passive plant killer

hey, ruben andre! thank you!

i used flora nova bloom at 750 ppm or ec 1.5 plus calcium nitrate at 100 ppm or .2 ec, and magnesium sulfate at 50 ppm or ec .1 in veg and flora nova bloom at various strengths in flower.

by the way, cocoheads, this is a very good program for 100% coco. no deficiencies. rapid veg growth.

turbolaser4528 said:

agreed. delta, i dont mind the rambling homie!!

the 4" pvc going around the room is baller! I was thinking of linking smaller buckets with like 1.5-2 inch pvc connected to a central res whose level is controlled by a float valve, kind of like a modified waterfarm. not exactly passive like you stated, but has some serious potential.

, I guess if the sump connections were strong enough the 4" pvc could support plants in 1-2 gal containers right? maybe even 5gal trees?????

neway

The BENEFITS: more stable solution, fast flowing (12-1800 gph pump) makes more aerobic, can leave for long periods of time (1-2 weeks easy), incredible growth rates id imagine, and adding a powerful air pump would prolly make them biznatches explode!

not to mention NO CHILLER NECCESARY! big plus in my book, as this adds expense, complication and electricity consumption.


this is all just speculation and brainstorming to get a better idea of what will and will not work. do you think that using the media as a wick, if you had to give an educated guess, will work alright?

I know we have to wait till your experiment is done with it, but if you had to guess...lol

take care hope to see those roots soon!

Click to expand...

hey, turbolaser!

i have 2 plants in flower and 6 in veg all growing nicely with media only wicks. the plant i'm about to flower is about 32" and thick.

i am more into "yield" than i am into "passive". i'm not a passive purist and like seeing the results of any experiment involving growing weed but i question the efficacy of a water pump here. what i think i have done here is to "train" the plant to produce more air type roots and less water type. thereby making the plant much less dependent on dissolved o2 in the water supply. the plant i just whacked this morning had to have gotten it's o2 from the roots in the upper container because for a water supply it had nothing but a pool of stagnant solution.

turbolaser4528 said:

thank you, stole concepts and ideas from delta, heath robinson, big-toke and many others im sure. I just put it together and drew it up, Im sure there is much to be improved upon.

as a side note, this system can be extrapolated indefinitely its totally scaleable.

as is one of heath's grows, he has the pvc wrap around the light in a circle with multiple levels and like 90 plants, hes not using coco and doesnt have a water fall though .


Am going to start building this within the next few days, and will post pics and results. Just waiting for some more input




yoo how do you feel about using uniseals for the connections instead delta to get a leak free fit and no perched water table?

Im thinkin a piece of ~1.5" pvc through 2 uniseals; one on the bottom of bucket and one on the top of the 4"pvc for an easy, clean, leak free system. lmk n lets keep the innovation train rollin im feelin like were on to something here, i know DHF had a lot of good things to say about KISS and the wick concept too, and after all the years of krusty buckets an every kind of system he still applauded mistress and people like delta for their new wave creative style of growing. Less machines, more time with plants, a nice mix of hydro and soil, passive and active hydroponics, and therefore i see potential in something similar to this at least for my setup at this time...cheers all

Click to expand...

i don't know much about uniseals as i've never used them, but whatever you use should be nearly flush with the inside bottom of the bucket so as to not trap standing water. the thru fittings i show for the sump were not waterproofed because in my particular application it really doesn't matter because the water is all going to end up in the res anyway. but you notice my standpipe thru fittings are waterproof. the sump fittings can be treated the same way. i've been using those electrical conduit fittings as bulkhead fittings for 30 years. they work because they use machine threads whereas plumbing fittings use tapered pipe thread and won't go all the way down.

delta9nxs said:

hey, turbolaser!

i have 2 plants in flower and 6 in veg all growing nicely with media only wicks. the plant i'm about to flower is about 32" and thick.

i am more into "yield" than i am into "passive". i'm not a passive purist and like seeing the results of any experiment involving growing weed but i question the efficacy of a water pump here. what i think i have done here is to "train" the plant to produce more air type roots and less water type. thereby making the plant much less dependent on dissolved o2 in the water supply. the plant i just whacked this morning had to have gotten it's o2 from the roots in the upper container because for a water supply it had nothing but a pool of stagnant solution.

