simple hydro questions...

I'm trying to weigh out the benefits of hydro vs. soil being used in my setup. Hydro is said to produce larger, faster yields which is why it sounded like an interesting route.

For my example, we will assume this is a smaller sized DWC hydro setup. How do you run such a setup? would you need an EC/PH meter? how much would that cost? is it possible to go without? Do you essentially just mix up new nutrient solution every so often and replace the water in the res?

it seems like hydro would turn out cheaper than soil if you did everything right, aren't you just essentially using the same nutes but minus the soil cost?

any info would be appreciated, thx.

Start here

EC and pH pens can be had in the $20-$30 up to several hundred dollars. I use $5 pH test drops from the aquarium store and spent my money on a BlueLab EC Truncheon.

The smaller the bucket and/or the more plants per means more violent swings in pH and EC and thus more maintenance. Larger tubs, fewer plants means less maintenance.

hmmm, that linked seemed to place the importance on getting a ph pen. You say, that yours works out ok with the 5 dollar test drops and you would rather have a TDS/EC meter though?

Do ppl usually pick one or the other like that? I'm looking for cheapness and simplicity that still manages good results. If i don't have to buy the meters to get results, I'd rather not.

I grew in hydroponics for 12 years without any kind of meter and had excelent results. I just recently (last month) bought a PH pen because I am getting older and wasn't trusting my eyes any more and was also curious about what exact range I had been keeping my ph at. All I really learned was that I had wasted $45 on a ph pen and could have just gone along just fine without one for 12 more years. Most hydro stores have a ph test kit with the drops and a vial. That is all you really need at all in my opinion.
You can look at my grow diary link on the bottom of my post and see what kind of results you can get with just a dropper kit.
As for the cost of doing hydro, I would have to say that the initial cost is much more than with soil. The long term costs are about the same. The results are where I think it kicks soils ass.


Happy Growing.

When I started my first DWC it was impressed upon me that I'd need to control pH and EC. The reading I did here and elsewhere suggested heavily that pens of any type (Be they legitimate EC and pH pens or bogus so called "TDS" and "PPM" pens) are toys and not to be trusted.

Test drops are trustable, professional equipment. They kept my marine tanks thriving for years. An environment far more pH sensitive than weed. I'm talking thousands of dollars in corals, anemones, shrimps, crabs, individual fish at $200 and more. What do we pay for a seed? $5-$10?

The only meter that drew purely positive reviews was the Bluelab EC Truncheon. 5 year warranty, no calibrating required. VERY low maintenance (wash tips occasionally). Not cheap at $130 or so but, if I was going to spend money on equipment, I wanted equipment that was worth the money.

Of the pens, Milwaukee sucked the least followed by Oakton and then the scrapings at the bottom of the barrel under which Hanna hides.

I read someone saying something about auto-buffering nutes that correct ph for you? are those any good? What is the cheapest yet still effective nute line-up/regimen? the example setup will involve veg and flower periods.

and in the link you provided, when he says "0grow-8micro-16bloom" does this refer to N-P-K?

Will this be your first ever grow, or just your first hydro grow?

TheGreenBastard said:

Will this be your first ever grow, or just your first hydro grow?

Click to expand...

just theoretical.

Ahh, well to answer your question about cost, soil is usually cheaper. Other than that if you have the proper equipment, skills, and attention to detail, then hydro is the way to go. If you do it right hydro can give you much better results. Though for most first time growers I suggest the tried and true method of sticking it in some dirt and letting it do its thing.

Marijuanasaur said:

"0grow-8micro-16bloom" does this refer to N-P-K?

Click to expand...

No.

Only, in a kinda sorta round-about, way ... almost.

The "0" is the Grow bottle (and should be the middle number, grumble, grumble) the remaining numbers are milliliter per gallon

Once upon a time, someone (Ed Rosenthal, Mel Frank?) determined optimal NPK levels for weed. Those of us using GH Flora series (a 3 part system of Micro-Grow-Bloom bottles) realized those numbers could never be approximated using all 3 bottles. BUT, if the Grow formula was removed, you could come real close.

It's been awhile but, I believe 0-5-10 is closer to the original NPK formula and that 0-8-16 is an aggressive formula but, Lucas worked out a plan that seems to work for many.

Hmmm...

Interesting stuff about Ph & EC pens. I would have liked to have bought a Truncheon but wound up buying a Hanna Combo meter (Damn FreezerBoy! Hanna isn't that bad!). So far it has treated me well but I was suspicious about costly pens when compared to drops also. But some of the people at another forum helped talk me into it (before I gained more knowledge and experience on my own) and now there is no turning back. I haven't done a side-by-side comparison with the GH drop kit yet but will be doing one shortly. I do like the convenience of the pens, less messy and fairly quick when compared to drops/manual test kits. As for one being better than the other, I doubt it. One dude said he grew for twelve years without the use of a pen. It's hard to argue against 12 years of experience.

As for the original purpose of this thread:

I'd start out in hydro if I were you. No soil to fool around with after the grow and Hydro isn't the monster that a lot of people claim it to be. I've had no disastrous results, no immediate or instant problems that would have killed my entire crop in a matter of hours, etc. I'm sure a few people do experience some disasters the first time out of the gate but I would say they were the exception and not the rule. Hydro is more expensive then soil growing in my opinion though. The difference isn't so major though unless you have to have the best PH/EC pen out there.

