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"Mr extractor" discussion

A

A6 Grower

Member
Veteran
As i hope you know, as you run your butane it will be picking up water from the material and air inside the machine thats doesnt get purged. Your purge method will gets most of the air out but id still say 30% is air. Depending on where you're running(outside) that could be a lot of moisture being introduced to the machine. What do you recommend for removing this moisture from that top storage tank? It doesn't look like it opens so cleaning it looks very difficult. This is a problem ALL closed loop systems are facing, as your recycle your butane it will pick up any water it can along the way. I dont see a place for filter dryers

I see that you pressure tested your sight glass with room temp water, have you looked at how much the glass is weakened when you have -30f butane in it?

What material are your seals? Are the rated for -30f extraction?

Why didnt you choose high pressure clamps for your device?

So far i haven't seen you mention anything about removing the rust inhibitors and stuff(mystery oil) while loading the machine, I know your machine can, you should probably instruct your users how.

Since sub zero butane is being used i would advise your clients to not soak their material using the sightglass as the hydraulic pressure butane creates rises very quick.

I havent seen very clearly how much butane to load in the system. How much do you recommend?
 
Roji

Roji

Active member
This guy is brave, I'll give him that. He also seems to insult his customers and their intelligence. My take on his message is "I build extractors for idiots who cant understand how extraction works"
 
A

A6 Grower

Member
Veteran
With simplicity can come simple mistakes....

When using a vacuumed machine, i can load -30F butane into it because of the vacuum and pressure assist from the main tank. My pumps don't run until i'm ready to start recovery. Our machines almost lock up if they aren't vacuumed out fully so its not just yours, its how this process works. By purging the air out as you say that would only purge out the air under pressure, the rest of the machine would still be full of atmosphere.

Your clients are going to try and run this system by prechilling the butane first with DI/iso, i can guarantee it so you should advise them against as this was what i was saying about the sight glass at room temp vs -30F. The volume of your butane changes by temp so filling with DI/ISO like your video states i can do to speed up loading the butane could lead to over filling. I can already see all the blown sight glasses from people dumping -30f butane from the top into that glass and forgetting to open the valves to the collection pot or intentionally letting it soak. You can say "oh this is the customers fault" all you want but i have yet to see ANY form of what not to do with your machine. If you marketing towards people who don't know what the hell they're doing then you should have VERY detailed instructions and a list of what not to do. I get your marketing plan but its worrisome to someone who daily reads how many people want to extract on their own but have no idea what to do or worse they think they do when they don't.

What about the moisture issue?? You completely forgot that... This is going to be an issue with your machine. Even if i empty the top thing of butane ill still have a nice little puddle of water in there. Can this be cleaned out?
 
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Roji

Roji

Active member
ConnoisseurConc said:
Roji, I'll take that as a question. I'm insulted that people have been selling flammable pumps to people and then trying to defend it. Its wrong. I made active systems years ago and didnt sell them because i knew it was dangerous and the wrong thing to do. Instead I focused on a safer alternative. This is the smallest version of what I can up with. When I get attacked by people who know better but are defending it because it is profitable, or the way they make oil, I don't respect it. My unit may not be the best, but I will take everyone's shit in the hopes that people realize that pumps do have a strong possibility to contaminate systems, and some are not safe. Particulates will come off the seals. It goes in the extractions. Unless you put a filter on the in and the out, and that still wouldnt pass purity standards in the real world. Ours will. Maybe not this very first version, but we are still working and designing.
Click to expand...

Ok, let's do this.

Can you link any actual data you have or quote your source on oil-less recovery machines producing contaminates or being the cause of any accidents or incidents?
Also, are you aware of the impurities in the canned butane you use for your system? The ones that are removed in an active cls below 85f ? Is your machine able to remove these impurities below 85f?
I sense a lot of hyperbole in your message. Your stance could be strengthened with factual data.
 
Roji

Roji

Active member
Also, you claim the girls are founders of the company and not models...

Can you explain this video on your Vimeo page? She clearly explains that she has a contract you with you for one year for modeling and to be a spokesperson.

https://vimeo.com/113108186
 
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SkyHighLer

SkyHighLer

Got me a stone bad Mana
ICMag Donor
Veteran
^^^^^ "The unit is able to remove all impurities by running it empty, pre distilling, as you know."

This is not a trick question to embarrass you or your company, are you getting all the nonvolatile residue ('Mystery Oil') out in a single empty distillation pass through? Have you done a second pass and clean out to make sure?
 
Snype

Snype

Active member
Veteran
Are you going to be able to pay for Kendal's braces for her bottom teeth so she can try to find more modeling jobs? It might get hard for her. Why is she wearing that skinny belt on that white cotton looking dress? I can never understand why girls wear belts with a dress.
 
