Can Not Shake This Calcium Deficiency/Lockout For The Life Of Me!! Why???

If it comes down to it, you could also boil a big pot of water over a little propane camping stove to save yourself some space and money on the trouble shooting, unless cooling is an issue in your room which I’m assuming it’s not since you are already running burners.



These keep my 3x3’s saturated to ~1000ppm with a pencil burner on a barely visible pilot. Been using different iterations for years.

Vanilla Phoenix said:

Have you tried turning the plants off and then back on again? Sometimes you gotta reboot them plants

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i' m sorry for abusing this thread but what does this exactly mean "turn plants off and back on"?

Bobby Boucher said:

If it comes down to it, you could also boil a big pot of water over a little propane camping stove to save yourself some space and money on the trouble shooting, unless cooling is an issue in your room which I’m assuming it’s not since you are already running burners.

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=77032&pictureid=1924019&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

These keep my 3x3’s saturated to ~1000ppm with a pencil burner on a barely visible pilot. Been using different iterations for years.

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Well bottom line is that I need to clear up the pythium in my veg area first. Once fully healthy again it will be much easier for me to tell if their is a co2 problem or not in the shop.

Putting in sick and diseased plants out there and then blaming issues on co2 and etc just isn't a practical way of problem solving imho.

andl said:

i' m sorry for abusing this thread but what does this exactly mean "turn plants off and back on"?

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He was just kidding around lol. Just a joke, it means nothing.

haha ok, got it sorry LOL*stupid*

Oh, yeah I’m not trying to tell you in which order you should troubleshoot. If you know you have Pythium, changing co2 sources ain’t gonna fix it, lol..

Just sayin, it’s a useful trick to know if you are running sealed and your equipment breaks down or whatever.

Bobby Boucher said:

Oh, yeah I’m not trying to tell you in which order you should troubleshoot. If you know you have Pythium, changing co2 sources ain’t gonna fix it, lol..

Just sayin, it’s a useful trick to know if you are running sealed and your equipment breaks down or whatever.

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Ah k, I see. Thx for the tip.

Broken record alert. Buy some Dutch Master Zone and thank me later.

Shit is nuclear. Bombastic. Easy to implement. No guess work.

Just don’t touch it or smell it.

Bobby Boucher said:

Broken record alert. Buy some Dutch Master Zone and thank me later.

Shit is nuclear. Bombastic. Easy to implement. No guess work.

Just don’t touch it or smell it.

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I live in Canada so it's tough to get here. Heard good things about it though.

Right now I'm rocking the bennie route. Things are heading in the right direction now but sure is a slow process unfortunately.

Honestly, I phased out zone in favor of Heisenberg tea this round. Shit is pretty nuclear according to the msds.

From what I can gather, if everything starts turning back to muck on your end, pool shock should be equally nuclear. I think it was snype who wrote up the proper dilution ratios somewhere around these parts.

GL. Wishing you the best. Went like.. 18 months without a harvest a few years back trying to resolve similar issues. I know the feels.

Sucks.

Bobby Boucher said:

Honestly, I phased out zone in favor of Heisenberg tea this round. Shit is pretty nuclear according to the msds.

From what I can gather, if everything starts turning back to muck on your end, pool shock should be equally nuclear. I think it was snype who wrote up the proper dilution ratios somewhere around these parts.

GL. Wishing you the best. Went like.. 18 months without a harvest a few years back trying to resolve similar issues. I know the feels.

Sucks.

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I tried h202 but totally did nothing. Gonna stick with bennies for now since i can actually see improvements. Expensive as fuck though.

I plan to take some cuttings this week and going to avoid putting them in the same res as the infected ones.

I'll clean and bleach the shit out the equipment and res's before putting them in there. Hopefully I can just phase it out that way.

And yes, 18 months with no crops sucks fucking balls lol.

