AN CarboLoad, is it really that good?

[acridlab]

I hear u, n yeah, those said patients, smoke from growers all over the state.. not just ours, lol..
lots of great growers around that use a bunch of different mediums/nute combos and organics, etc.. that's what's so great about cannabis today..and we need variety in life or it would just be like Tim Horton sandwiches, bland as fug,, lol.. peace out..

 

[Dr.King]

That's seriously reductive - sorry. My patients all agree that my product is the best they've ever tasted and I don't use AN. BTW - that is as reductive as the statement you just made and means absolutely nothing. See my comments about taste buds and personal preference etc.

Organic growers will tell you organics taste best etc etc etc. It all means nothing and is little more than opinion. End of day claims to the effect of within my extremely limited sample group based on anecdotal feedback I can categorically state X are flawed. What would need to be done would be actual scientific lab tests that demonstrated the levels of flavonoids and essential oils (THC,CBN, CBD etc) that various nutrient regimes and approaches (e.g. hydro v organic) resulted in. Other than this double blind taste tests would be needed. I.e. people given product of the same genetics grown with different nutrient lines and asked which one tasted and smoked best. Only then would any claim of this type be credible because it has been qualitatively tested.

So far I have not seen a single company release these types of tests where nutrient lines are compared. BTW - I'd be suspect if they did and would rather see independent non commercial research by credible scientists which is then peer reviewed and tested by other scientists.

I agree we should be doing more in-depth studies on all cannabis genetics. Cannabis genetics effect every persons brain receptors differently so it will take some time for us to truly know. Another main problem is there is no telling that the two same genetic plants will come out the same using different nutrients. Also tasting and type of high can vary person to person even if one did manage to grow the same genetics with different nutrients.

On the AN subject, people seem to forget that their main marketing tool is that their products are PH perfect. I can't tell you how nice it is not having to worry about checking PH. To each their own I will say. I just like giving helping advice and using a PH perfect system for newer growers is simply perfect.

 

[glow]

I agree we should be doing more in-depth studies on all cannabis genetics. Cannabis genetics effect every persons brain receptors differently so it will take some time for us to truly know. Another main problem is there is no telling that the two same genetic plants will come out the same using different nutrients. Also tasting and type of high can vary person to person even if one did manage to grow the same genetics with different nutrients.

On the AN subject, people seem to forget that their main marketing tool is that their products are PH perfect. I can't tell you how nice it is not having to worry about checking PH. To each their own I will say. I just like giving helping advice and using a PH perfect system for newer growers is simply perfect.

Agree absolutely re the need for research. The great thing is that as pseudo legalization occurs this opens the doors for serious and respected research.

Sure I like the idea of pH buffered nutrients for recycling growers. GH do a buffered range also. My only concern is that pH Perfect may use MES technology. MES is rated as highly toxic in several countries due to the molecule containing a morpholine ring.

Morpholine is a solvent and emulsifier that is commonly used in the preparation of wax coatings for fruits and vegetables, although morpholine’s use for this purpose is now banned in the EU because it is known to be a precursor of N-nitrosomorpholine (C4H8N2O2), a known carcinogen. That is, in the presence of excess nitrite (NO2−) morpholine can be chemically modified (nitrosated) to form N-nitrosomorpholine (NMOR), a genotoxic carcinogen in rodents. The WHO (1996) notes, “Morpholine does not appear to be mutagenic or carcinogenic in animals. However, it can be easily nitrosated to form NMOR, which is mutagenic and carcinogenic in several species of experimental animals. Morpholine fed to rats sequentially with nitrite caused an increase in tumours.” And: “Morpholine can undergo a variety of reactions. It behaves chemically as a secondary amine. Under environmental and physiological conditions, the proven animal carcinogen N-nitrosomorpholine (NMOR) is formed by reaction of solutions of nitrite or gaseous nitrogen oxides with dilute solutions of morpholine.”

Prob is nitrites are a natural part of the NO3-N (nitrate N) to amino acid conversion that occurs in plants. In short, what occurs is nitrate N (NO3−–N) first needs to be uptaken and translocated from the roots of the plant through the xylem. It is then absorbed by a mesophyll cell via one of the nitrate−proton symporters into the cytoplasm and reduced to nitrite by nitrate reductase in the cytoplasm. From here the nitrite is reduced to ammonium by nitrite reductase in the chloroplast, which is then incorporated into amino acids by the glutamine synthetase−glutamine− 2−oxoglutarate amidotransferase enzyme system, resulting in glutamine and, ultimately, other amino acids and their metabolites.