A

A6 Grower

Member
Veteran
Unfortunately since its the internet you're going to deal with comments like that^^^^^. Just ignore those and move on. There are a lot of people here who will have some serious questions like i've had. To you guys doing this, real questions go a lot farther then making fun of his company/marketing. Hes here to talk about his machine, lets do that! We all had conerns a page or two back, what happened to those??

So you can see my question again(hopefully it doesn't get buried in smartass remarks again), What is you plan to remove moisture that gets picked up during extraction? Without vacuuming the machine of atmosphere you'll be introducing how ever much moisture is in the area you assembled the machine in. Also the material will have ~12% moisture most likely that will be picked up by the butane. Even with not fully recovering to -30hg( i rarely recover past 0hg) i still get moisture build up in my tanks and i run filter dryers everywhere. With my tanks i can flip them upside down and freezer them to get most of the butane out by opening my vapor port with the tank upside down. Your storage tank looks like it doesn't have that ability. Am i correct? Even if you dumped all the butane out you'd still be left with a little puddle of water. This was one of my issues with bhogarts storage tanks.

In Post #71 i had some concerns to your last response also.
 
F

flatslabs

Member
I believe you would have the same issue with distillation as with water in the solvent, no?
If the top tank cannot be opened, how do you get the mystery oil if the cans are being loaded directly? Won't some be left in the top tank or does it all make its way down.
 
A

A6 Grower

Member
Veteran
ConnoisseurConc said:
Moisture first. I did forget. I think I understand the question. In this unit the top chamber holds the butane. It gravity feeds down through the material and into the evap chamber. That would bring all moisture down with it into the lower evap chamber every time when ran, which is openable to remove oils, of course. Advisable to predistill, which would not bring moisture up into the top chamber, only vapor butane. It would leave moisture and mystery oils below. I hope this is what you were referring to.

Use your machine for a week, dont empty the butane, just add more when you need more, which is the main point of going closed other than being able to distill your butane before using, and do a couple runs a day. Empty all the butane out of your top storage tank after lots of back to back runs, and i bet you'll have a nice little puddle of water in there. Even with never recovering past 0hg, moisture will still find its way into the butane storage tank. This is something we are all dealing with in all machines. That two inch opening would be very hard to use to clean out that tank. Also when distilling the butane not all of the shit from the cans will make it down into the collection pot. The tank, and the whole path down will need cleaned with hot ISO to get it all out, id say 90% of the rust inhibitors and lube will make it down to the collection pot

Pre chilling. This unit does not work well with prechilling butane that low. It wasnt designed to function that way. When prechilled, the top stays so cold with liquid butane it does not want to gravity flow downward to the room temp material chamber due to temp differential. This is something we has solved in the larger units. It required additional features we did not want to complicate this unit with. You can use a stainless cold column and solve some of the issues, but its just not designed to do that as efficiently as we would like. The larger units however are designed to act in reflux, you can heat the unit slightly and have the liquid condense and re rinse the extract continuously at sub zero temps. I cant get to much into that now.

This wouldn't happen if you vacuumed down the system before use, the vacuum would pull the butane down into the chambers. Again i see no mention or warning your customers about doing this, Its common knowledge lower temps lead to lighter extracts, so i can guarantee your clients will try this unless you tell them its very serious not to do this. If i used DI/ISO to recover my butane after being distilled you can bet im probably going to toss material in that glass and do a run right after.

Instructions: you are correct about expansion. Hopefully the explanation about the stainless column usage answers that as well.We have a question and answer section and a request from the extraction community on assistance on bringing up points such as these. We know that we cant think of ever question. Actually, Ill post up the text from our page:

Welcome to our fact and questions page. This page will be constantly evolving! We can spend all day thinking of every question you could ever ask, or we can focus on building machines and just let you ask us. So send us all your questions related to our device, instructions and website and we will start to compile a list of facts and questions.

We will add all the question we receive here to our list.We absolutely do not have every thing accomplish, this is a large undertaking.

As to instructions: We cant put out advertising videos of every single aspect of the machine, its just too detailed and no one wants to sit through it. We have a video that explains this in the beginning of our websites instruction page. Each video is a short visual representation. They are not to be a substitute for instruction. On each instruction page we have four sections:

A quick summery of the step for those who are familiar with the functions and just need a refresher...
A tip section for experienced users to speed up or simplify the process...
A full scientific explanation of the step, why it does what it does, what to do and what not to do..
And a quick video demonstrating a summed up version of the step if you still cant understand, which some people may not.

I would highly recommend you do this, as with your marketing you seem to be aiming towards inexperienced users to do at home extractions(Which is becoming a huge problem and being banned in a lot of states, including OR). If you don't make sure your customers know what they are using and how to use it you're going to create a bigger problem than we already have in the CLS market with uneducated people doing things they shouldn't be. This isnt going to help your business, and its going to create an image that we are trying to avoid by making people learn what they're doing. We don't want people blowing themselves up ,its bad enough with open blasters

Most extractors come with no instructions, and you are forced to learn by speaking to people on the internet. Telephone is not a good method of learning.