Click to expand...

true yeah i gotchya, i seem to keep forgetting about the air type roots and the lack of need for aerated solution, guess im so used to it coming from a mostly hydro backround lol my fault

im going to keep the nutrient solution moving in the pvc with a small 500 gph fountain pump to keep things stable for the "ladies" even though it may not be needed, and won't really help o2 levels.

am going to definitely attatch air line to sump, going to the store in a bit to pic up materials and build this sh*t tonite!!! all in theory of course. i would never break any laws and cannabis is the devils weed!!! lol

any advice for the build?

will be using 2x6"s for support, 4 or 6" pvc depending on whats available, 3/4" pvc for the sump pipe? Ill try and keep your original design as much as possible (hope you dont mind and will keep everything circulated, filtered, and the air line to the sump/wick/pvc whatever its called,....nevermind ill just post pics when im done, ill do a separate thread unless you want it here, yall should be seeing it in the hydro or coco forum i dont know where its more appropriate.

either way, ill drop a link for those who are intrested. ill still be watching.......waiting......lurking....lol to see those pics of yours, have a good one see yall l8r

damn, for 30 years dude? got ourselves an O.G. right here, much respect.

will use the electrical conduit fittings as bulkheads as recommended. thnx again

turbolaser4528 said:

can build stand out of 2x4's

I was thinking off just laying the 4" pvc on the ground in the basement and maintain a low res level with a float valve because it'll be easier than trying to elevate everything and have it angled and what not
. ill draw it up real quick.


here goes:


seems pretty simple and easy to make, cut 2x4"-2x8's"s to desired length/height and sit bucket on-top of that and the pipe, should be plenty stable.


ill have to redraw this system without the waterfall, or better yet, build it then take pics right? take care yall

Click to expand...

this is really close to what i've been thinking about. i don't think i would angle the pipe as i believe the sumps would function more evenly with the same water depth. that depth should be as high as possible in the pipe without eliminating the air gap. for temperature control it might be better to get the pipe off the floor since this wouldn't use any kind of insulator. to maintain constant level a 5 gal bucket linked by hose to the 4" pipe with a float valve fed from a volume tank.

while i'm on the subject of volume i want to talk about how much water can go through one of these ppk's in a day. i top the standpipes every day at lights on. my reservoirs, since i raised the level to 6", hold 4.59 gals of water. 15" diameter = 7.5 radius x 7.5 x 3.1416 x 6' = 1060.29 cu in divided by 231 (number of cu in in a gal) = 4.59.

some of the larger plants are now 2" down every day. pi x radius sq x 4" = 706.86 cu in / 231 = 3.06 gals. a difference of 1.53 gals per day. that's a lot of water. how much is attributable to evaporation and how much to transpiration is anyone's guess but since the reservoirs are almost sealed i think the plant is getting most of it. most evaporation has to occur through the medium. i view this as another aid to water transport.

a piece of 4" pvc pipe will hold about .6528 gals per linear ft so compute your volume tank needs to meet whatever interval you want between having to mix nutes. i think i need about a hundred gals plus the res volume.

turbolaser4528 said:

damn, for 30 years dude? got ourselves an O.G. right here, much respect.

will use the electrical conduit fittings as bulkheads as recommended. thnx again

Click to expand...

i had to answer this first.

i've only been growing weed 10 years+, but i originally used the fittings in the salt water specimen industry for 20 years. some old air force machinist showed me the trick.

btw, i know you must be doing mental age calculations by now so i'll tell. i'm 59. lived in the haight late 60's, early 70's. i'm so old i fart dust.