Based on this, it is very feasible that morpholine and nitrites could bond in the plant and form N-nitrosomorpholine, whereby it could then be translocated.

BTW - morpholine is readily bioavailable and is systemic.

We have various people looking into this now - I've handed it to a couple of regulatory bodies and the ASA to look into.

 

[glow]

Hey PS - its nice to see the thread has become civil again (troll free) and civil exchanges are resulting in good info being thrown around by various people

 

[EclipseFour20]

One thing we completely agree on.

Goodbye.

Talk to the hand!

 

[bigalthegrower]

What country are you based in? I don't buy bennie products from hydroponic stores as I want registered products that can guarantee low contaminants and high cfu or spore counts. I have suppliers in several countries and can perhaps point you towards a good source. Use a bacteria based product as bacteria are better suited to water based systems and inert/inorganic substrates while fungi (e.g. Trichoderma) are better suited to organic media.

Im in the USA. I own a bacillus subtilis product called Companion that I picked up from American Hydroponics.
http://www.growthproducts.com/pages/international.asp?tables=featured&product=204
Has anybody used this product in DWC?

Glad to see the thread becoming more positive.
bA

 

[glow]

Im in the USA. I own a bacillus subtilis product called Companion that I picked up from American Hydroponics.
http://www.growthproducts.com/pages/international.asp?tables=featured&product=204
Has anybody used this product in DWC?

Glad to see the thread becoming more positive.
bA

Custom Bio - we get

GP trichoderma

and

B5 bacillus

from them. Good products.

http://www.custombio.com/

 

[glow]

BTW - you want the bacillus product for DWC. Yours looks like it only contains one species of B. subtillus. As a general rule the broader the range of suitable bacteria species the broader the range of pathogens it prevents.

 

[EclipseFour20]

Agree with Glow, diversity of bacteria/fungi is the key for microherd management. Lots of expensive and "affordable" alternatives out there. But don't forget about "feeding" the herd--IMHO, nothing is better than a small dose of "Raw Milk". Too many experts have concluded that, "Raw Milk is almost the perfect food for bacteria to grown in."....that is why it is "pasteurized".

Got Milk? Half gallon of "low fat Raw Milk" is less than $5.

Brief history--
"During the 19th and 20th century, food borne illnesses became rampant. While milk is a perfect food for people, it’s also a perfect food for bacteria. With more and more people moving to cities, and getting more distant from the source of their food, it became more important to solve spoilage issues, and extend the shelf life of foods. Our food distribution systems were having new problems.

In 1938, milk and dairy products were the source of 25% of all food and waterborne illnesses. (source) We needed a way to slow the growth of bacteria to provide a safe product for people to consume. With the development of pasteurization, milk and dairy products today account for less than 1% of all food and waterborne illnesses.

...Interestingly, pasteurization was developed by Louis Pasteur in 1864 to improve the keeping qualities of wine, and was later adapted to dairy. Commercial pasteurization of milk began in the early 1900s in the United States. Chicago became the first city to require pasteurization of milk in 1908, and Michigan was the first state in 1947.

Pasteurization is done for 2 reasons:

-Destroy harmful bacteria that may cause illness (food safety)
-To increase the keeping quality of milk (increased shelf-life)"

 

[DrFever]

Agree with Glow, diversity of bacteria/fungi is the key for microherd management. Lots of expensive and "affordable" alternatives out there. But don't forget about "feeding" the herd--IMHO, nothing is better than a small dose of "Raw Milk". Too many experts have concluded that, "Raw Milk is almost the perfect food for bacteria to grown in."....that is why it is "pasteurized".

Got Milk? Half gallon of "low fat Raw Milk" is less than $5.

Brief history--
"During the 19th and 20th century, food borne illnesses became rampant. While milk is a perfect food for people, it’s also a perfect food for bacteria. With more and more people moving to cities, and getting more distant from the source of their food, it became more important to solve spoilage issues, and extend the shelf life of foods. Our food distribution systems were having new problems.

In 1938, milk and dairy products were the source of 25% of all food and waterborne illnesses. (source) We needed a way to slow the growth of bacteria to provide a safe product for people to consume. With the development of pasteurization, milk and dairy products today account for less than 1% of all food and waterborne illnesses.