Hey Rabbi what's up ? I just saw this thread and I would like to throw in my 2 cents. Only because I battled the exact same problem.
Like you I have been growing for decades. For the last 5 years I have been growing with LPA ( low pressure areoponics ). In the sea of green. I have 4 areo. systems. Each system has 2 24 site grow chambers with one res. On a 2 week rotation. Harvest 48 plants every 2 weeks.
I keep 3 mothers, 3 different strains. I clone everything with areo cloners. Once clones root they go straight to 12/12. No veg. So now you know my set up.
So 3 years ago I changed all my mothers to 3 different strains. GSC, Blueberry, & a White Jack. I took 24 GSC clones & 24 blueberry once rooted straight into 12/12 at 6.1 ph and 1200 ppm. One week later every things normal. The next week I put the next 48 into 12/12 which were gsc & w.j. This is when I noticed that the blueberry were having a little problem. With in the next week the blueberry looked exactly like your pictures.
I was like W.T.F. Oh well cal-mag. prob. right ? WRONG................................
Now the next week when I put the next 48 into the rotation. The blues are looking sorry, but still growing and the 24 gsc which are on the same res. are cool. So I up the cal-mag a little right ? WRONG.......................
Oh the third 48 that went to 12/12 were blues & w.j. So now I'm at 4 weeks into the first 48 & 2 weeks into the second 48. And now the w.j. in the second 48 are starting to do the same thing but the g.s.c. are cool. Up the cal-mag. right ? WRONG..............
Also at this point my Co2 does not come into the picture. It was not even a option. In my opinion that's way out there.
Anyway I'm going on here way to long SORRY...................
So I go through the whole rotation and everything I have tried is not working. But what blew me away is with everything I tried the G.S.C were still cool. W.T.F. right ?
Yes I will move on SORRY.
So now I am half way into my next rotation. And I am changing the nutes and cleaning all the res. When I am mixing up the new nutes I think W.T.F. I am going to lower my ph to 5.7 and the ppm to 800. It cant hurt. Right ?
So the next night the blues & the W.J.s looked a little happier.
The next night (48 hours later ) all the new growth on the blues & W.J. showed NO probs.
I have gone through 5 rotations since with no probs.
And after everything I tried those G.S.C were cool, I love that strain.
Well that's my 10 cents, sorry about that Rabbi.
GOOD LUCK and stay high............................................................

NUGneighbor said:

Hey Rabbi what's up ? I just saw this thread and I would like to throw in my 2 cents. Only because I battled the exact same problem.
Like you I have been growing for decades. For the last 5 years I have been growing with LPA ( low pressure areoponics ). In the sea of green. I have 4 areo. systems. Each system has 2 24 site grow chambers with one res. On a 2 week rotation. Harvest 48 plants every 2 weeks.
I keep 3 mothers, 3 different strains. I clone everything with areo cloners. Once clones root they go straight to 12/12. No veg. So now you know my set up.
So 3 years ago I changed all my mothers to 3 different strains. GSC, Blueberry, & a White Jack. I took 24 GSC clones & 24 blueberry once rooted straight into 12/12 at 6.1 ph and 1200 ppm. One week later every things normal. The next week I put the next 48 into 12/12 which were gsc & w.j. This is when I noticed that the blueberry were having a little problem. With in the next week the blueberry looked exactly like your pictures.
I was like W.T.F. Oh well cal-mag. prob. right ? WRONG................................
Now the next week when I put the next 48 into the rotation. The blues are looking sorry, but still growing and the 24 gsc which are on the same res. are cool. So I up the cal-mag a little right ? WRONG.......................
Oh the third 48 that went to 12/12 were blues & w.j. So now I'm at 4 weeks into the first 48 & 2 weeks into the second 48. And now the w.j. in the second 48 are starting to do the same thing but the g.s.c. are cool. Up the cal-mag. right ? WRONG..............
Also at this point my Co2 does not come into the picture. It was not even a option. In my opinion that's way out there.
Anyway I'm going on here way to long SORRY...................
So I go through the whole rotation and everything I have tried is not working. But what blew me away is with everything I tried the G.S.C were still cool. W.T.F. right ?
Yes I will move on SORRY.
So now I am half way into my next rotation. And I am changing the nutes and cleaning all the res. When I am mixing up the new nutes I think W.T.F. I am going to lower my ph to 5.7 and the ppm to 800. It cant hurt. Right ?
So the next night the blues & the W.J.s looked a little happier.
The next night (48 hours later ) all the new growth on the blues & W.J. showed NO probs.
I have gone through 5 rotations since with no probs.
And after everything I tried those G.S.C were cool, I love that strain.
Well that's my 10 cents, sorry about that Rabbi.
GOOD LUCK and stay high............................................................

