Off the shelf retail store screw-in LED and CFL bulb comparisons

NIKT said:

Changes, in 10 years, no one will remember the existence of CFL,

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Nobody paid too much attention on led as well and have been around since the 19th century with a couple of twists in the 60's. Who thought they'll became what they are today?
Maybe technology will turn around the good old worms as well.
Not siding with cfl here, I've used them for a good decade with excellent results, nowadays I'm on sil like everybody else just because of lower operational costs. That goes well with the current energy crisis...
The price I pay it's an ongoing struggle with balancing the nutes and supplements but I'm getting there.

I'm haunted by the desire of doing a side to side grow cfl - sil, but "I rakka disciprin".
I have a big grocery bag full of (unused) cfl and sometimes I miss the time when I just filled the nute tank (aquavalve) with mix and leave for up to eight days huntin' and fishin' coming back to well developped plants I just did'n't recognize anymore. It was really rewarding.
Sometimes they were grown into the lights, lucky I was using a glass ceiling to separate them from plants 'cause I was never afraid that "the glass will eat the light" but use that to cool the bulbs properly. It worked.
Now I can't use a nute tank 'cause every damn watering you have to tinker and adjust the ingredients and/or water intake, the ph being a constantly nagging beech in one instance even killed one of my plants.

Whe I first seen this thread, I thought I'll see here some like side by side grow(s). I did'nt.
"I tell you whaaat", I reckon I'll give it a go to this side by side thing, I just need to get right the rules :
1- Two spaces identical in size.
2- Two (group of) clones from the same mother, same age and size.
3- Same type of ventilation, (intake) temps and humidity for both spaces.
4- Same time exposure to lights, 4ex 12/12 for both boxes.
And a question: should the lights be equal in power (wattagge) or equally equivalent to classic light bulb?
Let's say, a 100w classic is matched by 23w of cfl and a 10w sil. Like that?
5- I imagine the soil type/mix should be the same but it's ok to use different nutes and/or ratio of those. Right?
Not other but since the plant phisiology acts differently to the lights, it should be allright to use different standards.

This is the thread that made me switch from cfl to sil, and if it's still around in March I'll be all over it.

NIKT said:

as well as internet forums as such.

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THAT is a bold statement!

not quite a perfect led vs cfl run but close
1st plant was with 3 x 26w GE 2700 cfls
a basic kind of organic dirt/nutes, my own cross
then a reveg after harvest, all the same dirt/nutes
but with 3 x 12.5 daylight great value sils from walmart
plant was sativa leaning and wanted to see how a daylight temp would do in flower
yield more than double, much more solid bud and quality went up a good bit

1521lm for 7.2w, gives us another one coming in at just over 211lm/w

I have seen a 7w for 10 euro's but suspect it was this 7.2

In 2017 Philips made the Dubai lamp. A 3w 600lm was the biggest. For sale only in the emirates, it's 200lm/w announced in 2016 is making this latest efficiency class A look rather dated.


Edit:
Class A= over 210lm/w
Class B= over 185lm/w
C=160
D=135
E=110

2021 EC performance directives may not relate to other zones, but might help with sourcing from China. Note we have 1521lm lamps not 1500

igrowone said:

not quite a perfect led vs cfl run but close

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Uhmmmm..... not even close.

Re-veg almost always has a much heavier harvest. Next time keep a mum plant and run the same clones under both lamps. Make sure to take a LOT of clones, so each run you're only using the best and healthiest for an even comparison.

Nice plant!

Ca++ said:

Ledvance Classic LED E27 Pear Filament Clear 7.2W 1521lm - 830 Warm White | Replaces 100W

Ledvance Classic LED E27 Pear Filament Clear 7.2W 1521lm - 830 Warm White | Replaces 100W starting from . Order ! Free LED-Advice: !

www.any-lamp.com

1521lm for 7.2w, gives us another one coming in at just over 211lm/w

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manufacturer's declaration 211 lumens per watt is at this cct, and assuming a cri of about 84, an efficiency of 2.98 umol/J in the 400-700 nm range. And over 3.0 almost 3.1 in the full emission range.

It's a pity that the source is non-directional. And way too expensive at the moment.

ps: cfl lamps were maybe in the range of 0.9 umol/J

like this e.g.

