Asiatica
Active member
Just simple convo...
Just simple convo...
Great Thread!
Been a fan for awhile.
Still have a pack of C99 f1's somewhere....
Here is a conversation I copied from OG or CW? I dont rememba..lol
Anyways here ya goes, ENJOY!!!
Mr Soul
When I breed, I consider it the male's "job" to contribute the genetics of the strain of which he is a
member. I mix the pollen from ALL the healthy males of a particular strain into one vial and pollinate a
chosen female. By doing so, I guarantee the most diverse group of genes representing the male's strain
are transfered to the female.
If you pollinate with a SINGLE male, you are only passing on a limited selection of the total possible
genes of his strain. Since males are not the intended "product" of our gardens, it's meaningless to try to
evaluate them by smoking them. The best possible outcome of choosing males based on their potency
would be the creation of a seedline that produces POTENT MALES...is that what you're breeding for?
I'm not.
Vic High
Hahaha we got a good one going here don't we. haha Ya your right mrsoul, my method would be a pipe
dream in this case but after looking at what I've seen being offered in the way of strains and the poor
breeding practices that went into creating them I feel that there is a need for some of us to go back to
the book and quit taking the shortcuts.
As for the selection of the male, lets compramise(sp?). The male can be selected for many traits other
than potency. Let's face it we already have some pretty potent pot. Why not have our males come from
a line that we already know is potent. Often we are now looking for other traits such as yield, growth
habits and the biggie for me, flavour. Also, often traits are somewhat linked. Like say the most potent
females are ????say purple??? for sake of argument. We would obviously pick males that are the most
purple along with having all the other desireable traits that we want. With common sense, worrying
about which male is the most potent is not something to loose sleep over as long as you use more than
one male and you have a good genetic foundation.
Crane
I'm sorry but I also agree with mrsoul about the inportance of genetic diversity. It's too easy to
accidently select for an undesirable trait with inbreeding or small gene pools. BC has the largest
clearcut in the world simply because they accidently bred the susceptibility of a bark beetle into the
entire line that was planted in a particular area. The beetles had a field day and drilled to their hearts
content. If you don't like my forestry analogy then consider our pets. So many dog breeds are prone to
deformities (like hip displacia) because of poor breeding. Even with certified breeding they can't seem
to get rid of it. It would be heart breaking to breed the perfect "kong" strain and then have an unknown
virus wipe it out simply because there was not enough genetic diversity for some to survive.
I fully agree VH with your comments about linked traits, enough potency already and greater interest in
taste. I'd add to that high type or quality. I simply can't understand why anyone wants pot that knocks
you off your feet with one bong hit and makes you stupid and sedated for 12-24 hours. It like some
macho competition "MORE POWER!!!!". Hit each other in the head with a hammer in you want to fall
down... smoke pot to get HIGH not down.
Vic high
To explain my methods is going to take a bit so please bear with me.
First of all I work on a perpetual harvest system where I harvest, start flowering, and clone every week.
At most times I have clones from each mother that I wish to breed along with my production crop.
After selecting the males I wish to keep I hold them in the veg room. Once every week one of them goes
into the flower room. When it's close to bursting I move it to a private room that I call the sex room.
Here I obtain the pollen and then go to the bud room, turn off the fans and then using a small artists
brush I brush the pollen onto a few lower buds of of each of the mothers that wish to breed. I then tag
the branch.
I'm able to repeat the process every week or two and therefore can go through many matings in a year. I
also mist the walls, ceiling and floor of the room between males to kill any lingering pollen that may be
lingering. The problem comes when I have all those seedlings to assess. This is the part that slows me
down. It's often challanging striking a balance between my main production clones and growing out the
seedlings.
I also believe in keeping two or more distinct lines that that can on occasion be crossed to take
advantage of hybrid vigour. I'm going to do this with my blueberry. I purchased seeds on two seperate
occasions and plan to keep their two lines seperate. They actually appear different in that the second
batch has wider and more blunt leaves. Curious.
MrSoul
Well, I'm truly pleased to have the intelligent discussion that developed on this important topic. It's just
the sort of discourse that would be taking place on the HBC S/G page if not for Voltaire's observation,
"The masses are asses" being so true.
