thes new led's is out scaling the hps and mh with a prety big deal

[Snook]

I have been running a led grow for a few years now. Initially, led was rejected in the US market because all the cheap one watt one spectrum Chinese assemblies hit and proved to be quite disappointing. These lights as well as the early UFO 90watt lights were quite useful for veg. uses such as clones and seedlings, but not so for flowering applications.
Thus, LEDs were quickly rejected by experienced/knowledgeable growers in favor of traditional mh/hps set-ups.
But for some, LEDs were just too attractive to simply walk away from. The promise of greatly reduced heat output and less costly electric bills just kept calling me back. I also stuck with my then state-of-the-art 90watt UFO's, and began to gain knowledge and experience.
To my surprise I was able to get some fine finished buds of Himalayan Gold which I'd been growing from Greenhouse Seeds stock. Now, I won't claim these buds equalled ones grown under a 1000watt lamp, but they were more than decent. And this was achieved using 4 90watt units in series. With one watt diode. BUT they were multi-spectrum units. In 2010 this meant 6 spectrums.
Thereafter I moved into the advanced led line, purchasing their diamond series 880watt 11 spectrum unit. I set it up as per directions and independent study. Such a powerful light has to be about 20-30 inches distant from the plants, or they will experience a sort of light bleaching effect. Also, some buds can become "burned", which upon magnified examination, presents clearly as " unnatural bursts" of many pistils cramming in & out where the light is too close and intense. So, clearly, I was dealing with a far more powerful yet subtle light source than I had ever used indoors. And in thirty-plus years of indoor growing, that is a lot of systems!
In any event, current LED technology has arrived. There are several great companies out there, and the smaller 200-400 watt units are what I use in 3x3 spaces. The canopy penetration is excellent with all my units, and even the 300watt has to be at least 8-12 inches distant from the plants to avoid too much brightness.
Yes, the LED lights are a considerable investment, and no one should feel they're a must have. Traditional lighting of all kinds work great in thousands of situations. And I personally think CFLs are still the best, most economic means of just growing plants. They are cheap, easily available, And get the job done in veg.
But 4 years into my LED explorations, I will never use traditional lighting again but by necessity in flowering chambers. LED produces the best indoor bud I've ever grown, hands down. As close to outdoor as I've ever seen, smelt, tasted & handled. In both my organic soil & NFT hydro grows, it beats out my 1000's & 400's. That's it. Game over. I hated to pack them up after all those years, but it was clear.
The plants flower faster and fuller.All the strains (8) really finished richly and full of fragrance. Resin production is always excellent. Some strains finished up to two weeks ahead of my traditional lights, most seem to finish on the predicted schedules.Depending on strain characteristics, bud densities were virtually equal to outdoor results.
In summation, if you can afford the cost and time to explore LED lighting, I endorse them without reservation. Look at all the companies and options out there. There are a lot now and every month seems to bring new developments and products. And seriously, for most personal grow applications, the smaller wattage units coming out are the cheapest yet and work great. Hopes this helps someone out there. I will post a few photos on another post of actual results.

Listen, I would like to (and can) make the investment in LEDs, monetarily but right now, with no credible proof of production (that I have seen), I do not want to toss the $$$s invested in ballasts and bulbs and the time, to 'give LEDs a go'.

I've seen little documented proof of your (and others) claims of, = HID production with like power lights. I'll wait for those pics. maybe some other than those blue/purple pics I've seen from LED grows. grows from beginning to end.

 

[zerocool21]

My main goal is minimal footprint electrical, and home alteration. Renting so no mode pug and play units are key. My grow needs to be virtually invisible. I like the idea of lower heat control cost, fewer bulb replacement. And some solid dank kolas..

just remember its your first time so dont expect great things. although it sounds like you have a dialed in regimen so that will help but theres still tons to learn.

as for a light the one the thread is about looks promising but its freshly on the market so who knows how it performs. the lumi is a solid unit many have been pleased with, havent had the chance to see the advanced so idk. if your just looking for a plug an play you really should check out the 315w cmh and also rocket plasma lights 230 and a 470w (releasing soon) just more options for ya.https://www.icmag.com/ic/images/smilies/tiphat.gif
just review the shit out of everything before splurging an jumping the gun.

