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SandyFantasyman
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This one has been debated for a while. I've always stuck with DJ's methods. After growing Cannacopias DC hybrids you can see how dominant the Deep Chunk is for certain traits, especially for boosting the mothers flavor in aroma substantially.
Here's an Excerpt:
The Blueberry (among others) was discovered and stabilized from an
f1 cross between the P1 parents of a female Juicy Fruit Thai or a
female Purple Thai and a male Afghani Indica. Thus there were two
possible routes to essentially the same finished product. Blue
Velvet and Flo seem more accessible via the Purple Thai route, while
Blue Moonshine seems more accessible through the Juicy Fruit
lineage. That is, there is a higher probability of occurence of the
specific traits which I'm seeking, and so they're easier to "find".
Oddly enough, the opposite cross (female Afghani indica crossed with
pollen from male Thai sativa) was not nearly as interesting. The
f1's from this cross were more leafy and less desirable. They were
also more hermaphroditic and subsequent breeding revealed them to be
less desirable. It has been my observation that in a successful
cross, the (usually female) sativa contributes the type of aroma and
flavour, while the (usually male) indica contributes the amount of
aroma and flavour to the prodigy. So far this observation has proven
fruitful.
If one could say DJ's approach was accurate I don't think that the difference would be greater be it regular M/F pollen or feminized. Although in my experience the feminized pollen donor seems to be much more dominant than regular a male donor.
Here's an Excerpt:
The Blueberry (among others) was discovered and stabilized from an
f1 cross between the P1 parents of a female Juicy Fruit Thai or a
female Purple Thai and a male Afghani Indica. Thus there were two
possible routes to essentially the same finished product. Blue
Velvet and Flo seem more accessible via the Purple Thai route, while
Blue Moonshine seems more accessible through the Juicy Fruit
lineage. That is, there is a higher probability of occurence of the
specific traits which I'm seeking, and so they're easier to "find".
Oddly enough, the opposite cross (female Afghani indica crossed with
pollen from male Thai sativa) was not nearly as interesting. The
f1's from this cross were more leafy and less desirable. They were
also more hermaphroditic and subsequent breeding revealed them to be
less desirable. It has been my observation that in a successful
cross, the (usually female) sativa contributes the type of aroma and
flavour, while the (usually male) indica contributes the amount of
aroma and flavour to the prodigy. So far this observation has proven
fruitful.
If one could say DJ's approach was accurate I don't think that the difference would be greater be it regular M/F pollen or feminized. Although in my experience the feminized pollen donor seems to be much more dominant than regular a male donor.
jaypopnseeds
Member
The only things that can vary when it comes to the direction of crosses is epigenetics.
If you've heard of epigenetics, it's because it became a big buzzword in the world of molecular biology about 5 years ago. People found that some traits could be imprinted on an individual from their environment, and not controlled by genotype. An example would be the mother's fetal environment "imprinting" upon the child.
Now, you probably haven't heard about epigenetics lately. That's because people haven't found many traits controlled through epigenetics. In the grand scheme of things, the effect of epigenetics is very minimal.
If you're using fem pollen, and thus are using the exact same plants in both directions, the resulting offspring populations will be indistinguishable.
I have many issues with this DJ excerpt.
First, the female contributes the type of aroma and the flavor...the male contributes the amount of aroma and flavor.....UM WHAT?! Which is contributing the flavor, the male or the female? It's contradicting itself.
Everything I've heard about Deep Chunk, it just sucks for breeding. It turns everything it touches into Deep Chunk. That's not because people are using Deep Chunk as a male or female, it's just specific to that strain. Its traits are very dominant.
Another example is Greenpoint Seeds Stardawg male. Gu has crossed that male to dozens of female clones. Of those crosses, the vast majority of phenos are Stardawg-dominant. If you go by DJ's thought process, the smell should be dominated by the female, but that's definitely not the case.