Main differences that I can think of between hydro and soil:

Soil can be less expensive and the plants don't have to be kept up with as much as plants in a hydro setup (some may disagree of course). Again, this is based on the experience of the individual grower. An experienced hydro vet doesn't have to constantly check up on his grow. It would be wiser for a new grower to be vigilant and keep a close eye on the system. Most problems in hydro stem from new growers abusing the plants by giving them an overdose of nutrients.

No soil to deal with when growing hydroponically, pretty big advantage if you're growing a lot of plants. I think plants veg faster in hydro but I'm sure there are some dirt growers out there that could match the vigorous growth experienced in hydro. So that means a lot of these parameters can be canceled out through experience. I think the grower has more overall control if they grow hydroponically. They can accurately monitor overall nutrient levels, root temperature and Ph when compared with soil grows. The plants can be just as mobile hydroponically, depending on the system you choose. But this means more time and effort so it's a trade off.

Soil buds tend to taste better but that is another highly debated subject. I've seen and tasted organic/non-organic soil-grown plants and they easily match the size and beauty of anything grow hydroponically. Whether indoor or outdoor soil buds can taste great or taste like garbage just as any hydro-grown buds can. In a blind taste test most people would be unable to identify the hydro from the soil-grown buds. I'm sure there are a few experts out there that could, I'm just not one of them...yet.

Both have positive and negative aspects so it really comes down to individual preference. If you're a first time grower and are a technically minded person I would choose hydro. If you're a new grower and more on the mellow side of things (a bit lazy) then I would go with soil. Just my take on things.

me personally used to grow without any fancy equipment.

i used to make my own feed mixture, and just give them that without measuring ec levels.

i too use test strips for ph

in todays world i have a blue lab truncheon, and its great. i also have 2 ph pens. 1 of good quality, and expensive in my book. another which is quite basic. both do their job as good as the eye, or better imo.

i still use my test strips, but if i am having problems with my ph dropping too low, or the strips showing a lowish ph the colour doesnt change, then my pen comes out

also in my experience, i love a hydro. easy and fast

blue lab = 100 $$$. pen is around 30-60 $$$ depending where you get it from

Good post.

Thanks for all the info everyone. Does this mean that using the GH Flora series, that you cannot adjust NPK levels? Don't growers reduce nitrogen gradually to stop stretch or something?

Flora, sort of yes (to a degree) FloraNova, no.

FloraMicro is 5-0-1. FloraBloom is 0-5-4. By reducing the Micro you reduce N. Reduce it too much you may suffer trace element deficiencies. If you mean adjust npk separately, then no to Flora, too.

i run a flood table and dwc without monitoring the ph and ec i have a nice 3 way meter i dont use it tho.. just mix up flora nova bloom and tap water and im straight not sure if that would work for you cause my tap is pretty good like 30 ppm but keep shit simple and you can hydro without anything but water nutes buckets hydroton just follow directions on bottle start a quarter of what they say watch your shit they will tell you what they need(more nutes or not) hydro is as simple or hard as you make it

My first serious grow in years was early last year. I decided to go hydro and made myself a 4 pot dripper. I ran GH 3 part plus all their supplements (i know.. i know) and followed their nutrient caluculator on their site. I monitored and faithfully adjusted my pH as well as my nute levels. It was a very fun and very geeky experience. I'm switching over to DWC (bubble buckets) for my next grow because I want to have more individual control of each plant as well as being able to move my plants around etc. I'm also changing to the Vande Zwaan nutes (got their free sample pack.. about 400buks worth free!). If I don't like the results, trust me, I'll be right back with good ole GH (or maybe try even something else). I love the fiddliness of hydro and the results do rock. Go for it.. pay attention to detail and it will come out in the end. Here's a couple shots of the results of my first hydro grow..

mgk

If you're looking for a cheap easy hydro run....look at hempy buckets. Couldn't get any easier.

Hey Krebs,

What details should one pay close attention to?

the Corsican said:

Hey Krebs,

What details should one pay close attention to?

Click to expand...

Well, the way I look at it is.. as much as you care to take on.. in order of importance, I think

1 pH.. check it often.. smaller your res, the more often to check and adjust
2 nutrient level and change.. I read some guys who say dont change it, just add.. I don't subscribe to that. I think new nutes re-balances the nutrient composition. I change once a week.
3 keep your garden as tidy as possible. Dead leaves etc just invite pests etc. If they're looking sub prime, pinch em and get rid of em.

After that, I think the more you put in, the more you get out. My friend grows great produce and does not pay near the attention to detail that I do, so it's what ever your comfortable with. Have fun and know you've got a huge reservoir of knowledge here to draw from. Don't be afraid to ask for advice, but don't follow someone blindly unless you see some results they have that backs their advice. I'm no old time by any means (guess that's all relative) and don't profess to know it all, but I've seen some horrible advice given by well intended people that have had disastrous results. I think the best thing to do is 1. ask 2. read 3. read some more 4. consider all data and act on the issue. Have fun mixed in with all that and ur good to go!

mgk