kyrgyzstan

StRa said:

Can I ask you why you trust them so much!?

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it goes without saying that I am no fan of UNODC's agenda

but I would ask you a simple question: have you read the Afghan Cannabis Surveys?

they are just that: surveys

with the exception of the preface, they are just collections of field observations about cannabis and the cannabis economy in Afghanistan

the main finding from them is that cannabis is essential for the poorest farmers in Afghanistan and that it is a better source of income for them than opium

the only logical conclusion of the information they contain is that cannabis in Afghanistan should be legalised - it's not surprise that afaik they have stopped producing them

UNODC is what it is, a fucking terrible organisation currently run by a bunch of mafioso Kremlin politicians with ties to the Central Asian heroin trade

but in terms of the historical records and contemporary information UNODC is a goldmine of information

ngakpa said:

there probably isn't much to be gained from pursuing this discussion further, but for the benefit of anyone who is interested:

commercial production of the type that occurs in Afghanistan today post-dates the mid-1930s, following the shutdown of production in Xinjiang

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Cool we agree! But this 30s Afghani canna agriculture startin understood is a joke!

Well after little research, 5 min, here is the distribution of subgroups of Dravidian languages. Keralan languages roots...

With the funny little green zone in Pakistan..!

Btw re... https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7312852&postcount=83

hi Roms,

it's well known that the Mauryan Empire was that extensive - it was Buddhist, incidentally... but what has this got to do with cannabis exactly?

as for the Brahui language - again, that is an even more tenuous connection --- the language is generally thought to have reached there about 5 millenia ago... but so what? It means precisely fuck all so far as the origins of the Mazar-i-Sharif strain goes

if you want to talk about things which have a more than unbelievably tenuous connection to cannabis: there were Saivite shrines as far north as areas such as Balkh, which sadhus would visit on pilrimage prior to Partition

just so you're clear: even the habit of smoking charas had barely reached as far as UP in North India by the end of the 19th century (read the IHDC if you are genuinely interested)

it was viewed in India as an exotic Central Asian habit

in the same way, ganja smoking and cultivation belong in the tropics

these things are very clearly delineated by area

as for cannabis cultivation in Afghanistan: as said, the phenomenon of extensive large scale cannabis cultivation in Afghanistan began after the Chinese Nationalists shut down production in Xinjiang in the 1930s - this is all documented history

up to that point, Xinjiang was the world centre for hashish production (Greece was the other, for Egypt) because it was supplying the largest market in the world for cannabis products, namely India

most of this went to the heavily populated cities of North India - places such as Delhi, Lahore etc.

but even by the late 19th century charas smoking was seen as an exotic Central Asian vice in India... it had only really taken on in a major way as far east as the Punjab

the only other areas within India where it was common was the Himalaya, which is essentially the Central Asian frontier anyway

if you're really interested in this, why not read the history? - it's all there

ngakpa said:

it's well known that the Mauryan Empire was that extensive - it was Buddhist, incidentally... but what has this got to do with cannabis exactly?

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When a cultivate man move, he simply move his seeds with him. How cannabis made the tour of the planet in your opinion? With the wind? Sometimes yes but not to +2500m!...

So it's ok with your notions and knowledge no problem with that but it's just all about the 19/20th! And start of 30s glorious *uck of money to human mind and capitalism startin*uck the world. Before i think that the cannabis indica agriculture existed well in the Hindu kush since centuries and probably the same for Mazar i Shariff species Afghanica.
Another example Malana cream, Alexandre the Great probably helps for the seeds move? that's 326 BCE! So you understand for me that read our little modern history of cannabis industry does not interest me very much! It is antiquity that enjoy me and my time is devoted to other multiples things, too bad the time lost at school but you are right i will try to make efforts in this way! Peace

Mazari F3bx2 guerilla run from BZH!

Roms said:

When a cultivate man move, he simply move his seeds with him.

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I imagine people brought with them any seeds of value to wherever they roamed.
Back then there was no place to buy food. So leaving any seed types that was a
benefit to them behind would be careless.