 

[MmjBudClown]

I have 2 weeks to shop around, I've asked around the grow shops here but they aren't really any help.

 

[Oily Farmer]

I'm still in veg, 2 plants at 12 weeks, 3 at 9 weeks, and 1 at 8 weeks, my tallest plant is 11" tall shortest is 9". The older 2 were stunted by bad soil (MG), once I got them in coco they came around. I have my lights at 16" main light, and 13" inthe UFo's. I started the first 2 outside and they were shocked again when I brought them in and put them under the 360w LEd at around 8" away. Had intense ruffling and clawing from that. Live & learn.

I read the post where you described your grow setup, and I have several questions.
- Are you serious when stating the number of weeks in vegetation?
- Why such a long veg. period?
- Are you intentionally prolonging the veg.? If so, why?

When I've used dual 125w CFL grow lamps, the weeks from seed drop to flowering never exceeded nine weeks (seven nodes), approximately seven weeks (nine to ten nodes) when I use Metal Halide (adjustable 250/400/600/660). In both situations, with the exception of weak plants, the plants were at least 12 inches tall.
We have the same approximate sized grow tents, with mine having a grow table inside (without the air pot containers or watering system, I use Coco Star 4 Liter grow in a bag with coco coir (which I highly recommend) and hand water). http://www.growtool.net/fileadmin/medien/Download/growSYSTEMairpot/growSYSTEM_airpot_1.2.png

I look forward to reading your experience with using LED's during flowering.

Lastly, although reduced power consumption and lower temperatures remain top selling points when comparing LED's to HID's (High Intensity Discharge), the LED's still fall short when comparing yields. If one removes the key selling points, is the cost worth the expense? If so, happy farming...

Cheers...

 

[MmjBudClown]

Here in Colorado I can legally grow 6 plants it is very common for people to veg up to 12 weeks. Most people are trying to reach the goal of 1 lb (448 grams) per plant. I have two friends who have gotten close 12 oz (336 grams) and 14 oz (392 grams). The 14 oz came from a 3000w HPS, 12 plant, DWC, perpetual grow veged at 8 weeks, the 12 oz came from a 20,000w+ HPS, 65 plant, soil, top fed, single cycle grow veged at 90 days. I was planning to flip the lights 2 weeks ago when the DWC farmer came by and suggested that I wait until the reached 16" in height. My tallest is 11" now, most of the plants have been topped once, and and I thinned the foliage a couple weeks ago to let some light into the lower branches. They have fully bushed out again and now look similar to short ornamental shrubbery.

 

[Snook]

I look forward to reading your experience with using LED's during flowering.

Lastly, although reduced power consumption and lower temperatures remain top selling points when comparing LED's to HID's (High Intensity Discharge), the LED's still fall short when comparing yields. If one removes the key selling points, is the cost worth the expense? If so, happy farming...

Cheers...

I too 'look forward' to see your results. Good Luck. I hope I'm wrong this time and you hit a home run.

Most 'members' that promote LEDs all give the same rhetoric... 'more yield than 1k HID' but no pics. someone in the PPK threads says "pics, or it didn't happen". He's dead on here in LED discussions.. don't forget 'time' in "worth the expense". wasting it.

 

[KTF19XX]

The best there is http://www.budmaster.co.uk

 

[MmjBudClown]

I'm growing for fun, no cash crop here. It's all personal smoke and for experience. All plants are grown from regular seeds, and have not been sexed. So there will probably be a culling coming soon. I'm running into nute issues, now though, think I have a salt build up. Was trying to flush with a very low ppm waterings, and started to get bright green leaves. So I gave a light feeding 260 ppm. I got burning along the edges of the blades of my leaves, and some curving not clawing in the new growth. How do I upload photos?