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Damn dude, totally feel your pain there.

Did you have root rot issues too or no? I don't even have plants out in flower anymore, totally consumed by root rot. Hardly any in veg either now.

I just tossed in some cuttings the other day that I'm taking a shot at while I wait for my new seedlings to grow. But they're from infected mothers so I would need to see a day and night difference in them from now up until my seedlings are bigger to actually keep moving forward with them.

Trying the sterile route this time(tried the bennie route already). Pretty sure it's a not coincidence that I've never seen root rot once in the city but never have not seen it since moving to the country. I'm guessing the city chlorine was probably saving my ass for many, many years and I had no idea.

Rabbi said:

Damn dude, totally feel your pain there.

Did you have root rot issues too or no? I don't even have plants out in flower anymore, totally consumed by root rot. Hardly any in veg either now.

I just tossed in some cuttings the other day that I'm taking a shot at while I wait for my new seedlings to grow. But they're from infected mothers so I would need to see a day and night difference in them from now up until my seedlings are bigger to actually keep moving forward with them.

Trying the sterile route this time(tried the bennie route already). Pretty sure it's a not coincidence that I've never seen root rot once in the city but never have not seen it since moving to the country. I'm guessing the city chlorine was probably saving my ass for many, many years and I had no idea.

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PM me what did you figure out? Root rot?

If using h202 I have read that it must be added twice a week at up to 1 table spoon per gallon. I am doing about 1/2 that in my aero cloner and hydro rez. My plants are fine now. I had a pump that was nearly dead and wasn't ebbing.....

Rabbi said:

Damn dude, totally feel your pain there.

Did you have root rot issues too or no? I don't even have plants out in flower anymore, totally consumed by root rot. Hardly any in veg either now.

I just tossed in some cuttings the other day that I'm taking a shot at while I wait for my new seedlings to grow. But they're from infected mothers so I would need to see a day and night difference in them from now up until my seedlings are bigger to actually keep moving forward with them.

Trying the sterile route this time(tried the bennie route already). Pretty sure it's a not coincidence that I've never seen root rot once in the city but never have not seen it since moving to the country. I'm guessing the city chlorine was probably saving my ass for many, many years and I had no idea.

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Still haven't checked if C02 is the problem, huh?

beta said:

Still haven't checked if C02 is the problem, huh?

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I did run fresh air in there actually and no, it did not fix my root rot issues(although I didn't expect it too).

I don't know why you're so hung up on the co2. It's not a co2 issue. I don't even use co2 in my veg and all those plants eventually died from root rot disease as well. And no, it wasn't because they didn't have enough co2. I almost never use co2 in veg.

I'm going to try running a sterile rez(pool shock) on those cuttings for about a week or so and if that doesn't work(i assume it likely won't) then I'm going to toss out all the infected plants, clean the shit out everything, disinfect everything and start all over from seeds.

Lot of work a head of me but think this is what needs to be done. Then I need to do everything I can to prevent it coming back. Cause once a guy has a bad root rot disease it's damn near impossible to get rid of. Prevention is definitely the key there.

LostTribe said:

PM me what did you figure out? Root rot?

If using h202 I have read that it must be added twice a week at up to 1 table spoon per gallon. I am doing about 1/2 that in my aero cloner and hydro rez. My plants are fine now. I had a pump that was nearly dead and wasn't ebbing.....

Click to expand...

I tried h202 but it didn't help. I'm trying the pool shock now but not holding my breath on that one either. Nothing to lose by trying though, while I wait for my seedlings to get bigger. Just have to be careful not to accidentally cross contaminate.

Based on what I see in your first posts, you are over feeding your plants in my opinion.