Questions to those who have grown this line:

1. Do these Mazars have skunky aromas to them?
2. On a scale of 1 -10. How smelly are they?
3. Are short (1 meter phenotypes) common, if at all.

1 - Yes, like many "indica" cultivar native!
2 - 10
3 - Not common with MIS import from what i know, the line is usually more sativa stretchy ; by cons short specimens are common with my in breeding line.

Looking forward your next grow Troutman, good luck with them!

Roms said:

1 - Yes, like many "indica" cultivar native!
2 - 10
3 - Not common with MIS import from what i know, the line is usually more sativa stretchy ; by cons short specimens are common with my in breeding line.

Looking forward your next grow Troutman, good luck with them!

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Roms said 10 on the smell.

I wonder if running them under fairly dry conditions in poor soil would make them shorter?
I know lots of water and good soil will make trees. So the opposite should be true as well.
Also I wonder if drier and poorer soils make the plants more smelly?

For example: Where I live there's wild blueberries that grow on the mountains and they are
very flavorful despite being much smaller than cultivated blueberries. Cultivated blueberries
are larger and more bland tasting. No doubt from being watered and feed nutrients.

I think a side-by-side grow of Cannabis in rich and poor soils would reveal something similar
as the blueberries. Actually, I think all wild fruit taste better as a result of a harder lifestyle.

Another thing that I was wondering. As anyone ever run a soil analysis
of the locations where Cannabis grows in those far reaches of the World?

In grapes, a lot of the wine chemistry comes from the soil type.

Nice thoughts and thinking bro your project sounds goodgod!

About growing, watering etc yes and especially with the giant Mazar! (Afghanica)

Canna in itself adapted to the difficult conditions of altitude, UltraViolet and poor soil. Also dwarfism, large pale for compensating the surface of leaves and especially more resin for hard sun of high mountains over 2000m. (Kafiristanica)

troutman said:

(...)

Another thing that I was wondering. As anyone ever run a soil analysis
of the locations where Cannabis grows in those far reaches of the World?

In grapes, a lot of the wine chemistry comes from the soil type.

Click to expand...

Excellent considerations bro i think equal and the bridge to wine is essential! Human hand and culture with them since longtime!
By hoping more landrace and cultivar studies all around in near future! Vibes Troutman!


Here's another F3bx2 specimen near my SPG*MangoHaze x Swazi Rooi present repro!

++

Roms said:

When a cultivate man move, he simply move his seeds with him. How cannabis made the tour of the planet in your opinion? With the wind? Sometimes yes but not to +3000m!...

So it's ok with your notions and knowledge no problem with that but it's just all about the 19/20th! And start of 30s glorious *uck of money to human mind and capitalism startin*uck the world. Before i think that the cannabis indica agriculture existed well in the Hindu kush since centuries and probably the same for Mazar i Shariff species Afghanica.
Another example Malana cream, Alexandre the Great probably helps for the seeds move? that's 326 BCE! So you understand for me that read our little modern history of cannabis industry does not interest me very much! It is antiquity that enjoy me and my time is devoted to other multiples things, too bad the time lost at school but you are right i will try to make efforts in this way! Peace

Click to expand...

It's schmafghanica, mate, not afghanica. And schmafiristanica, ok?

Anyway, I think we can safely say that Alexander definitely didn't bring cannabis to the Himalaya from Macedonia. It was very likely already growing wild/feral in the region, thuogh not widely cultivated as it is now.

My guess is that cannabis cultivation for charas in the Himalaya probably only really became widespread in the way it is now from about the 16th century, during the Mughal era. Iirc the pollen record suggests that. It makes sense if you look at Mughal cannabis culture, with "cultured" Mughal men smoking charas with tobacco from about that era. Point is, it was being driven by the emergence of tobacco.

If you are interested in the Classical Era:

There was likely cannabis consumption (and presumably cultivation) in Thrace by the time of Alexander, and there definitely was in Scythia. But it was certainly a practice that had been introduced from Asia as these nomadic tribes such as the Getae migrated west onto the Pontic-Caspian Steppe due to the grazing pressure their herds were under. The point is that the Scythians and similar tribes all migrated out of Central Asia into the fringes of Europe around the Black Sea. They brought the practice of smoking cannabis with them.

