So how do you use this system with plants in the room? Im not saying its not effective but from what I read you need to use high output fans to distribute the heat evenly. So do you then recommend not using the fans? just the propane hi output heater and sensors?
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Broad Mite and Spider Mite IPM for Cannabis (lets get a convo going)
- Thread starter caredrivensf
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So how do you use this system with plants in the room? Im not saying its not effective but from what I read you need to use high output fans to distribute the heat evenly. So do you then recommend not using the fans? just the propane hi output heater and sensors?
I have done it on 8 foot trees in a room with 10 foot ceilings. No problem, no losses at all. You are correct to raise the pants off the floor if possible, as heat rises, and the lowest temps will be at floor level. Heat should be distributed as evenly as possible in a large room, and monitored with multiple thermometers. As 120 F is somewhat overkill, a couple degrees off one way or another will not make a difference. 118-122 will be fine. As I mentioned, my buddy fell asleep and left his on at 122 F for 6 hours with no damage. This was with GG4, and they are thriving now.
Wow, dude, I have already mentioned that several times in this thread, including on this page. NO FANS, unless you have plants on a table and want some air movement under the tables, for reasons unknown to me. Hot air blowing directly on leaves will damage some of them, but will not kill the plant. Also, always use silica, as that makes plants more heat and pest resistant. Plants should also be well hydrated before a heat treatment. And I don't recommend propane for safety reasons. Electric space heaters with thermistors removed, or outdoor metal halide lights sold at Home Depot, which serve as heaters and supplemental metal halide lighting:
Lithonia Lighting Commercial Grade 150-Watt Outdoor Bronze Metal Halide Flood Light
Model # OFLC 150M TB LPI M4
Internet # 203223609
These work really well, and are multi-purpose: heat & light. Point them at the bottom of your plants, and turn those popcorn buds into something more worthwhile.
To find out how to remove thermistors from electric space heaters, go to broad mite thread, thread tools, "search this thread", "advanced search", "thermistors".
Sorry Retro, even your government disagrees with you, from the USDA--http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/plants/manuals/ports/downloads/treatment.pdf
"Vapor Heat (VH) and Forced Hot Air (FHA) treatments use heated air to warm
fruit to temperatures that are lethal to target pests, primarily fruit flies.
Generally, VH treatment differs from FHA only in the relative humidity of the
air in the treatment chamber; higher humidity levels may preserve fruit quality."
Maybe the extra moisture might preserve plant tissue too...instead of 100% dry heat.
And then we have the definitions in the Federal Register--
Forced hot air. Hot air blown uniformly
across commodities in a shipment
until the pulp of each unit in the
shipment of the commodity reaches a
specified temperature.
Hot water immersion dip. Complete immersion
of a commodity in heated
water to raise the temperature of the
commodity to a specific temperature
for a specified time. This treatment is
usually used to kill fruit flies.
Steam heat. The introduction of
steam at 212 °F or higher into an enclosure
containing a commodity to kill
targeted organisms.
Vapor heat. Heated air saturated with
water vapor and used to raise the temperature
of a commodity to a required
point for a specific period.
Source: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2010-title7-vol5/pdf/CFR-2010-title7-vol5-sec305-1.pdf
Got it? "Vapor heat" is not "hot water immersion", rather it is "forced air" with humidity/water vapor (not steam...212 degrees is no bueno). You will find no other person defining "vapor heat" as you have....water immersion.
So, guess you did not create the wheel...so please join ALGORE and sit in the corner--as he did not create the internet either! Liar liar pants on fire!
About that other lie...the claim you eliminating RA after a single treatment of Imid...which now you try to blame the problem on Broad Mites? I think your timing is a wee off for that fable to work: April 2010 (date of your post) is when you killed off your plants with a single treatment of Imid...and it was not until 2 years later you begin making posts on ICMag regarding Broad Mites. Remember, from 2010 through today, you continue telling everyone "one treatment of Imid worked for you". Nope, those were not broad mites that fucked up your garden in 2010...it was Root Aphids and Imid (at 50 ml/gallon)..and two years later, broad mites invaded your garden. Two separate plagues....two different disasters...you really can not be serious to expect us to believe you had broad mites for two years before discovering them (2010-2012)?