Crane, I'm very happy to have your opinions adding to mine and VH's, you have my respect; you're a
gentleman and a scholar. I actually agree with most of what you say and in an ideal world we'd be doing
things more in line with yours and Vic's methods. I think by revealing my GOAL when breeding an f1
hybrid from two different strains (which isn't the same goal as in my "cubing the clone" of
Princess...that's another matter) I will explain why I breed as I do:
With my space limitations, I can flower no more than 40 seedlings when I grow out a batch of seeds, so
I am starting about 80 seeds when I do. These numbers are awfully small for breeding selection to be
done correctly. That's the reason why I prefer to have the seeds be the result of pollination by ALL the
males; there're going to be some that came from the best male, even if I didn't "pick" him out of the
"line-up".
When the seedlings are grown, my goal is to find the ONE or TWO best females to keep as clone
mothers to represent the cross. I usually mix pollen from no more than 10 males, so let's assume that
10% of the seed is the product of "the best" male. Then when I evaluate my 40 female seedlings (50%
of the 80 I started with), 4 of them will be his. That's enough for me to have my clone mothers from the
very first group of seedlings instead of growing & evaluating many groups of seedlings, each from a
different male...although I do lose the ID of the resonsible male.
With that in mind, I propose an improvement to my method, thanks to your comments: It would be
better to pollinate selected branches of the chosen female, each with the pollen of a different male (one
from each stud) and tag the branches accordingly. The seeds would then be labeled, kept separate, and
when grown out, only a small number of seeds (8 in my case) from each male would be combined to
make up my 80 starts. This would allow me to ID the responsible male when the superior group of
seedlings is identified. Once identified, he could then be used to mass-pollinate the selected female for
a HUGE batch of "superior" seeds.
The problem is that I don't have the space to keep clones of the males in veg, while I evaluate their
offspring. I admit that if my goal were to create a seedline, keeping the males would be
ESSENTIAL...otherwise, once the best father was identified, he'd no longer be around to perform "stud
service". So, you see that what I'm doing presently reflects my goal of creating a single MOTHER for
future propagation via CLONES, as opposed to creating a seedline.
Thanks so much to all for the stimulating discussion. I'm proud of the mature way we debated each
other...let's keep it up.
ONLY FOR THE TRUE HEADS.
Peace and positive vibes.
Just simple convo...
Great Thread!
Been a fan for awhile.
Still have a pack of C99 f1's somewhere....
Here is a conversation I copied from OG or CW? I dont rememba..lol
Anyways here ya goes, ENJOY!!!
Mr Soul
When I breed, I consider it the male's "job" to contribute the genetics of the strain of which he is a
member. I mix the pollen from ALL the healthy males of a particular strain into one vial and pollinate a
chosen female. By doing so, I guarantee the most diverse group of genes representing the male's strain
are transfered to the female.
If you pollinate with a SINGLE male, you are only passing on a limited selection of the total possible
genes of his strain. Since males are not the intended "product" of our gardens, it's meaningless to try to
evaluate them by smoking them. The best possible outcome of choosing males based on their potency
would be the creation of a seedline that produces POTENT MALES...is that what you're breeding for?
I'm not.
Vic High
Hahaha we got a good one going here don't we. haha Ya your right mrsoul, my method would be a pipe
dream in this case but after looking at what I've seen being offered in the way of strains and the poor
breeding practices that went into creating them I feel that there is a need for some of us to go back to
the book and quit taking the shortcuts.
As for the selection of the male, lets compramise(sp?). The male can be selected for many traits other
than potency. Let's face it we already have some pretty potent pot. Why not have our males come from
a line that we already know is potent. Often we are now looking for other traits such as yield, growth
habits and the biggie for me, flavour. Also, often traits are somewhat linked. Like say the most potent
females are ????say purple??? for sake of argument. We would obviously pick males that are the most
purple along with having all the other desireable traits that we want. With common sense, worrying
about which male is the most potent is not something to loose sleep over as long as you use more than
one male and you have a good genetic foundation.
Crane
I'm sorry but I also agree with mrsoul about the inportance of genetic diversity. It's too easy to
accidently select for an undesirable trait with inbreeding or small gene pools. BC has the largest
clearcut in the world simply because they accidently bred the susceptibility of a bark beetle into the
entire line that was planted in a particular area. The beetles had a field day and drilled to their hearts
content. If you don't like my forestry analogy then consider our pets. So many dog breeds are prone to
deformities (like hip displacia) because of poor breeding. Even with certified breeding they can't seem
to get rid of it. It would be heart breaking to breed the perfect "kong" strain and then have an unknown
virus wipe it out simply because there was not enough genetic diversity for some to survive.
