Broad Mite and Spider Mite IPM for Cannabis (lets get a convo going)

[Former Guest]

that muther f-er permaculture grad ass hat told me that Avid wasn't all that bad because of the bacteria it's derived from and made it seem not so bad. I look it up and it says abamectin is from soil bacteria and that sounds safer than organophosphate or carcinogen or carba whatever its active ingredient is. last time I believe some grad from an organic program. whatever....I've been smoking stuff all year from that dispensary. hippies on parade like wolves in sheeps clothing. I don't even want to go get pot from the dispensary after reading this but I have none. ugh.

how come there is nothing labeled dangerous? and only a few are labeled warning. my hands still itch since yesterday.

it's not even systemic but says it's translaminar with slight systemic properties. I read this as I will have new growth that won't have the chemical on it so I can take clones to start over with.

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

its not as much about toxicity as it is about presence. what you need to discerne (and this is your job to know) is wether this will be present in the herbs.
kontos has a half life of one day. avid can vary depending on conditions between 1 week and a month. so with avid if sprayed at the end of veg it is possible that some amount could in some instances be present but its not necessarily likely either. with kontos the half life being a day, you could spray it during stretch and it would be not likely at all.

 

[zuni]

its not as much about toxicity as it is about presence. what you need to discerne (and this is your job to know) is wether this will be present in the herbs.
kontos has a half life of one day. avid can vary depending on conditions between 1 week and a month. so with avid if sprayed at the end of veg it is possible that some amount could in some instances be present but its not necessarily likely either. with kontos the half life being a day, you could spray it during stretch and it would be not likely at all.

can we get some links of half lives of these chemeicals?

 

[zuni]

that muther f-er permaculture grad ass hat told me that Avid wasn't all that bad because of the bacteria it's derived from and made it seem not so bad. I look it up and it says abamectin is from soil bacteria and that sounds safer than organophosphate or carcinogen or carba whatever its active ingredient is. last time I believe some grad from an organic program. whatever....I've been smoking stuff all year from that dispensary. hippies on parade like wolves in sheeps clothing. I don't even want to go get pot from the dispensary after reading this but I have none. ugh.

how come there is nothing labeled dangerous? and only a few are labeled warning. my hands still itch since yesterday.

it's not even systemic but says it's translaminar with slight systemic properties. I read this as I will have new growth that won't have the chemical on it so I can take clones to start over with.

you just gotta pay attention to the half life of these chemicals. I have had farmers purposly spry these chemicals 4 weeks into flower to see what if any residual is left on the plant. They had the cannabis tested by SC Labs and all passed FDA food crop requirements. I am not advocating this at all but I am telling you that the testing has been done. I do not have the data or the exact ppms but I know they passed all residual tests

 

[Former Guest]

I read that avid had a half life of max ten days? If I take clones and then veg them out for a month or longer before flipping them, that would work with me.

On a glorious side note, My Jesus OG Kush I put aside the day I got her because she had spray damage and I wasn't sure if it was spray or if it was pests (turned out fine) she's been growing for a month in a solo cup and still small because I haven't fed her at all but she has maybe four pistils at the ends because the days are short and she isn't getting the right light so she has been moved about two weeks ago under a 24/7 flouro, but my point is, she has white pistils where the other girls didn't and she has gorgeous green healthy leaves and she is completely organic as the collective I got her from sprays with azamax too bad their weed sucks.

so not all is lost. I have just been keeping her in a spare room until this is all over.

 

[zuni]

its not as much about toxicity as it is about presence. what you need to discerne (and this is your job to know) is wether this will be present in the herbs.
kontos has a half life of one day. avid can vary depending on conditions between 1 week and a month. so with avid if sprayed at the end of veg it is possible that some amount could in some instances be present but its not necessarily likely either. with kontos the half life being a day, you could spray it during stretch and it would be not likely at all.

from what I am gathering Kontos ought to be used maybe on the Moms and in veg if theres an issue? since its systemic shd be able to carry you into flower? also doesnt work with lrg populations so i dnt think spraying in flower wld be the most effective way to use this

 

[zuni]

I read that avid had a half life of max ten days? If I take clones and then veg them out for a month or longer before flipping them, that would work with me.

On a glorious side note, My Jesus OG Kush I put aside the day I got her because she had spray damage and I wasn't sure if it was spray or if it was pests (turned out fine) she's been growing for a month in a solo cup and still small because I haven't fed her at all but she has maybe four pistils at the ends because the days are short and she isn't getting the right light so she has been moved about two weeks ago under a 24/7 flouro, but my point is, she has white pistils where the other girls didn't and she has gorgeous green healthy leaves and she is completely organic as the collective I got her from sprays with azamax too bad their weed sucks.

so not all is lost. I have just been keeping her in a spare room until this is all over.

since you already have a decent sized lil bottle of avid for your operation, I would suggest dunking your clones in it when you get em, with some neem oil and emulsifier (remember to ph the water first) as a preventative measure for a while. Once you are confident in your abailities to id pests and get rid of em, thn you can switch to an Organic dip before transplant

 

[Former Guest]

oohhh no! I did not buy a bottle of avid. if I need that much, I need to just move or stop growing. I only bought a 1/3 oz to mix up 8-10 gallons of solution for a 2 time try. if this doesn't work and they keep coming back. I'm going to cull and sterilize somehow.