Nice try in "rewriting history"!
But yes, I will give you credit for being the FIRST ICMagger to suggest using the "dry heat method" to combat Broad Mites on Cannabis. Fair enuf?
yall should take the back and forth on proving how much you all think the other is stupid to pm. noone gives a fuck but you two. knock it the fuck off . again. every fucking thread this motherfucker takes part in goes this route with someone. im surprised the mods havent binned this already, jesus fuck you get tedious with your epic feuds taking over threads. sometimes with different people but always the same argument same pattern same result. thread hijacked in an ego war.
thanks bud.
thanks bud.
Former Guest
Active member
I was thinking yesterday about how each one keeps talking about how old they are.....
You're right....but when out of no where--someone slaps my face, sorry "I ain't Jesus" and will not let my name/honor be trampled on. Initiating hate speak/arguments are not my game.
That said, if (big if) one were to increase the humidity (ala vapor heat) and then lower the temperature to 110 (like the old timers did)....and if it also killed off Broad Mites (with less plant casualties), then I would say hmmm.
To know definitively, tissue tests for structural damage from plants treated with "120 degree dry heat" and "110 degree moist heat" would tell the tale. BTW, not suggesting 110 degrees is harmless to plants...but, if you think about, in certain climates 110 degrees can also be a "fucking hot day" with all the plants, animals, humans, microherd living for another day.
That said, if (big if) one were to increase the humidity (ala vapor heat) and then lower the temperature to 110 (like the old timers did)....and if it also killed off Broad Mites (with less plant casualties), then I would say hmmm.
To know definitively, tissue tests for structural damage from plants treated with "120 degree dry heat" and "110 degree moist heat" would tell the tale. BTW, not suggesting 110 degrees is harmless to plants...but, if you think about, in certain climates 110 degrees can also be a "fucking hot day" with all the plants, animals, humans, microherd living for another day.
S
StudenTeacher
In regards to the heat treatment, I've done it several times and it works great. It takes my room roughly two and a half hours to get to 120 degrees and I keep it there for thirty minutes. Plants don't seem to mind really. This was not always the case.
Ways to harm plants during heat treatment:
- Fans blowing on plants. (Previously mentioned by retro)
- Hoods too close to plants. The hoods will trap the heat and using a 1kw bulb they should be a minimum of 30-36inches above plants depending on sensitivity of various strains. Hoods also generate hot spots that reflect light much like a magnifying glass and burn plants when too close. This is true at 75 degrees or 120 degrees. Obviously at 120 those hotspots will act like a flame thrower, scorching the ladies.This is where most folks have problems. In my experience the excessive heat does not cause problems by itself. It needs a helper to synergize the effects, e.g. fans, hoods and hot nutrient mixes.
- Over fertilization and over drying of medium. In my room a full day or two worth of water will evaporate from the plants. This was a huge concern with rockwool blocks and teens in small cups. When the water goes the salts are left behind and can cause lockout and over fert when a small amount of medium is used. If doing this heat treatment and using a recirculating system or DWC type system I would change the water immediately thereafter. Definitely water accordingly. If you normally water twice a day of more expect your medium to be bone dry after this. Maybe even wilting or dead plants. This can be remedied of course with a simple timer and drip. If running hyroton (clay balls) leave it watering for the duration of the heat treatment. Do not let the balls dry out or you're in trouble.
The 120 degrees needs a helper to cause mischief and it is important this be known to everyone. Do not be afraid, but be smart and be careful. I know many people have ruined their plants with the heat and are now against it but with all variables in check it is 100% OK.