Hey guys! a question to you.
I took led strips of SMD 2835, at 60/Meter. 3000K.
made a 40x20cm aluminium plate full of those leds. I didn't count how many meters, but at the end It's pulling only 25W from the power supply.
no diffusers or lens, only plain led strips on a plate.

now first of all, this plate came out incredibly bright, to the point that I can compare it's brightness to my Quantum Board of 120W.
second of all, this whole plate don't put any heat whatsoever, the temp at the diode level is like room temp + 1 celsius MAX. which means I can grow plants really close to it.

now about PPFD, I get 1200 at 30cm, 500 at 50cm, and 2500 at 15cm.
this PPFD is 20-30% lower than my HLG120 board, which pull 120W! the only diffrenece is that the HLG120 will give better PPFD from far away.

but this thing only pulls 25W.
I currently grow plant under it, it's a seedling but it grow compact and nice so the PPFD is defintly enough and even more than enough.

how this is even possible? before that experiment I had the impression that you need either a Highly efficient leds (like those on quantum boards), or a higher wattage
but this plate just break the rules...totally. you can just let the plant touch the light or be 15cm from it, so it will get 2500 PPFD at least.

I feel that if I'm scaling this up, and make a bigger plate with 100W worth of 2835 SMD, they would be much brighter and stronger than a HLG-120 board. while by the book the 2835 are not even half as efficient as the chips on the HLG-120.
what am I missing? how this is even possible that 25W of less efficient leds, are giving such a nice measurments that are only 20-30% lower than 120W of much efficient leds like in the HLG120 quantum board?
worth noting that I took measurments of the HLG120 I own, and they match the expected details HLG stated. so the HLG120 is 100% fine.

the SMD 2835 are really cheap also. you could make a 100W plate of it for less then 15bucks including strips, powersupply, and a plate.

Do you have an LED torch with adjustable beam?
The same LED engine, will illuminate the light meter more, if the beam is focused on it. That's not a gain in light though. It's just a gain in light falling upon the meter. Elsewhere, it got darker.

I dont know much about ppfd and such, but I use 110lm/W led strips as side lighting in microgrow for years, and they are much more efficient than I expected:

For a smaller space and to be able to put them in any shape or form you need, they are for sure efficient. Anything bigger and you'd find out they lack penetration power. So your set-up is probably the best pairing for those. That, and maybe clonning.
If I were you, I'd add a few more strips in there! Then you'll have even nicer plants.

exploziv said:

For a smaller space and to be able to put them in any shape or form you need, they are for sure efficient. Anything bigger and you'd find out they lack penetration power. So your set-up is probably the best pairing for those. That, and maybe clonning.
If I were you, I'd add a few more strips in there! Then you'll have even nicer plants.

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That extremely small box is mostly only for early veg, and I think its ligting is more than enough for that purpose. Everywhere else I'm installing TRON led bars, because they are more efficinent (166-180lm/W), and I can use them with my 24V solar system directly (without inverter):

f2obsession said:

I dont know much about ppfd and such, but I use 110lm/W led strips as side lighting in microgrow for years, and they are much more efficient than I expected:


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They are a good option for you. Nicely executed to.
Before LED your choices were flo's which never reached 110lm/w or a 150w son, which was 100lm/w. To get past your 110 would need a 250w HID of some sort, which appears to of been too big.
Yes, there are more efficient LEDs now. However it's not long ago your veg was cutting edge stuff.

I don't want to be a party pooper, but the threads originator really wants it kept on topic. He has culled off topic stuff in the past. At 240 pages of mostly on topic chat, I don't really want to be posting this off topic myself. As interesting as this little interlude is, it's thread worthy of it's own accord.

Lets try and keep this thread on compacts on course. It's a nice bit of history.

Ca++ said:

They are a good option for you. Nicely executed to.
Before LED your choices were flo's which never reached 110lm/w or a 150w son, which was 100lm/w. To get past your 110 would need a 250w HID of some sort, which appears to of been too big.
Yes, there are more efficient LEDs now. However it's not long ago your veg was cutting edge stuff.

I don't want to be a party pooper, but the threads originator really wants it kept on topic. He has culled off topic stuff in the past. At 240 pages of mostly on topic chat, I don't really want to be posting this off topic myself. As interesting as this little interlude is, it's thread worthy of it's own accord.