 

[zuni]

I read that avid had a half life of max ten days? If I take clones and then veg them out for a month or longer before flipping them, that would work with me.

On a glorious side note, My Jesus OG Kush I put aside the day I got her because she had spray damage and I wasn't sure if it was spray or if it was pests (turned out fine) she's been growing for a month in a solo cup and still small because I haven't fed her at all but she has maybe four pistils at the ends because the days are short and she isn't getting the right light so she has been moved about two weeks ago under a 24/7 flouro, but my point is, she has white pistils where the other girls didn't and she has gorgeous green healthy leaves and she is completely organic as the collective I got her from sprays with azamax too bad their weed sucks.

so not all is lost. I have just been keeping her in a spare room until this is all over.

I actually just sprayed a room of mine with an azamax / avid mix. they seem very compatable no damage and plants seems real happy next day!

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

kontos isnt necessarily sprayed. most people on here drench with it,. theres no need to use it in flower if you are on a scheduled use.
it isnt residual at harvest. avid could be.

 

[Former Guest]

so azamax is labeled the same as forbid and floramite? how bad is azamax?

my plants were over a foot tall and ready to flip. I just came home with a new AC hoods and ducting to set up the bloom tent I'd been working on all week to find this mess. some even broke because they were taller than the bucket.

 

[RetroGrow]

In regards to the heat treatment, I've done it several times and it works great. It takes my room roughly two and a half hours to get to 120 degrees and I keep it there for thirty minutes. Plants don't seem to mind really. This was not always the case.

Ways to harm plants during heat treatment:

- Fans blowing on plants. (Previously mentioned by retro)

- Hoods too close to plants. The hoods will trap the heat and using a 1kw bulb they should be a minimum of 30-36inches above plants depending on sensitivity of various strains. Hoods also generate hot spots that reflect light much like a magnifying glass and burn plants when too close. This is true at 75 degrees or 120 degrees. Obviously at 120 those hotspots will act like a flame thrower, scorching the ladies.This is where most folks have problems. In my experience the excessive heat does not cause problems by itself. It needs a helper to synergize the effects, e.g. fans, hoods and hot nutrient mixes.

- Over fertilization and over drying of medium. In my room a full day or two worth of water will evaporate from the plants. This was a huge concern with rockwool blocks and teens in small cups. When the water goes the salts are left behind and can cause lockout and over fert when a small amount of medium is used. If doing this heat treatment and using a recirculating system or DWC type system I would change the water immediately thereafter. Definitely water accordingly. If you normally water twice a day of more expect your medium to be bone dry after this. Maybe even wilting or dead plants. This can be remedied of course with a simple timer and drip. If running hyroton (clay balls) leave it watering for the duration of the heat treatment. Do not let the balls dry out or you're in trouble.

The 120 degrees needs a helper to cause mischief and it is important this be known to everyone. Do not be afraid, but be smart and be careful. I know many people have ruined their plants with the heat and are now against it but with all variables in check it is 100% OK.

I get the heat up using extra bulbs and ballast that usually are not in use. My flower room that has 6 lights needs at least 8 (I use 9 for quicker results) lights to do the trick. I hang bulbs in the walkway between the tables and basically wherever I can that is at least roughly 2 feet from the plants. I unplug my six lights and plug the hanging lights in, so I only need 3 additional ballasts. The cord/socket assembly is $25 retail each and I use old bulbs that normally would have been tossed. After the treatment I water the girls with 25% strength nutrients until the following day. So for me it cost $225 for all sockets, and $125 for each super economy ballast. $600 total for me and works like a charm. The pest heat products are outside of my budget.

Good luck and happy growing to all! Thanks to retro grow for pointing me in this direction. I have used all miticides/pesticides mentioned in this thread and they have there place for some folks but if you have the dreaded PO broad mites in SoCal then they will not get you to harvest time if used correctly. I kept getting two weeks away before the duds would show, and then everything went to shit. Please do not poison innocent people, yourselves included, by using pesticides in an unsafe fashion. Also the aspirin I feel helps a lot.