So, that's the direction of travel: cannabis consuming groups moving through areas where cannabis grows spontaneously, from Central Asia outwards. The same is more than likely to be the case with the movement of cannabis culture southwards from Central Asia to India, rather than groups bringing cultivars from the tropics northwards in the way you imagine.

And I think maybe you've misunderstood what I wrote about Afghanistan.

Of course cannabis was cultivated in the Hindu Kush long before the modern era. This relates to exactly the point you seem to miss: all the historical movements suggests that Central Asia is the point from which the culture of cannabis consumption has emerged.

In the Middle East during the Medieval Muslim era (c. 12 century onwards) it was held to be Sufis who introduced the practice from Central Asia. Similarly, there are plenty of indications (linguistic, cultural) that cannabis culture in India is of Central Asian origin.

But what moves is the habit, not the seeds. In terms of the movement of genetics: anywhere north of the tropics within the Eurasian landmass, the clear indication is that historically cannabis has followed people, rather than people moving cannabis seeds from place to place. This is the view of Vavilov and others: cannabis has been domesticated multiple times in multiple different places. This is why there is so much biodiversity to the species.

If you look at India, cannabis only grows wild basically anywhere north of the Ganges. As soon as you get south of the Ganges, cannabis grows only because it is sown as a ganja crop. The only phenomenon that matches the way you imagine things to be, with people deliberately moving seeds from place to place, is when organised groups like Naxals or 'ganja mafia' commission fields and seeds are supplied. That way you end up with Idukki genetics (Kerala) being grown in places like Andhra etc. In that way, seeds do move around. But that's a modern thing. Otherwise, the historical pattern has been that each area - and sometimes literally each village - has its own cultivar.

http://www.iflscience.com/editors-b...iscovered-the-worlds-first-marijuana-dealers/

"5,000 years before dodgy dealers on street corners and dispensaries, the Yamnaya people might have been the world’s first weed traders, according to a new study into the archaeology and history of marijuana.

Researchers from the German Archaeological Institute and the Free University of Berlin looked at archaeological and environmental records of cannabis fibers and pollen across Europe and East Asia. Their interpretation of this analysis revealed the controversial claim that marijuana was not first domesticated in China or Central Asia.

They actually discovered that cannabis was being used across Europe and East Asia sometime between 11,500 and 10,200 years ago. However, according to this study, it was not widely traded until the Yamnaya nomads stepped onto the scene some 5,000 years ago.

The Yamnaya migrated into central Europe from the elevated ridge of the eastern Steppe region near modern-day Ukraine and Russia. These nomadic people had many uses for cannabis, from using hemp fibers to make rope and textiles to its medicinal properties, and, of course, getting high. There were also fervent traders, believed to have established a transcontinental trade route stretching the length of Europe to East Asia and across and over the Steppe.

Around the time they were trading, there appeared to be a boom in marijuana in East Asia around 5,000 years ago, at the start of the Bronze Age, which the researchers do not believe was a coincidence. Their analysis seems to point to the theory that the Yamnaya’s trade empire involved a fair amount of cannabis that came across from Europe to Asia, Discovery News reports.

"Cannabis's multiple usability might have made it an ideal candidate for being a 'cash crop before cash', a plant that is cultivated primarily for exchange purpose," Tengwen Long, one of the researchers, told Discovery News."

Very interesting

I think that's very difficult to estimate what proportion of those "travelling seeds" did have in the cannabis breeding and lineage of these regions.

According to Ngakpa, I'm pretty sure that is a modern way to do because even if some of theses old farmers had the conscious that they had a special strain, i think they made lots of hybrid with strains from the land they moved in.
The influence with the years, the number of strains... think about that farmers was not the most travellers persons, especially during antiquity.

But it might have an exception to this, well noticed by Roms about the Kings and Powerful mens from this time, looking for collecting and improvising strains. We did it in Europe since our first travel to exotic islands, always financed by rich and important mentors. But it was not before the 15th century. There may have possibilties that Civilizations from Asia did it before, according to the knowledge they had compared to any others in the World at theses times.