Under and over feeding can look the same on leaves. Looking at your crown leaves curling up you are def giving her too much EC, or your medium is drying up too much between waterings causing EC/PH issues.

LAION said:

Based on what I see in your first posts, you are over feeding your plants in my opinion.

Under and over feeding can look the same on leaves. Looking at your crown leaves curling up you are def giving her too much EC, or your medium is drying up too much between waterings causing EC/PH issues.

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Before figuring out I had a bad root disease I tried many different levels of EC(high, low, none) and even tried several different nutrient brands. The problem turned out to be nutrient lock out, due to rotting roots.

Rabbi. ya the bene route doesnt always work. it does work well after you get everything in check.

i was in the same boat. i cut back all flower rooms to nothing.

i took as many as i could an turned into moms. (smaller containers till u know they are healthy, plus u wanna monitor dry downs. large containers take too long, half gallon or 1 gallon containers. for all u know u maybe wasting medium when you throw the plant out cause it isnt healhty) i treated the moms with banrot( yes its ornamental only). treated feedings with pool shock always an occasionally hydrogen peroxide w/ peracetic acid. Of like 25 Different genetics i lost only one. but there was a hell of a learning curve on knowing with the hydrogen peroxide peracetic acid. i lost alot of mothers. but after a few treatments things began to rebound.

few generations of clones later with no banrot, things seem to be on 75% on track. i run a good amount of plants an i have maybe 500 containers so i dont expect to get everything in one shot...



the pool shock. i take 68% hypochlrite powder an weigh out 45 grams to one gallon ro. i then administer that stock solution at 3 mill per gallon , 2 mill per gallon, or 1 mill per gallon. Free chlorine will be absorbed an deposited like calcium in the the leaves. it will then evaporate in the cell an destroy the cell leaving marks just like heavy cal def. thats when i know to start lowering the mill per gallon.

simply put, If the free chlorine is occupied in the water, or the rootzone, it will be less absorbed. so if your feeding 3mpg an dont see cal spotting theres activity preventing the chlorine from making it to the roots.

Banrot 40WP i measured in at 1 mill per gallon, 2 feedings in a row. then waited 2 weeks or so with another follow up 2 treatments. after 2 treatments moms began to get healthy again. i had lesions an bark forming where fungi once occupied the main stalk. i have some sick stalk photos i should upload


after those clones where taken i stopped the banrot. a few generations later the clones should be clean an free from the systemic fungicide.


2 ingredients in banrot

Etridazole
https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.2903/j.efsa.2010.1823

Thiophanate-methyl
https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.2903/j.efsa.2018.5133

again, i would only use the banrot to get the moms healthy to take fungal free clones. then banrot would not be used. every watering chlorine is added an possibly alternate feedings with hydrogen peroxide. i cant give a ratio for hydrogen peroxide since it depends on the peracetic acid as well. i uses peragreen 15, bioside 15, it is 7 times stronger then zerotol. therefore a $220 5 gallon container will last 7 times as long as 1 5-gallon zertol. but last i looked zerotol was 2% peracetic acid an like $120 for a one gallon. so it saves a lot of moeny when you do the math...

all irrigation lines replaced. pumps,fittings, ph pens, soaked scrubbed in bleach. then removed an soaked in SEPERATE hydrogen peroxide peracetic acid solution. when chlorine an hydrogen are mixed together in concentrate it will off gas something fierce. u can do light concentrations together, but there is a fine line....





after the chlorine feedings an plants get into flower i then start using Rootshield plus granules an recharge. i kinda look at it like growing mushrooms. sterilize the medium, once the rootzone is sterile an happy then inoculate with the bacteria YOU WANT.

hand water an take note whos drinking an whos not. maybe cull they slow ones an allow the healthier ones to take over. never take a clone from an iffy mother. toss it. use disposable rubber/latex nitrile type gloves. get multiple containers of rubbing alcohol an wipe gloves often.

do not recirculate nutes. make sure run off doesnt interfere with container to container
flip the plants over an remove the container. roots brown, your fucking up somewhere. roots white an searching your on your way to happy town.