 

[MmjBudClown]

Also I ph to between 5.7-6.0, my water from the tap is 8.1, I run it through water filters not RO, and the ppm get down to around 58. When I was flushing I was using distilled water from the store, I can't do that regularly though because I walk everywhere I go, and 2 miles with 8 gallons of water is no joke...

 

[MmjBudClown]

My runoff came out at last feeding ph 6.43 max. 6.1 min., ppms were 980 max. 540 low. What went in was 286 ppm at 6.1 ph. (Overshot a little with the ph up)

 

[Snook]

I'm growing for fun, no cash crop here. It's all personal smoke and for experience. All plants are grown from regular seeds, and have not been sexed. So there will probably be a culling coming soon. I'm running into nute issues, now though, think I have a salt build up. Was trying to flush with a very low ppm waterings, and started to get bright green leaves. So I gave a light feeding 260 ppm. I got burning along the edges of the blades of my leaves, and some curving not clawing in the new growth. How do I upload photos?

growing for fun/myself makes the LED gamble even more risky,
until someone convinces me with a good yielding grow documented with pics..

upload pics: create a new thread, 'reply' or 'quote' to a post: scroll down a little on the input screen and see the 'attachment' button, click take you to BROWSE screen, browse (your computer or whatever device you're using), find the pic, highlight it and select it. you will be brought back to the input screen where you hit 'upload', once uploaded, you can also 'browse' for more pics before uploading.. there are a few more less obvious contortions one can go thru but learn as you go.

I don't do dirt and have no first hand experience with flushing but I hear many flushing with just phed water.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

If ur flushing to get runoff and reduce ppm of medium its best to use a light solution like u did mmjbudclown, It pulls out more nutrients than just water. Plain water is for feeding at the end to reduce ppm when getting close to harvest without having to get runoff. That's if we are talking soil. If coco then don't use plain water at the end, stick with the low nutrients at coco ratios.
gl

 

[MmjBudClown]

I'm in coco, haven't heard of coco ratios, and my feedings were all over the place when I first started I'm, trying to get that run off ppm under control, the plants only want water every third day. The plants whose ppm are over 600 are the ones showing the mutations, and burn. So in coco what's a general ppm/ph level to shoot for?

 

[zerocool21]

I'm in coco, haven't heard of coco ratios, and my feedings were all over the place when I first started I'm, trying to get that run off ppm under control, the plants only want water every third day. The plants whose ppm are over 600 are the ones showing the mutations, and burn. So in coco what's a general ppm/ph level to shoot for?

there is no general ppm for plants each varies depending on strain. now you are measuring ppm is that in tds or ec? for ph i like to stay 5.8-6.0 ish.

if your having a build up issue then just use strait water until your ec is at levels the plant can handle if not your just wasting ferts down the drain while trying to get your ec down. what is the ec your feeding them at? knowing whats going in an coming out will help you dial in your strain for your setup.


i dont get the why m.meds is saying that the same method wont work for coco as soil, its just a different media with higher cec content. the coco just will have a much shorter flushing time as it has less cations to store/remove. its the same reason you have to feed coco more often as it has less cec. if you look at the c.e.c. of different mediums you can clearly see a direct correlation between flushing times and the c.e.c. of them.

with that said id feed at full strenght to the end as thats when were putting on the most weight, then just flush for the amount of time for the type of media used.

that light kfx linked looks fuckin amazing 2k par @ 2'. anyone have links if there in the usa?

ill see if i can post a pic of a previous grow i did for ya.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

I'm in coco, haven't heard of coco ratios, and my feedings were all over the place when I first started I'm, trying to get that run off ppm under control, the plants only want water every third day. The plants whose ppm are over 600 are the ones showing the mutations, and burn. So in coco what's a general ppm/ph level to shoot for?

I respectfully disagree with a few points that zerocool is making after ur post im responding too now. Let me explain.