Ngakpa → I looked for the texts you mentionned but i did not find them. Do you have links please ?

Water- said:

https://www.iflscience.com/editors-...iscovered-the-worlds-first-marijuana-dealers/

"5,000 years before dodgy dealers on street corners and dispensaries, the Yamnaya people might have been the world’s first weed traders, according to a new study into the archaeology and history of marijuana.

Researchers from the German Archaeological Institute and the Free University of Berlin looked at archaeological and environmental records of cannabis fibers and pollen across Europe and East Asia. Their interpretation of this analysis revealed the controversial claim that marijuana was not first domesticated in China or Central Asia.

They actually discovered that cannabis was being used across Europe and East Asia sometime between 11,500 and 10,200 years ago. However, according to this study, it was not widely traded until the Yamnaya nomads stepped onto the scene some 5,000 years ago.

The Yamnaya migrated into central Europe from the elevated ridge of the eastern Steppe region near modern-day Ukraine and Russia. These nomadic people had many uses for cannabis, from using hemp fibers to make rope and textiles to its medicinal properties, and, of course, getting high. There were also fervent traders, believed to have established a transcontinental trade route stretching the length of Europe to East Asia and across and over the Steppe.

Around the time they were trading, there appeared to be a boom in marijuana in East Asia around 5,000 years ago, at the start of the Bronze Age, which the researchers do not believe was a coincidence. Their analysis seems to point to the theory that the Yamnaya’s trade empire involved a fair amount of cannabis that came across from Europe to Asia, Discovery News reports.

"Cannabis's multiple usability might have made it an ideal candidate for being a 'cash crop before cash', a plant that is cultivated primarily for exchange purpose," Tengwen Long, one of the researchers, told Discovery News."

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hi - yes, this paper seems to have been inspired by a suggestion Sherratt made years ago - thanks for reminding me to check it out

btw this article you've quoted (not the paper itself) misrepresents the Yamnaya as being "European"... iirc the heart of their region was the Pontic-Caspian steppe and the Caucasus, which is basically the internal Eurasian frontier... Central Eurasia, not Central Europe... it's the same region in which Herodotus later observed the Scythians smoking cannabis

so it's misleading to describe this as an export from Europe... if this trade happened at all, which I am skeptical about... though I should check out this paper before I comment further

Rastak' said:

Very interesting

I think that's very difficult to estimate what proportion of those "travelling seeds" did have in the cannabis breeding and lineage of these regions.

According to Ngakpa, I'm pretty sure that is a modern way to do because even if some of theses old farmers had the conscious that they had a special strain, i think they made lots of hybrid with strains from the land they moved in.
The influence with the years, the number of strains... think about that farmers was not the most travellers persons, especially during antiquity.

But it might have an exception to this, well noticed by Roms about the Kings and Powerful mens from this time, looking for collecting and improvising strains. We did it in Europe since our first travel to exotic islands, always financed by rich and important mentors. But it was not before the 15th century. There may have possibilties that Civilizations from Asia did it before, according to the knowledge they had compared to any others in the World at theses times.

Ngakpa → I looked for the texts you mentionned but i did not find them. Do you have links please ?

Click to expand...

Hi Rastak',

I am not sure what "travelling seeds" you are referring to

Afghanistan and the former NWFP region of Pakistan has a seed market

in Thailand, Laos, and Cambodia seeds are supplied for commissioned grows

the same is true of tropical India to some extent

but that's about it

in terms of the more distant past, cannabis appears to have been domesticated at multiple different times in different places

I don't see much basis for the idea that cannabis growers were carrying seeds about with them --- particularly as farmers don't move about like that

nomads do, however - but nomads were found in areas where cannabis grows wild i.e. Central Asia and the Eurasian frontier

which books is it that you can't find?

the Indian Hemp Drugs Commission and the Afghan Cannabis Surveys are online

just to be clear: many seeds have been transported between regions as ganja - as between Angola and Brazil, and India and the Caribbean - but this was a trade in ganja, the transport of seeds was incidental...