People should be educated before playing with things that can kill them and injure others around them. Yes not very many companies educate their customers, but does CAT tell you how to run a bulldozer when you buy one from them? No lol.... Same with ford not teaching you how to drive, and fisher not teaching me how to use their lab equipment, its kinda up to you. None of theses CLS companies are telling their customers how big of a deal this extracting is, they all are taking the approach you're taking buy saying "Oh its so easy anyone can do it" I hate that lol

https://vimeo.com/115677811
Click to expand...

Responses in blue
 
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Snype

Snype

Active member
Veteran
ConnoisseurConc said:
Michele, the girl in the video, has worked with us on other projects for a while, and started out in the company as a client specialist. She began to dabble in modeling and it has really taken off. We wanted to support her in that and make it official that we would be using her to help her in her side career. Its important to her and she enjoys it, and shes good at it. As a business we spoke and decided that making it official would help her and that's how we played it. It was a little backward, but thats how it played out.
Click to expand...

Isn't Michelle worried that Kendal is going to outshine her? May bring some jealously issues. Seems like Kendal is getting more work with the video's. Won't the public get the wrong impression with Kendra using the extractor indoors in the video to show how easy it is? Seems that if a blonde can extract indoors then so can everyone else. Can you really fit 224 grams of dry flowerers in that Sight Glass? Looks kind of small. How come Michelle starts laughing when Kendra starts talking details in one of the video's? Maybe Kendra was saying Michelle's lines and Kendra didn't know what to do.
 
P

Permacultuure

Member
Veteran
ConnoisseurConc said:
Response:
Like it or not, people want to extract, including amateurs. They're only avenue is open blasting which is great, but unacceptable. We will work to make something which is not going away no matter what, into a safer and cleaner product. This is not the culmination of our companies work, just the first step.
Click to expand...

You admit your main customers would be current open blasters......this would imply that their only source of solvent would be canned butane, which uses propane as a propellent. You clearly state not to use propane in this extractor...........
 
NorPene Solutions

NorPene Solutions

Member
ConnoisseurConc said:
Michele prefers photography, kendal prefers videos. They each have strong suits. You are right about using the device indoors. Its something that you just cant win at, we arent going to shoot our videos outside in the winter. To make you feel perfectly happy we had excellent ventilation for that little gas off we did of the oxygen. Your right as well. Everyone, with some training, should be able to use this device. Mostly, lol. The marketing is not lost on you. You can fit 8 ounces in the center chamber and when ground it fits up to a pound. Ground finely. Not my preferred method. Michele laughed at me because I was making faces behind the camera. I do stuff like that because I enjoy life and my job.
Click to expand...

"Excellent ventilation" and acceptable ventilation are two totally different animals! It is quite obvious that there was NOT appropriate or approved ventilation for the use of combustible gases in an enclosed space. Guaranteed fire codes were also not met! Need I go on. You broke many regs and laws throughout the video shoots.
 
SkyHighLer

SkyHighLer

Got me a stone bad Mana
ICMag Donor
Veteran
SkyHighLer said:
^^^^^ "The unit is able to remove all impurities by running it empty, pre distilling, as you know."

This is not a trick question to embarrass you or your company, are you getting all the nonvolatile residue ('Mystery Oil') out in a single empty distillation pass through? Have you done a second pass and clean out to make sure?
Click to expand...

You didn't answer this, "Have you done a second pass and clean out to make sure?" Surely you've done a second clean out test on your own to make sure?? I'd like to hear it on the record from a CLS manufacturer that he/she/it knows for a fact their device removes the nonvolatile residue ('Mystery Oil') in a single pass.

ConnoisseurConc said:
To be clear, thats not our main focus. This is a small batch extractor, aimed at those who only need to extract smaller amounts. This is not meant for the guy with the warehouse. Its meant for the individual grower, or person who wants to run their own company, or the personal user, or even a dispensary. Running it 8 hours a day you can extract 3-4 pounds of material. Thats a lot.

The pressure capacity of the device was not meant for pure propane. The pressure is too high. We will work on a small batch propane device, maybe.

The statement is more geared toward users of pure butane, not mixed cans. There is no danger of the actual blended mixes out of cans. I will clarify this in the instructions, Thank you-
Click to expand...

Maybe you'd like to extol a bit further on the pressures encountered using pure gas versus a mixture. I know the canned butanes that are nearly 100% n-butane like Puretane, have drastically reduced pressure compared to a standard can with propane and iso-butane.
 
SkyHighLer

SkyHighLer

Got me a stone bad Mana
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I don't like the glass extraction chamber idea, another dud is the compression fitting in the return tube which you have fully supporting a full tank of butane while you load and unload the extraction chamber. Lot of mass hanging there... guess you just take a wrench to the fitting if it loosens up...
 
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