I get the heat up using extra bulbs and ballast that usually are not in use. My flower room that has 6 lights needs at least 8 (I use 9 for quicker results) lights to do the trick. I hang bulbs in the walkway between the tables and basically wherever I can that is at least roughly 2 feet from the plants. I unplug my six lights and plug the hanging lights in, so I only need 3 additional ballasts. The cord/socket assembly is $25 retail each and I use old bulbs that normally would have been tossed. After the treatment I water the girls with 25% strength nutrients until the following day. So for me it cost $225 for all sockets, and $125 for each super economy ballast. $600 total for me and works like a charm. The pest heat products are outside of my budget.
Good luck and happy growing to all! Thanks to retro grow for pointing me in this direction. I have used all miticides/pesticides mentioned in this thread and they have there place for some folks but if you have the dreaded PO broad mites in SoCal then they will not get you to harvest time if used correctly. I kept getting two weeks away before the duds would show, and then everything went to shit. Please do not poison innocent people, yourselves included, by using pesticides in an unsafe fashion. Also the aspirin I feel helps a lot.
These are my limited experiences and I wish everyone the best
Ways to harm plants during heat treatment:
- Fans blowing on plants. (Previously mentioned by retro)
- Hoods too close to plants. The hoods will trap the heat and using a 1kw bulb they should be a minimum of 30-36inches above plants depending on sensitivity of various strains. Hoods also generate hot spots that reflect light much like a magnifying glass and burn plants when too close. This is true at 75 degrees or 120 degrees. Obviously at 120 those hotspots will act like a flame thrower, scorching the ladies.This is where most folks have problems. In my experience the excessive heat does not cause problems by itself. It needs a helper to synergize the effects, e.g. fans, hoods and hot nutrient mixes.
- Over fertilization and over drying of medium. In my room a full day or two worth of water will evaporate from the plants. This was a huge concern with rockwool blocks and teens in small cups. When the water goes the salts are left behind and can cause lockout and over fert when a small amount of medium is used. If doing this heat treatment and using a recirculating system or DWC type system I would change the water immediately thereafter. Definitely water accordingly. If you normally water twice a day of more expect your medium to be bone dry after this. Maybe even wilting or dead plants. This can be remedied of course with a simple timer and drip. If running hyroton (clay balls) leave it watering for the duration of the heat treatment. Do not let the balls dry out or you're in trouble.
The 120 degrees needs a helper to cause mischief and it is important this be known to everyone. Do not be afraid, but be smart and be careful. I know many people have ruined their plants with the heat and are now against it but with all variables in check it is 100% OK.
I get the heat up using extra bulbs and ballast that usually are not in use. My flower room that has 6 lights needs at least 8 (I use 9 for quicker results) lights to do the trick. I hang bulbs in the walkway between the tables and basically wherever I can that is at least roughly 2 feet from the plants. I unplug my six lights and plug the hanging lights in, so I only need 3 additional ballasts. The cord/socket assembly is $25 retail each and I use old bulbs that normally would have been tossed. After the treatment I water the girls with 25% strength nutrients until the following day. So for me it cost $225 for all sockets, and $125 for each super economy ballast. $600 total for me and works like a charm. The pest heat products are outside of my budget.
Good luck and happy growing to all! Thanks to retro grow for pointing me in this direction. I have used all miticides/pesticides mentioned in this thread and they have there place for some folks but if you have the dreaded PO broad mites in SoCal then they will not get you to harvest time if used correctly. I kept getting two weeks away before the duds would show, and then everything went to shit. Please do not poison innocent people, yourselves included, by using pesticides in an unsafe fashion. Also the aspirin I feel helps a lot.
These are my limited experiences and I wish everyone the best
I'd be interested to know what the temps were at the top of that eight foot plant, and at the middle and at the bottom. I've found several degree difference in a four foot tall room. It's probably not impossible because you could have the base of the plant at 116-117 and a six to eight foot plant might be 122 at the top. Although I would question the effectiveness of 116-117 because that's relying on the thermometers being perfect.
another way to tell would be to simply grow them and see if yield and quality are normal. if so, who cares about the minutia of the lab detail. if you have bms and you get rid of them, and your plants are so healthy afterwards that it would take a lab to discerne any damage, id call that a win.