...Interestingly, pasteurization was developed by Louis Pasteur in 1864 to improve the keeping qualities of wine, and was later adapted to dairy. Commercial pasteurization of milk began in the early 1900s in the United States. Chicago became the first city to require pasteurization of milk in 1908, and Michigan was the first state in 1947.

Pasteurization is done for 2 reasons:

-Destroy harmful bacteria that may cause illness (food safety)
-To increase the keeping quality of milk (increased shelf-life)"

Who really cares about the Herd unless you are growing outside ??? in all honesty Lets be realistic here what screws up the new growers is crap like this , when a person should be focusing on dialing his or her room with all the essentials for maximum plant growth.
then studying the strain ,that the grower will be using finding out if its a heavy feeder or not .
then once going keeping plant healthy with proper room air exchanges proper NPK ratio's watering times etc reading your plant
Grow please don't make it out as DWC is the only answer or its the best way to grow cause thats in your language BOLLOX
its just one style of growing there are many others
To come in here and say organic growing is wrong tells me allot about you and your bias opinions even tho i make a organic soilless mix in my garden ( indoor ) at the start i use chemical nutes through out i do not worry about the herd.
Cause growers must realize that the millions of herd already planted in that soil will do your grow 10 times over especially when average grows in this forums are what ?? 60 -90 days
So what does a new grower probably see when he comes this type of thread confusion is all
All i can say is do what works best for your situation if growing organics then have a composed bin reusing soil this way is cost savings, Safer probably as people probably will not see you carting in hundreds of bags
On the chemical end pretty much every hydroponic nutrient these days are good they sell if they didn't that store would not stock em so its safe to say all are good just shop around you should not spend more then 120 bucks for all the stuff needed and last you 2 grows easy
look for a good 2 part Veg and a 2 part B bloom remember keep same type for both do not mix match for additives Calmag , supermax B , humix and Fulvix and superthrive for early stage growth and for foliage look for spray n grow Zinc n iron ( flowering stage foliage ) PH up and PH down thats all your going to need if you like add a bloom booster with more P and K for mid to late flowering and you will have a great grow every time in any medium of your choice

Grow when you compare your self to a real jedi grower you fall really short i would place bets if you grew 30 plants outdoor you still would not touch one plant in yield Organics has its place

PS just remember if it wasn't for USA to save your sorry ass in world war 2 you be speaking German in that tiny rock you call home

pictures courtesy of MENDO

 

[EclipseFour20]

Who really cares about the Herd unless you are growing outside ??? in all honesty Lets be realistic here what screws up the new growers is crap like this , when a person should be focusing on dialing his or her room with all the essentials for maximum plant growth.
then studying the strain ,that the grower will be using finding out if its a heavy feeder or not .
then once going keeping plant healthy with proper room air exchanges proper NPK ratio's watering times etc reading your plant ...

It appears I am ahead of you on the cannabis growing learning curve as my environment is spot on--not much to tweak there. To dismiss the value of microherd kinda tells everyone where you're at on the learning curve. I've moved past NPK ratios and watering times many years ago...my current game is playing with strategic water deficits at specific times. Simple fact, in an organic growing medium--without bacteria/microherd....you really don't have NPK or any of the 90 plus naturally recurring elements available on earth to be in the form that is "plant available".

 

[DrFever]

I appears I am ahead of you on the cannabis growing learning curve as my environment is spot on--not much to tweak there. To dismiss the value of microherd kinda tells everyone where you're at in this learning curve. I've moved past NPK ratios and watering times many years ago...my current game is playing with strategic water deficits at specific times. Simple fact, in an organic growing medium--without bacteria....you really don't have "plant available" NPK or any of the 90 plus naturally recurring elements available on earth.