Coco coirs cation exchange capacity (cec) is how it holds and releases certain nutrients, its how it is, look it up for more scientific answer, I just understand how it works. So coco releases more K, and draws in mg, and ca. That's why coco nutrients are tailored to have less K and more ca mg.

If u don't feed this way then the nutrients start to become un available. Not that u need more just they cant be used because they aren't in the right ratio to each other.

So if u use straight water in coco which should be never, then ur changing the ratio and locking out nutrients.

So now lets go into ec a bit. EC is the measurement all meters use to check the concentration of nutrient salts in ur feed water, they then convert to ppm. The problem is there are several conversion factors, the common ones being 1 ec =500ppm or 1ec =700ppm. So I like to use ec because its universal.

So after explaining that Ive studied coco for years now and follow the advice of the masters that came before me, and I will share what ive learned, no plant needs more than the 1.2ec at 5.8ph to get the best buds and the best yields that ive ever seen on the net or in person. So to help clarify 1.2 ec is 600ppm on the 500 scale or 840ppm on the 700 scale. Use a nutrient that is tailored for coco, any are fine, I use gh micro at 6ml a gal and bloom at 9ml a gal, in ro water, and don't have to change ph comes out 5.9ish everytime.

 

[MmjBudClown]

My meter uses the NaCl-500 scale. For reference, when I was first given nutes was also given a recipe for 5 gal. I asked today it contains no cal/mag at all. Original recipe was coming out around 980 ppm, feed the older plants three times with that, younger plants got half that.then cut back to around 560 ppm a few weeks back. Was still having issues around ten days ago gave the ultra light feeding 85 ppm in distilled water, twice, and feed at 280 ppm yesterday, when all runoff readings were taken.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

My meter uses the NaCl-500 scale. For reference, when I was first given nutes was also given a recipe for 5 gal. I asked today it contains no cal/mag at all. Original recipe was coming out around 980 ppm, feed the older plants three times with that, younger plants got half that.then cut back to around 560 ppm a few weeks back. Was still having issues around ten days ago gave the ultra light feeding 85 ppm in distilled water, twice, and feed at 280 ppm yesterday, when all runoff readings were taken.

We are in the wrong area to be addressing this but ill post one more time here for ya but I suggest u start a thread in coco coir forum to get coco advice, theres plenty of guys over there eager to help that know the basics pretty well. I like to pop in there and help at times too since I use coco.

So what nutrients ur using is important, they all pretty much have ca and mg, its just at what ratios, see. 980 on a 500 scale is approaching 2ec, almost double what they need. so shoot for 600, and use a nutrient made for coco or the recipe I suggested that way u know ur getting the right ratio of ca and mg , to K. that whats important in coco.

 

[MmjBudClown]

K

 

[zerocool21]

i do agree with mmeds for the majority of what hes saying, while we might have different opinions its still very solid advice for ya. i 100% agree with the ec hes giving u to stay around , its going to vary slightly depending on co2 and light choices but thats right where u should shoot an fine tune dialing in from there. i highly suggest you keep a log book of what goes in every watering time,temp,ec,ph everything you can measure same with run off it will be a life saver if something is out of wack that u cant figure out so others can just look at it an have much more info to base there answer on.

with the no strait water to coco changing the ratio i dont see it as example if the ratio is just for example 15-15-15 your just diluting the concentration of all back to safe ranges so it could be say 10-10-10 after flushing. if all ratios were where they need to be i just dont see how thats an issue. maybe im missing something?

highly suggest mmjbud that you read read read on feeding regimens, as if you have a regimen from a friend thats already dialed in you shouldnt have these issues imo. even if you werent having issues its very usefull to see how it all works.

heres a pic of one of my previous led grows it did have some over feeding an Ntox so not a show stopper but still decent. two separate lights were used for the lighting effect.
if the light this thread is about can produce same or better ill likely get one.

 

[zerocool21]

Not the best but came out nice