Kontos... (spirotetramat)
Systemic against everything from A-Z
1ml per gallon... Foliar/Drench..... 2014 time to deploy the modern tech
Systemic against everything from A-Z
1ml per gallon... Foliar/Drench..... 2014 time to deploy the modern tech
Im just asking cuz you are suggesting things no need to get defensive. I noticed the system uses fans so I was wondering if either ppl A. use the fans but point them so no hot air is blowing directly on the plants, or B. omit them. Why is everything a stupid question. Pretty obvious noone wants to search the other thread and if your treasures full of info. are buried deep within, it would do everyone else a better service if you just write a quicky answer instead of your sarcastic nonsense. You can obviously type a million word a minute so why dont you try and be more effective
I noticed in your thread tht you tried Avid at the proper PH. Next time you can ph the water first before you add the chemicals then you wont have to worry about damaging/contaminating your equiptment!! good luck if you aim for 5.8 ph whatever chemicals you add wont raise it by tht much so either way it goes youll be in range
I dont think ppl like the word "systemic" and will aviod if possible
Also isa this stuff right here similar to OG Biowar? If so the OGbiowar looks too kiddie for me
http://www.troybiosciences.com/technology_biopesticide_4.asp
http://www.troybiosciences.com/technology_biopesticide_4.asp
Former Guest
Active member
I think having the heat treatment as a sticky would be a great idea as trying to find the info about it was difficult. it is mentioned a lot in loads of threads but this is the first I have seen mentioned about the fans. maybe that is why people are having mixed results.
I also found this and just got done reading and I think it explains a lot about the confusion on how to eradicate this pest AND it talks extensively about heat treatments both water and vapor heat. after reading it and a few other AG sites, I'm pretty sure I am dealing with cyclamen mites and not broads. they live inside the tissue where a lot of things can't get to except for heat. I also messaged someone to ask how they did there set up as I was concerned about how my room is set up and why I can't get it that hot. they had some suggestions and told me not to worry about my water pump for the well being in there. I didn't know if it was sensitive to heat as I was told it should be kept as cool as possible and condensates in the room when temps get high and the pump is in use. If what I have planned in my IPM doesn't work, I wil have to get more heaters and break them somehow (how the fuck do you break them? tear off the knob?) or I could add more lights maybe but I don't like the idea of bringing in clean light set ups...
https://archive.org/stream/cyclamenmitebroa301smit/cyclamenmitebroa301smit_djvu.txt
my other thought was the water pump has water running through it and this could be acting as a heat exchanger and could be the reason why my room is having a hard time heating. it's 450cf
I also found this and just got done reading and I think it explains a lot about the confusion on how to eradicate this pest AND it talks extensively about heat treatments both water and vapor heat. after reading it and a few other AG sites, I'm pretty sure I am dealing with cyclamen mites and not broads. they live inside the tissue where a lot of things can't get to except for heat. I also messaged someone to ask how they did there set up as I was concerned about how my room is set up and why I can't get it that hot. they had some suggestions and told me not to worry about my water pump for the well being in there. I didn't know if it was sensitive to heat as I was told it should be kept as cool as possible and condensates in the room when temps get high and the pump is in use. If what I have planned in my IPM doesn't work, I wil have to get more heaters and break them somehow (how the fuck do you break them? tear off the knob?) or I could add more lights maybe but I don't like the idea of bringing in clean light set ups...
https://archive.org/stream/cyclamenmitebroa301smit/cyclamenmitebroa301smit_djvu.txt
my other thought was the water pump has water running through it and this could be acting as a heat exchanger and could be the reason why my room is having a hard time heating. it's 450cf
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