For a person that has only pictures of some stupid Dog or pumice pictures no journal tells me to take what ever you post as un important
i was referring to the new grower there son my rooms are also dialed in hell i can look at my rooms 10,000 miles away and adjust accordingly so please where i am at is 1180 dry grams per 1000 watt with a strain that is 600 per i almost doubled it by the way where are your grow room pics ??? or journal best i did is just under 5 pounds 2000 watts 7 3/4 pound 3000 watts under 5 pounds was 5 plants grow other 12 plant grow

It is well known that the mountain growers tend to water less in flowering period IMO as we are mimicking out door conditions in our rooms we should use mother natures clock and follow it april showers so more water during veg times and in fall where temps get lower so should our rooms , as well as lowering water amounts

PS my oven to sterilize my soil

 

[DrFever]

All i am trying to say is organics or chemicals choose your style and run with it
Grow is the one that mentions organics as wank or what ever its not its just one way to grow. and for many growers thats the way they like to grow

 

[EclipseFour20]

For a person that has only pictures of some stupid Dog or pumice pictures no journal tells me to take what ever you post as un important ...
PS my oven to sterilize my soil

Dr Fever--

I am glad you took the initiative to research my pictures...as there are zero of my garden....why is that? My attorney has advised me NOT TO POST PICS OF MY GARDEN ACTIVITIES...and he is the one that can keep my "freedom", if/when it is challenged. I know the size of "my anatomy"--and do not see how any good will happen to me, if I show and tell. Besides bragging rights in cannabis forum is not important to me; I truly believe only "bad" can come if I post pics of "incriminating evidence"...nothing "good" (I am older than most and have lots of assets at risk--a 20 year prison sentence would be the same as life for me).

So you understand, the pics in my album are used to supplement information I post on ICMag....and as to why there are "pumice pics", here is that post--
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6600114&postcount=16
LOL, rather educational, huh? Nothing sinister.

So I see you are part of the population that believe....if it ain't on youtube, it doesn't exist. Sorry but not everything that is real...is photographed! In fact, thanks to Photoshop, photos are can be lies and wishes.

BTW, I too used to sterilize my soil, until I discovered the "weak link" and eliminated it (which coincidentally was pumice...which I don't use anymore as it was loaded with symphylans and nasty nematodes), now there is no need for me to go through the sterilization process. Again, guess I am a few steps ahead of you.

Ohh...that personal jab about that "stupid dog", he died last month and is laid to rest in my backyard....he was my best friend and had a understanding of an excess of a 75 word vocabulary...hardly stupid. So...fuck off and go to hell!

Here is the pic of who Dr Fever called "stupid dog".....

And the ICMag thread about his hospice care (for those that love dogs...unlike Dr Fever)--
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=292577

 

[papaduc]

I've moved past NPK ratios and watering times many years ago.

Nobody ever moves past those. They're the strings you pull and your ability to read and control your plant is based fundamentally on your understanding of and ability to control them, in your ground and in your plant.

my current game is playing with strategic water deficits at specific times

You talk about me and my attitude towards people, but you condescend to people all the time.

Yes I might argue with people on here, but I can count on one hand (maybe with an extra finger) who they are.... and I can guarantee every single time that the one common theme you'll find in every single one of my arguments is that I am challenging and dismissing misinformation regarding the growing of cannabis...and there's a lot of it, a hell of a lot... In fact it's like shoveling shit against the tide sometimes... so yes, there's arguing to be done sometimes.

What you won't catch me doing is bluffing and fooling people into believing what isn't true.

Everything I say I stand by to the point where if anyone needed my help I would be there from the beginning to the end of their grow and guaranteeing that they had a harvest at the end of it. If I fail in that I've failed them and my methods obviously don't work, but I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is.

Have a read through this thread from beginning to end.

I'm taking someone else through a grow they were having difficulty with and I guarantee they'll have a healthy plant and harvest at the end of it. There's another fella in the sick plant forum who hasn't replied to me yet whose wife is sick and uses cannabis as medication. I'll guarantee him my time as well. In fact anyone who wants it, I'm there, not with the bullshit or trying to sell anything, but with cast iron solid facts I know for 100% sure will work to grow this simple beautiful herb and grow it well.

You don't need a book, or a degree in microbiology, and I find it fascinating when people who quote these academic research papers or obsess over every mineral ion in their water don't have this simple simple plant growing in tip top health.

It shows a lot about people. People want to sound clever, look clever, sell books, sell nutrients, promote themselves... while their plants show clearly that they haven't applied themselves enough to this craft, this trade, anywhere near well enough to qualify them to do that.

So do I give a shit if you hold a personal grudge towards me, someone who you've never met, whose ethics, values, lifestyle, moral decisions, family life, principles, ambitions you know nothing of?

No.

I'm here only to help people to understand and acquire a skill, a knowledge of plant growing.

I won't get involved in this negativity anymore. What I will do is get a good camera and document everything I know in a way I know will help people, and I guarantee it will be as useful a reference as any book being peddled by some crook, and it will be here, online, for free.

