my first indoor grow

lulzz · Dec 30, 2013

LyryC said:
take a picture of the plants for us please and yes the new growth is always light in color so a picture will really help but I think everything is going well - nice come up!

Also when you move plants into flower - they have to adjust so sometimes it looks like sulfur deficiencies or magnesium but really its just like you said - the chlorophyll.

hi mate, yeah it got me a bit confusing with the colours, to start with i though it was normal so i didn't think much about it, but when they got dark green overnight, and then slowly started to get lime green again it got me wondering, atm its only the biggest plant that got most feeding and needs most chlorophyll so i hope it settles with the improved ph in some days

i will post some pictures in some hours

lulzz · Dec 30, 2013

The_Core said:
EC 1.0 = 700 ppm x700 scale
EC 1.0 = 500 ppm x500 scale

Your tap out of the faucet is 500 PPM?! Damn that is some strong Tap. That will definitely effect how you fertilize, thats for sure.

Runoff at 2400-3000?! EC of 4.7 is insane high!

i don't know yet if its x500 or x700, the company that made them wasn't clever enough to let people know somehow, and i cant seem to find the value for this ec meter online either

yeah 1 ec tap water and 4.7 ec runoff seems retarded high, im not sure if i did it properly or the meter needs calibration allrdy, the shop told me it would be 100 % fine to start with and then calibrate in 1-2 months, will do some more testing later

The_Core said:
Lulzz. You have nutrient buildup in your soil because you are over fertilizing and your plant is not using enough of the nutrients, and when you water you are adding more and pushing some out of the bottom. Also incorrect PH can cause lockout and therefore your plant wont use what you are giving them and it will build up in the soil. Either way with a runoff that high i would expect you will be experiencing issues with over-fertilization or lockout. Your pH of 6.7 sounds great so instead of lockout I just think you are giving your plants way too much feeding strength in the water. I would dial back your BioBizz strength and see if your plant starts to use the nutrients it has in the soil. That is my suggestion. But as they say if its not broke don't try to fix it. How do the plants look?

yeah your right, something is wrong, i cant see it on the plants tho, they look healthy and good, but they are growing pretty slow

i fixed the ph problem now by flusing them, last day it was around 5 / 5.5, so i got them back on track with my flusing

the 4.7 ec runoff was from that flusing, so i might have flushed alot of salts out allrdy, im gonna do a new runoff test later and hopefully it shows an ec of under 2.0, ill let you guys know when i do it

The_Core · Dec 30, 2013

lulzz said:
i don't know yet if its x500 or x700, the company that made them wasn't clever enough to let people know somehow, and i cant seem to find the value for this ec meter online either

yeah 1 ec tap water and 4.7 ec runoff seems retarded high, im not sure if i did it properly or the meter needs calibration allrdy, the shop told me it would be 100 % fine to start with and then calibrate in 1-2 months, will do some more testing later

yeah your right, something is wrong, i cant see it on the plants tho, they look healthy and good, but they are growing pretty slow

i fixed the ph problem now by flusing them, last day it was around 5 / 5.5, so i got them back on track with my flusing

the 4.7 ec runoff was from that flusing, so i might have flushed alot of salts out allrdy, im gonna do a new runoff test later and hopefully it shows an ec of under 2.0, ill let you guys know when i do it

That reading was from a flushing not just a normal watering? You may have flushed a lot of built up salt just as you said. And they told you not to calibrate a brand new meter? I only trust a meter after I personally calibrated it. I personally would calibrate the meter ASAP. And when you take your readings don't use the water from a flush, just water to get a little runoff and test that. If you really had 4.7 EC and your plants look great then its an uncalibrated meter or you just flushed all the extra out. If I am not mistaken if you bought a EC meter over here its probably x700 when converting to PPM. The x500 is for Meters in the USA.

The_Core · Dec 30, 2013

I used google and from another site I pulled this up. This is not from me and I cant take credit but I am posting so it will make more sense for you.

Depends on if your from Europe or the US. There is the 442 conversion (40% sodium sulfate, 40% sodium bicarbonate, and 20% sodium chloride) which some say is the closest thing to a hydroponic solution. The 442 conversion is approximately 700 x EC in miliSiemens (mS). Then there is the NaCl conversion (sodium chloride) which others say is the closest thing to a hydroponic solution. The NaCl conversion is approximately 500 x EC in miliSiemens (mS). Most US manufactured EC meters use the Calcium Chloride conversion factor as a default. However many are adjustable to allow for any conversion rates 500 and 700. The European manufacturers more often use 700 as the conversion factor by default. It is really best to just use EC and ignore the TDS or ppm estimations. Sadly most people do not even calibrate their EC meters. Ideally they should be calibrated with a calibration solution of calcium chloride near to the EC/ppm you will commonly be testing.

lulzz · Dec 30, 2013

The_Core said:
That reading was from a flushing not just a normal watering? You may have flushed a lot of built up salt just as you said. And they told you not to calibrate a brand new meter? I only trust a meter after I personally calibrated it. I personally would calibrate the meter ASAP. And when you take your readings don't use the water from a flush, just water to get a little runoff and test that. If you really had 4.7 EC and your plants look great then its an uncalibrated meter or you just flushed all the extra out. If I am not mistaken if you bought a EC meter over here its probably x700 when converting to PPM. The x500 is for Meters in the USA.