turbolaser4528 said:

true yeah i gotchya, i seem to keep forgetting about the air type roots and the lack of need for aerated solution, guess im so used to it coming from a mostly hydro backround lol my fault

im going to keep the nutrient solution moving in the pvc with a small 500 gph fountain pump to keep things stable for the "ladies" even though it may not be needed, and won't really help o2 levels.

am going to definitely attatch air line to sump, going to the store in a bit to pic up materials and build this sh*t tonite!!! all in theory of course. i would never break any laws and cannabis is the devils weed!!! lol

any advice for the build?

will be using 2x6"s for support, 4 or 6" pvc depending on whats available, 3/4" pvc for the sump pipe? Ill try and keep your original design as much as possible (hope you dont mind and will keep everything circulated, filtered, and the air line to the sump/wick/pvc whatever its called,....nevermind ill just post pics when im done, ill do a separate thread unless you want it here, yall should be seeing it in the hydro or coco forum i dont know where its more appropriate.

either way, ill drop a link for those who are intrested. ill still be watching.......waiting......lurking....lol to see those pics of yours, have a good one see yall l8r

Click to expand...

i've done quite a bit of active hydro and have never grown in dirt. the pump certainly won't hurt anything and could possibly encourage beneficials.

i like the idea of the airline. it wouldn't have to flow much. makes me wonder what a pure o2 line from a cylinder would do.

as far as building it is concerned, some thing simple and strong.

i don't mind if you put anything here, i consider this to be an open experiment. all ideas are welcome.

If you all haven't read this article already, I think you'll find it interesting.

http://www.hydrofarm.com/articles/AVRDC_system.php

i have a question for those growing in 100% coco. i now have 3 plants in all coco and the first one has really taken off. i notice a lot of people using 2 gal and 3 gal containers. i'm wondering what kind of yield you get with what veg time in them. thanks

hey, ljb! the asian vegetable conference paper. it is one of the ones i studied before i started this. i'm glad you put it up, everyone should read it.

delta9nxs;3081304]this is really close to what i've been thinking about. i don't think i would angle the pipe as i believe the sumps would function more evenly with the same water depth. that depth should be as high as possible in the pipe without eliminating the air gap. for temperature control it might be better to get the pipe off the floor since this wouldn't use any kind of insulator. to maintain constant level a 5 gal bucket linked by hose to the 4" pipe with a float valve fed from a volume tank.

WAIT. so you are envisioning a closed 4" pvc loop, which has a float valve drilled into it, that gets its water from a 5 gallon bucket, that also has a float valve and gets its water from a larger tank? I gotta draw it up idk if were talking about the same thing.


while i'm on the subject of volume i want to talk about how much water can go through one of these ppk's in a day. i top the standpipes every day at lights on. my reservoirs, since i raised the level to 6", hold 4.59 gals of water. 15" diameter = 7.5 radius x 7.5 x 3.1416 x 6' = 1060.29 cu in divided by 231 (number of cu in in a gal) = 4.59.

some of the larger plants are now 2" down every day. pi x radius sq x 4" = 706.86 cu in / 231 = 3.06 gals. a difference of 1.53 gals per day. that's a lot of water. how much is attributable to evaporation and how much to transpiration is anyone's guess but since the reservoirs are almost sealed i think the plant is getting most of it. most evaporation has to occur through the medium. i view this as another aid to water transport.

a piece of 4" pvc pipe will hold about .6528 gals per linear ft so compute your volume tank needs to meet whatever interval you want between having to mix nutes. i think i need about a hundred gals plus the res volume.[/QUOTE]

thnx for the calculations, helped a lot

delta9nxs said:

i had to answer this first.

i've only been growing weed 10 years+, but i originally used the fittings in the salt water specimen industry for 20 years. some old air force machinist showed me the trick.

btw, i know you must be doing mental age calculations by now so i'll tell. i'm 59. lived in the haight late 60's, early 70's. i'm so old i fart dust.

Click to expand...