Lets try and keep this thread on compacts on course. It's a nice bit of history.

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In my defense, there are some Screw In Led bulbs included in both of my cabinets visible on the pictures I shared.
They provide the timing of light phase start and end with analog timer switch (from the grid 230V~), because I have to manage the PV lighting manually following the Weather and "daytime" conditions...

A very nice micro garden with vertical lighting. Apparently, such an arrangement of light can give up to 25% increase in crops from the same value of the light flux as in the case of only lighting from above.

But I didn't want to talk about that. there's something more on topic of the thread


Phillips Ultra Efficient LED





Użyszkodnik => seweryn2422

The classic bat wing in the micro version. The creator, based on measurements, speculates that he managed to get over 180 lm / W together with the luminaire. ( 190 ?! _ 2,46 u,ol/J for this spectrum : full emision 210 lm/W _ 2.72 in the 400_700 nm range)



the full lamp is supposed to look like this and be lined with a rather smooth mylar. PLA material printed on a cheap popular 3d printer. Still without division into parts that fit on the printer table.



thread on the forum, a wing reflector was also proposed without getting rid of the glass bubble.


It seems that from the successor of the really directional e27 lamps on smd diodes, high-performance filaments also have some DIY potential. However, it can be more difficult to obtain high beams of light from above while maintaining good reflector efficiency.

And here we return to the led strips on the walls of the room.

Such trolling that the thread would not drift completely beyond e27
As usual, sorry for the pseudo-English language

ps:

non-thematic non-lighting micro farmer 3d prints

f2obsession said:

I dont know much about ppfd and such, but I use 110lm/W led strips as side lighting in microgrow for years, and they are much more efficient than I expected:


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how many watts are those things? They look interesting

indica193 said:

how many watts are those things? They look interesting

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The short (280mm) ones on the sides are 9,048W. I mean, one piece is 9W (23,2V 390mA) but producing 1500 lumen. The dual channel editions with double led density consume the double, and make the double lumen.

The longer ones (canopy lighting) are 560mm 18,096W and 3006 lumen each

the latest news from F#
continuation of topic Phillips Ultra Efficient LED


Lighting:
DIY Panel of 6:
Reflector 3D printed from ABS + smooth mylar
Bulbs 6x PHILIPS UltraEfficiend 210lm/W [7.3W][1550lm]

Cool build! But isn't mylar flammable and conductive?

That one lamp base looks trippy, like it became almost dripping hot. Too many "Fire Hazard" red flags are coming up for me on this one.

The LED tech is very interesting, the setup needs a bit of re-work though I love the 3D printed hood base

exploziv said:

Cool build! But isn't mylar flammable and conductive?

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Oh, there are minor technical problems. The creator probably (?? you can ask him directly on F# ) doesn't care much about sticking wires. Or that the metallised side of mylar is probably a conductor. I think he was more concerned with the efficiency of the reflector than safety since he was playing with a hammer on these e27.

ABS is also rather flammable, as is metallized aluminum PET.

E27 lamp housings _ plastic on aluminum inserts are usually ABS. Somehow no one has cried too much so far and it was hot no less. People are getting more and more nervous.

tick _ old overgrow forum, probably over 20 years ago will be.
everything has been done before, nothing new. well, maybe this mass of spaghetti in the reflector is something new.


400 W HPS _ smooth mylar on metal reflector. probably less flammable

this lamp looks like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_concept

from my point of view -> It's interesting to see what real yield potential it has. The reflector itself, as far as I know, was redesigned -> based on measurements with a luxmeter.
Variety, farmer, cultivation technique and light source.

A curiosity straight from the times when high-performance e27 filaments are probably ?? starting to replace e27 sources on smd diodes.

it's like history has come full circle. The return of sources with light distribution similar to incandescent lamps. Off the shelf retail store.

return to =>



but the efficiency of the best available substitutes is more than 3x higher.

Some of us (hopefully most of us) try to be up to modern electrical safety codes/standards when it comes to grows. Personally I even try to go over and beyond those codes, as to have as little as there is possible to worry about. Hopefully the guy that made that knows what is doing and he's lucky enaugh to not encounter any problems, but, still, he's inviting more danger into his growspace than he needs to. Playing with fire, sometimes you get burned..