yeah, it was from the flushing, both to adjust ph but allso to flush out some salts, it was first time i flushed since i started feeding and it seems like it was a good idea

the meter should come calibrated, and there is even some calibration note inside the box, but yeah i guess i have to do it myself to be 100 % sure

im gonna take a new runoff test in an hour or so, then hopefully it looks better

hmm, the chart i just looked at but cant find again, says that 500x is in europe and 700x is usa

The_Core · Dec 30, 2013

Taken from BlueLab
From BlueLab:

ppm measures parts per million. ppm is known as dimensionless quantities; that is, they are pure numbers with no associated units of measurement. A mass concentration of 2mg/kg - 2 parts per million - 2ppm - 2 x 10-6.

There are many different scales used for different industries around the world and for many different reasons! Did you even know there are more than two scales? The most widely used scales in Hydroponics are the 500 scale, 650 scale and the 700 scale.

What's the difference? The ppm 700 scale is based on measuring the KCl or potassium chloride content of a solution. The ppm 500 is based on measuring the NaCl or sodium chloride content of a solution and is also referred to as TDS - total dissolved solids. Individual nutrient ions have different electrical effects! The true ppm of a solution can only be determined by a chemical analysis. ppm cannot be accurately measured by a CF or EC meter. They are present on Bluelab products as a conversion guide only. The conversion is as follows;

2.4EC x 500 = 1200ppm (500 scale) or 1200ppm / 500 = 2.4EC

2.4EC x 700 = 1680ppm (700 scale) or 1680ppm / 700 = 2.4EC

If you are reading from a book that says you should grow your crop at 1100ppm - how do you know which scale the writer is referring to? Is the scale on your ppm meter right for the job? If the book was written in the USA, it could be the 650 or 500 scale. If the book is written in the UK, it could be the 700 scale. If it was written in Australia, well it could be any of the three!

If you must grow using ppm, you will need to know the following;

What ppm scale is the book referring to?
What ppm scale is your meter using?
Which standard or calibration solution should you use for your meter?
What ppm scale is the nutrient formula referring to?

We have a conductivity converter that can help you to determine what the ppm may be on your meter or in your book. If we start off with a general idea of where certain crops should be grown using EC or CF as a guide, then this can help determine what ppm the instrument, book, website etc could be referring to. If you need help to determine what conductivity your crop should be grown at we also have a nominal value chart that may help.

lulzz · Dec 30, 2013

oh, i feel a little stupid right now

ec values don't need conversions, its the final number, ppm are made from conversions of ec values, so if i wanted to compare my ec to yours i would need your ppm scale and convert yours to ec and then compare to mine.. damn

the new growth has turned very lime green on my big plant now

i will be taking pictures and checking ph/ec runoff's now

The_Core · Dec 31, 2013

My plant is turning light green as well and the leaves are so dry and rough. I turned off the fan, and I keep misting the leaves to raise RH, I just gave my plant 6 hours of darkness but It seems like nothing I am doing is helping to make the leaves improve. Not sure what to do.

lulzz · Dec 31, 2013

i checked the ec reading and its accurate within 0.02 %..

my tap water is really 1.0 ec, i will try and find out whats exactly in my water here in my area

plant 1

ph in 7.3, runoff 6.4

ec in 1.0 ec out 2.3

plant 2

ph in 7.3, runoff 6.2

ec in 1.0, ec out 3.0

the ph looks ok now, from next watering im going ph 6.8 and keep feeding them that until it goes steady somewhere around 6.5

the ec still seems pretty high, if i see any signs of burn i will flush and hope for the best, they are already full of water from last flushing, i don't think adding more now will do any good, just have to watch how the ec changes in the next days and see if it raises or lowers

lulzz · Dec 31, 2013

The_Core said:
My plant is turning light green as well and the leaves are so dry and rough. I turned off the fan, and I keep misting the leaves to raise RH, I just gave my plant 6 hours of darkness but It seems like nothing I am doing is helping to make the leaves improve. Not sure what to do.

that sucks mate, if they go lime green its prolly a lack of micro nutes from what i read

lulzz · Dec 31, 2013

few more pics, sry for the bad quality, don't have any good light to help the camera

pic 1
i took off the 2 lowest shoots, i doubted that they would make it to the top, and then i noticed how the roots has grown 2 cm up through the new layer after repot in 9 days, also staring to see root coming out the bottom

pic 2
my fimmings is starting to get strong again, amazing how much this one stretched the stem between the 2 shoots that i fimmed, and i see a little pistil coming out

pic 3
starting to grow really well again, and sweet little pistils is forming

pic 4
this one only got 3 top shoots, but the 2 side shoots is catching up and making up for the lost

cant really get a good picture of the others atm

lulzz · Dec 31, 2013

lulzz said:
few more pics, sry for the bad quality, don't have any good light to help the camera

pic 1
i took off the 2 lowest shoots, i doubted that they would make it to the top, and then i noticed how the roots has grown 2 cm up through the new layer after repot in 9 days, also staring to see root coming out the bottom

pic 2
my fimmings is starting to get strong again, amazing how much this one stretched the stem between the 2 shoots that i fimmed, and i see a little pistil coming out

pic 3
starting to grow really well again, and sweet little pistils is forming

pic 4
this one only got 3 top shoots, but the 2 side shoots is catching up and making up for the lost

cant really get a good picture of the others atm

...