Ahh your 59 years young! I never would have guessed, your pretty crafty for an old man lol imkiddin of course

delta9nxs said:

i've done quite a bit of active hydro and have never grown in dirt. the pump certainly won't hurt anything and could possibly encourage beneficials.

i like the idea of the airline. it wouldn't have to flow much. makes me wonder what a pure o2 line from a cylinder would do.

Damnnn, getting strait o2 in tank form, hard to get or na?



as far as building it is concerned, some thing simple and strong.

definitely

i don't mind if you put anything here, i consider this to be an open experiment. all ideas are welcome.

Click to expand...

Well thank you, I shall submit my posts when they are ready. god speed captain!

i think i got it figured out pretty well. drew this up after a nice bong rip haha the basic idea is to go with a smaller pvc size, and larger containers or totes. These can be any size, (i prefer square, less chance of leaks) and everything in this system is customizable to fit your space.

Id prolly go with like 6 15-20 gal totes connected by 1.5" pvc. This makes a giant circulating res (via water pump) and the airline to the sump to force more air/water up through the medium (coco/perlite is my choice) vert lighting

will be building something simlar shortly



lol

"WAIT. so you are envisioning a closed 4" pvc loop, which has a float valve drilled into it, that gets its water from a 5 gallon bucket, that also has a float valve and gets its water from a larger tank? I gotta draw it up idk if were talking about the same thing."

I was thinking of a pvc (4” because of cost, 6” is expensive) pipe system, closed or not, plumbed to a single control bucket with a float valve in it, no float valve necessary in the pvc as long as you plumb as low as possible and have the bottom of the bucket and the bottom of the pipe on the same level. Come out of the lowest part of the pipe and into the lowest part of the bucket. A large volume tank supplying the bucket.

This looks functional but I think flexible hose instead of rigid pvc to connect would be easier to build. Similar to rdwc setups. Also you show the pvc going into the sidewall about half way up. I would connect at the very bottom and install a drain. I'm just going to use 5/8” garden hose for mine but I won't have the water pump flow volume to deal with. If your pump overwhelms the supply tubing you could pump it into a gravity overflow container that feeds your system and simultaneously returns excess water to the res. This would prevent accidental spills if a return line gets obstructed. It would get some circulation and keep the res aerated. But I really believe this will function fine without a water pump. Remember the water consumption figures above. Water will be steadily moving through the system on its own.

Another thing to consider is whether you want to turn or rotate your plants. If you do the airline as you show it will prevent this if your totes have closed tops. You might want to consider installing the airline through the top container somehow and have pop off connections so you can turn the plants easily.

What size pots are you going to use? All coco?

one other thing right now. some of the research papers i've read suggest a max res depth of 6" as that is how far ambient o2 will penetrate naturally without aeration due to atmospheric partial pressures. just more bs to think about. if you are aerating somehow it really doesn't matter.

i'll be thinking about this.

first, the root plug from yesterdays plant. better root development than #1. this one is all turface and top watered occasionally to keep the upper medium moist.

next this is the first all coco plant. 3 wks from transplant. 20 different pruning cuts have been made so far. finger for scale. no cloth wick.

turbolaser, here is another view of the conduit fittings, before and after i cut them. then an assembled sump. you can get o rings and washers to waterproof it from auto parts stores. or you could just silicone it as it's all clean, new plastic. teflon tape helps get it all the way down.

i did the drawing on "delta" sketchup. this would support 2 gal containers.

turbolaser, one last thought for now.

if you kept your design modular, as you show with the tubs, and your connections flexible, with some slack (hose), then you would still maintain a little plant mobility. such as in distance from the lights.

i don't move my lights, i move the plants.

can't wait to see what you've come up with!

Thanks for sharing your ideas, I'm still a little surprised that #1 worked. Do you think the inner (5gal) bucket needs to be flat or would 2L soda bottles (upside-down) work? They would be attached to 1" PVC and the water would be kept below the bottles.

hi, themonarch! i'm surprised that it worked too!

here is a link you might like. instead of the t connections, you could use 1" slip couplers with a straight piece of 1" tubing for a sump.

http://www.hydroponicsonline.com/11plan01.htm