I fully agree VH with your comments about linked traits, enough potency already and greater interest in
taste. I'd add to that high type or quality. I simply can't understand why anyone wants pot that knocks
you off your feet with one bong hit and makes you stupid and sedated for 12-24 hours. It like some
macho competition "MORE POWER!!!!". Hit each other in the head with a hammer in you want to fall
down... smoke pot to get HIGH not down.
Vic high
To explain my methods is going to take a bit so please bear with me.
First of all I work on a perpetual harvest system where I harvest, start flowering, and clone every week.
At most times I have clones from each mother that I wish to breed along with my production crop.
After selecting the males I wish to keep I hold them in the veg room. Once every week one of them goes
into the flower room. When it's close to bursting I move it to a private room that I call the sex room.
Here I obtain the pollen and then go to the bud room, turn off the fans and then using a small artists
brush I brush the pollen onto a few lower buds of of each of the mothers that wish to breed. I then tag
the branch.
I'm able to repeat the process every week or two and therefore can go through many matings in a year. I
also mist the walls, ceiling and floor of the room between males to kill any lingering pollen that may be
lingering. The problem comes when I have all those seedlings to assess. This is the part that slows me
down. It's often challanging striking a balance between my main production clones and growing out the
seedlings.
I also believe in keeping two or more distinct lines that that can on occasion be crossed to take
advantage of hybrid vigour. I'm going to do this with my blueberry. I purchased seeds on two seperate
occasions and plan to keep their two lines seperate. They actually appear different in that the second
batch has wider and more blunt leaves. Curious.
MrSoul
Well, I'm truly pleased to have the intelligent discussion that developed on this important topic. It's just
the sort of discourse that would be taking place on the HBC S/G page if not for Voltaire's observation,
"The masses are asses" being so true.
Crane, I'm very happy to have your opinions adding to mine and VH's, you have my respect; you're a
gentleman and a scholar. I actually agree with most of what you say and in an ideal world we'd be doing
things more in line with yours and Vic's methods. I think by revealing my GOAL when breeding an f1
hybrid from two different strains (which isn't the same goal as in my "cubing the clone" of
Princess...that's another matter) I will explain why I breed as I do:
With my space limitations, I can flower no more than 40 seedlings when I grow out a batch of seeds, so
I am starting about 80 seeds when I do. These numbers are awfully small for breeding selection to be
done correctly. That's the reason why I prefer to have the seeds be the result of pollination by ALL the
males; there're going to be some that came from the best male, even if I didn't "pick" him out of the
"line-up".
When the seedlings are grown, my goal is to find the ONE or TWO best females to keep as clone
mothers to represent the cross. I usually mix pollen from no more than 10 males, so let's assume that
10% of the seed is the product of "the best" male. Then when I evaluate my 40 female seedlings (50%
of the 80 I started with), 4 of them will be his. That's enough for me to have my clone mothers from the
very first group of seedlings instead of growing & evaluating many groups of seedlings, each from a
different male...although I do lose the ID of the resonsible male.
With that in mind, I propose an improvement to my method, thanks to your comments: It would be
better to pollinate selected branches of the chosen female, each with the pollen of a different male (one
from each stud) and tag the branches accordingly. The seeds would then be labeled, kept separate, and
when grown out, only a small number of seeds (8 in my case) from each male would be combined to
make up my 80 starts. This would allow me to ID the responsible male when the superior group of
seedlings is identified. Once identified, he could then be used to mass-pollinate the selected female for
a HUGE batch of "superior" seeds.
The problem is that I don't have the space to keep clones of the males in veg, while I evaluate their
offspring. I admit that if my goal were to create a seedline, keeping the males would be
ESSENTIAL...otherwise, once the best father was identified, he'd no longer be around to perform "stud
service". So, you see that what I'm doing presently reflects my goal of creating a single MOTHER for
future propagation via CLONES, as opposed to creating a seedline.
Thanks so much to all for the stimulating discussion. I'm proud of the mature way we debated each
other...let's keep it up.
ONLY FOR THE TRUE HEADS.
Peace and positive vibes.
Apollo will always be w/ me in some form, I've seen to that. 