The_Core · Dec 31, 2013

Lulzz your plants look very nice. I need to figure out whats up with mine. Thinking about dropping a humidity dome over my plant to increase humidity and see if that helps out at all. I am not sure what to do. I am thinking to repot my plant, Turn off my fan and see if that balances things out. Not sure.

lulzz · Dec 31, 2013

The_Core said:
Lulzz your plants look very nice. I need to figure out whats up with mine. Thinking about dropping a humidity dome over my plant to increase humidity and see if that helps out at all. I am not sure what to do. I am thinking to repot my plant, Turn off my fan and see if that balances things out. Not sure.

yeah they look ok, a few of the leaf tips got a very mild nute burn, 1-3 mm has turned yellow, but it was like that for some days now and doesn't seem to get worse, next watering im gonna flush again and then start around ½ strength nutes and see where that brings the ec

i got quite a problem atm, my neightbour had been complaining about my ventilator, everything is so loud in this building its impossible to hide any noises, i cant have my big ventilator running now as i might cause trouble by it, at light time its fine but at night when i close the tent to keep it dark, the humidity raises to 70-80 %, now i gotta start over with my ventilation and make it alot more stealth,, fucking crap

sucks about your plants mate, if you got a solid bottom in your tent, try pouring out some litres of water on the ground and let it evaporate

can you show some pics of the plant and the room it in?

The_Core · Dec 31, 2013

I am not thinking its heat stress or Humidity anymore. Because the Humidity is staying at 45% and the light is 5 inches above. The digital thermometer probe is telling me the tent is staying 72-74 degrees at the plants top. None of the new leaves are showing heat stress, just the larger lower leaves. So I am leaning towards cal/mag deficiency because I was using RO water. Even my TAP is only 90 PPM and thats not enough Cal/mag for the plant. I heard BioHeaven and TOPMAX have cal/mag, next feeding I will raise the dosage on those 2 and see if it helps the situation.

I am attaching some pictures. Tell me what you think the situation might be.

The_Core · Dec 31, 2013

lulzz · Dec 31, 2013

The_Core said:
I am not thinking its heat stress or Humidity anymore. Because the Humidity is staying at 45% and the light is 5 inches above. The digital thermometer probe is telling me the tent is staying 72-74 degrees at the plants top. None of the new leaves are showing heat stress, just the larger lower leaves. So I am leaning towards cal/mag deficiency because I was using RO water. Even my TAP is only 90 PPM and thats not enough Cal/mag for the plant. I heard BioHeaven and TOPMAX have cal/mag, next feeding I will raise the dosage on those 2 and see if it helps the situation.

I am attaching some pictures. Tell me what you think the situation might be.

View Image View Image View Image
View Image View Image

yeah it could very well be that, im still a newb myself so i cant say for sure, but it looks like chlorophyll problems caused by micro nutes, as you say

take a look at this site, there is tons of info about different nute problems

http://forum.sensiseeds.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6499

lulzz · Dec 31, 2013

The_Core said:
View Image View Image
View Image
View Image

your bottom looks water proof, next time you have humidity problems try pour our water directly on the bottom, it will evaporate and higher the humid faster than in a tshirt or towel

from what i understood, topmax and bio heaven are pretty mild, try add the recommended dose or 3/4 of it next time, would prolly do the trick

The_Core · Dec 31, 2013

Ya I think I need to step up the dose, If you subtract the tap water at 90 PPM from the 330 I put in, That means only 240 PPM of actual BioBizz was used. That is very low for a 3 week old plant. But with the unknown amount of fertilizer in the soil. I did not want to risk burning my plants up. I guess I will step up the next watering to full dosage. I want to do a foliar spray with BioHeaven and TopMax now because i want to stop the deficiency and not wait until the next watering in 3 days. I posted a picture in the Infirmary. I hope someone can tell me for sure whats up.

lulzz · Dec 31, 2013

The_Core said:
Ya I think I need to step up the dose, If you subtract the tap water at 90 PPM from the 330 I put in, That means only 240 PPM of actual BioBizz was used. That is very low for a 3 week old plant. But with the unknown amount of fertilizer in the soil. I did not want to risk burning my plants up. I guess I will step up the next watering to full dosage. I want to do a foliar spray with BioHeaven and TopMax now because i want to stop the deficiency and not wait until the next watering in 3 days. I posted a picture in the Infirmary. I hope someone can tell me for sure whats up.

hmm, as far as i know, algamic and fish mix are the only 2 bio nutes u can spray on leafes, rest is only for the soil. thats what the biobizz charts tells me, not sure if u can do it without problems

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