These are my limited experiences and I wish everyone the best

Good points. In regards to "hotboxes", my term for hoods, I threw them out long ago. Vertical bare bulbs put out 40% more light, have no hot spots, and are way cheaper. Also, easier to distribute the heat around the room, especially top to bottom in rooms with high ceilings, for people who like to grow sativas. Stacked verticals keep the temperatures consistent at different height levels, which is why they work on 8 foot trees.
So hoods, and fans are the two things you need to be careful about. Fans:don't use them. This is the first instruction in any post about how to do a heat treatment. Unfortunately, I-bots don't want to read, they want answers NOW, protocol be darned. If they burn their plants, it's on them for not reading. As for hydrating plants: this is common sense in my opinion, but I guess there are people who will find a way to screw this up too, so MAKE SURE YOUR PLANTS ARE HYDRATED. Since I use coco, plants are always fully hydrated, as they would be in any hydro medium/system. As for soil growers, I have never tried it in soil, but again, common sense tells you to keep it well watered before a heat treatment. The other "rule" is err on the side of caution. Don't just throw a bunch of heat sources in there and expect everything to take care of itself. Until you get it dialed in, raise the temperature gradually, and monitor continuously, with multiple thermometers if your space is large. Don't over do it. Once you have it dialed in, and know how many extra heat sources you need, it is simple, and can be repeated easily and as often as you like, even in flower if you get them late or they re-enter your space from outside or from other ares of your house/property. There is no difference in treatment of broad or cyclamen mites. For all intents & purposes, they are the same animal. The other variable is the temperature outside. If it's 105 degrees outside (common even in northern California in the summer, and even hotter in southern California, where it can get to 120F during Santa Ana winds), you may not need any extra heat sources. Just the room lights may bring the temperature up to where you need it. Conversely, if you are in a very cold climate, the task becomes more laborious, as you will need more heat sources. As "student teacher" mentioned, "extra" or old lights/ballasts that you may have laying around are perfect for adding extra heat. You can also go to any busy hydro store and pick up ancient/traded in lights/ballasts for peanuts, or find them on Craig's list. The lights I linked from Home Depot are perfectly suited for this, as they are 150 watt metal halide bulbs, enclosed, built in ballast. They are also good for supplemental lighting to hit the bottoms of your plants to turn that popcorn into real buds, and to increase your light spectrum (adding blue) when using HPS in flower. Also good for seedlings, as the light is more intense than flourescents. Anyway, multipurpose.
Electric space heaters also work fine, and are cheap, but the newer ones have thermistors which put a cap on the temperature, so the thermistors must be taken out of the circuit. Instructions for doing this can be found in the broad mite thread, by clicking on "search this thread" /"advanced search"/thermistors. If you are too lazy to do a 5 second search, you are too lazy to disconnect the thermistor anyway.
I, too, do not like to spray chemicals on plants, nor would I want to smoke any herb that was grown by cash croppers who will spray anything on plants, even in flower, to save their crop, so I will always look for alternative methods. OG Biowar also works, but the humidity must be right around 60% for it to be effective, so you must have your humidity dialed in or it won't work. As someone pointed out, Kontos is for "control", and will not totally eradicate tarsonemidae. Can't hurt, but is not a one part solution.
To those who insist on using chems, be advised that some mites in California are already resistant to Avid & Forbid (thanks, Progressive Options). The more chems are used, the greater the chance of resistant strains developing. Another reason to seek alternatives.

 

[RetroGrow]

so azamax is labeled the same as forbid and floramite? how bad is azamax?

my plants were over a foot tall and ready to flip. I just came home with a new AC hoods and ducting to set up the bloom tent I'd been working on all week to find this mess. some even broke because they were taller than the bucket.

Azamax does not kill tarsonemidae mites. Waste of money and time.

 

[Former Guest]

I'm not talking about broad mites. I'm talking about classifications and how they're labeled but you would've known that had you read the last few posts. I don't understand why they're labeled the same regarding health concerns.
I thought azamax was safe and ok for organics?

azamax is the only one that claims it treats mites. all the other ones I found with azadiractin as the active ingredient said that they don't treat spider mites, like Azatrol and a few others. this is the chart I am looking at https://utextension.tennessee.edu/publications/documents/pb1594.pdf

and is there something special about broad mite eggs that makes them not susceptible to neem or horticultural oils? I haven't found any info stating that. so I would think that if you could employ methods that eat eggs like predatory mites or smother them with oils, you could gain control at least.

 

[Former Guest]

well I tired the advanced search so kindly suggested and I can't find it
https://www.icmag.com/ic/search.php?searchid=5080215
https://www.icmag.com/ic/search.php?searchid=5080232
https://www.icmag.com/ic/search.php?searchid=5080246

tried thermistor or thermistors both by post and by thread. you've never mentioned it until now.

 

[Former Guest]

try to search by the original poster and there is no such filter that I can find either as was suggested by some other senior members. maybe this is why no one can find anything.

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

why dont you just read the msds??

 

[RetroGrow]

try to search by the original poster and there is no such filter that I can find either as was suggested by some other senior members. maybe this is why no one can find anything.

Yes there is. Look above. See where it says "search this thread"? Click, and then click "advanced search", then you have the option to search by poster's name.

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

use google to search icmag.
sample search term:
"broad mites azatrol icmag"
works waaaaay better

 

[Former Guest]

why dont you just read the msds??

is that info in the label instructions that's a mile long? I thought that just says how to handle correctly.

I finally found something that talks about solvents and then the more organic options use something different or better? is this the difference?

I have quit using the icmag search option long ago because most of my searches either yield a lot of results or the specific word I want is too small. google has worked well but then I get results from edu sites along with articles that can sum it up so much better than childish fighting. honestly just reading the old fights is really a downer and all this fighting, name calling and plain negativity has sucked all the fun I have had for growing! even when things were crappy and I wasn't online I still enjoyed learning and overcoming obstacles. but now I have to deal with everyone else. it used to be so relaxing and I found therapy in it.