Finally, my biggest problem with that DJ quote: DJ was not using fem pollen, so doing crosses in both directions meant selecting entirely different plants. The most likely and most rational reason for the difference between the crosses is that DJ simply chose shitty parents for one of them. Instead, DJ decides to use bro-science and decide that the direction of the cross matters. There's simply no genetic reason to believe that the direction of a cross could have a significant effect.
If you've heard of epigenetics, it's because it became a big buzzword in the world of molecular biology about 5 years ago. People found that some traits could be imprinted on an individual from their environment, and not controlled by genotype. An example would be the mother's fetal environment "imprinting" upon the child.
Now, you probably haven't heard about epigenetics lately. That's because people haven't found many traits controlled through epigenetics. In the grand scheme of things, the effect of epigenetics is very minimal.
If you're using fem pollen, and thus are using the exact same plants in both directions, the resulting offspring populations will be indistinguishable.
I have many issues with this DJ excerpt.
First, the female contributes the type of aroma and the flavor...the male contributes the amount of aroma and flavor.....UM WHAT?! Which is contributing the flavor, the male or the female? It's contradicting itself.
Everything I've heard about Deep Chunk, it just sucks for breeding. It turns everything it touches into Deep Chunk. That's not because people are using Deep Chunk as a male or female, it's just specific to that strain. Its traits are very dominant.
Another example is Greenpoint Seeds Stardawg male. Gu has crossed that male to dozens of female clones. Of those crosses, the vast majority of phenos are Stardawg-dominant. If you go by DJ's thought process, the smell should be dominated by the female, but that's definitely not the case.
Finally, my biggest problem with that DJ quote: DJ was not using fem pollen, so doing crosses in both directions meant selecting entirely different plants. The most likely and most rational reason for the difference between the crosses is that DJ simply chose shitty parents for one of them. Instead, DJ decides to use bro-science and decide that the direction of the cross matters. There's simply no genetic reason to believe that the direction of a cross could have a significant effect.
I think your reading into his opinions a bit far.
"It has been my observation that in a successful
cross, the (usually female) sativa contributes the type of aroma and
flavour, while the (usually male) indica contributes the amount of
aroma and flavour to the prodigy. So far this observation has proven
fruitful."
DJ isn't even saying it's foolproof, merely accounts of his experiences.
In terms of "DC sucks for breeding" beauty is in the eye of the be-holder, and a little odd someone using "science" would make such a statement. It is severely dominant but definitely has it's uses. Maybe worth picking up some beans and running them before speaking to it's breeding capabilities, maybe you have grown the hybrids?
I get what your saying, I don't think it's totally rational/concise in most cases, but for me appears to be the case in some of my experiences. Perhaps dominant traits lined up to make a false perception of this.
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SandyFantasyman
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A female plant will influence differently through it's staminate genes than from it's seeds. That means you will get a different set of traits from it's pollin on one of it's sisters than if you used one of it's brothers to pollinate it. You still get a similar amount of variation as from male female crosses, but not from selfed plants. Also, you don't always get 100% female seeds from female to female crosses, like you do (mostly) from selfing. The only way to find out what kind of influence a plant will have is through progeny testing, punnett squares just don't do the trick.
Ibechillin
Masochist Educator
Does A Male Or Female Pass On More Genetics To Their Offspring?: From February 2018
Link To Thread:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=350271
Link To Thread:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=350271
It makes absolutely no difference which parent in a cross is male and which is female. The genetic potential of the offspring is the same either way. The only practical difference is the resultant seed size may vary depending on which parent is the female, and this is due to the size of the calyx on the female.
The phenotypes seen in the offspring from any cross or pollination are the result of the dominant alleles inherited from each parent.
Hope this helps.
G `day BT
I think that theory says more about selection in Hash plant genetics compared to ganja plant genetics .
Hash plant . No selection , hash the field males / females / herms .Get a mean of the potency and stability of the field .
Ganja plant selected lots of generations ,smoke individual plants .Each individual can be evaluated for potency and structure and intersex .
Thanks for sharin
EB .
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SandyFantasyman
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Ibechillin
Masochist Educator
They both mean there is no difference in offspring phenotypes, just that seed size varies depending on the mother used.
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SandyFantasyman
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