I'm not here to screw you out of a penny by quoting people to make myself sound clever. I take pride in the fact that everything I talk about I have taken the time to understand, without reciting text from some other source. If I don't know about it, I go away to learn. .

Learn to grow this herb and you will have pictures of beautiful plants to show people, and despite what your attorney says, you'll be clever and make sure nothing incriminating is in the picture, and no metadata is uploaded with it.

Focus on text-grabbing to make yourself sound clever, and you won't. Your choice.

And I'm sorry to hear about your dog. He was a good looking fella. I'm sure Dr.Fever didn't know he was dead. My girl goes everywhere with me, no lead, and even does a few household chores, like shoo the cats from scratching the couch, or stop them squabbling with each other. I'll miss her loads if she goes before me. They're a part of your family but have such a short life.

 

[glow]

Who really cares about the Herd unless you are growing outside ??? in all honesty Lets be realistic here what screws up the new growers is crap like this , when a person should be focusing on dialing his or her room with all the essentials for maximum plant growth.
then studying the strain ,that the grower will be using finding out if its a heavy feeder or not .
then once going keeping plant healthy with proper room air exchanges proper NPK ratio's watering times etc reading your plant
Grow please don't make it out as DWC is the only answer or its the best way to grow cause thats in your language BOLLOX
its just one style of growing there are many others
To come in here and say organic growing is wrong tells me allot about you and your bias opinions even tho i make a organic soilless mix in my garden ( indoor ) at the start i use chemical nutes through out i do not worry about the herd.
Cause growers must realize that the millions of herd already planted in that soil will do your grow 10 times over especially when average grows in this forums are what ?? 60 -90 days
So what does a new grower probably see when he comes this type of thread confusion is all
All i can say is do what works best for your situation if growing organics then have a composed bin reusing soil this way is cost savings, Safer probably as people probably will not see you carting in hundreds of bags
On the chemical end pretty much every hydroponic nutrient these days are good they sell if they didn't that store would not stock em so its safe to say all are good just shop around you should not spend more then 120 bucks for all the stuff needed and last you 2 grows easy
look for a good 2 part Veg and a 2 part B bloom remember keep same type for both do not mix match for additives Calmag , supermax B , humix and Fulvix and superthrive for early stage growth and for foliage look for spray n grow Zinc n iron ( flowering stage foliage ) PH up and PH down thats all your going to need if you like add a bloom booster with more P and K for mid to late flowering and you will have a great grow every time in any medium of your choice

Grow when you compare your self to a real jedi grower you fall really short i would place bets if you grew 30 plants outdoor you still would not touch one plant in yield Organics has its place

PS just remember if it wasn't for USA to save your sorry ass in world war 2 you be speaking German in that tiny rock you call home

pictures courtesy of MENDO

Sort of sick of the trolls that is certain. Re this "PS just remember if it wasn't for USA to save your sorry ass in world war 2 you be speaking German in that tiny rock you call home"

What country do you think I'm from champ (and it's glow)?

Firstly, because I'm not going to enter into a debate about hydroponics versus organics - each to their own..... You seem to be making this an issue of nationalism. I'm a world citizen and live in Asia these days and have done for about 8 years with trips to the US, UK and France in between (lived in Paris for a year and I am married to a French girl). That tiny little rock I'm from is nearly as big as the US - Australia is the biggest island in the world. Not to slate the US because without them the 2nd world war likely wouldn't have been won - although even this is debatable because the Russians may have triumphed anyway (first into Berlin etc while the US were largely fighting the Japs in the Pacific). D-Day which was the turning point of the war involved the Brits, the ANZACs (Australia, New Zealand Army Corps), the Canadians, the US and others hitting the beaches of Normandy and taking it from there. Just that all the 2nd world war films came out of America and were all about America. Watching US made war movies is a very flawed way to learn history. Kinda like watching Independence day and thinking that too is real. The US sat back until 1942 before entering the war. Basically, they let everyone else scrap it out and take massive losses and only after Pearl Harbour was bombed did they suddenly realise that they too were part of the world stage. Putting this aside, the entry of the US into the war gave the allies (note allies - i.e. USA, UK, ANZACs, Canada etc) a massive advantage and for that all people in the world should be thankful. But what any of this has to do with growing is sort of beyond me.

Just a quick lesson in history and geography - if you don't know where Australia is look it up on a map (PS - don't confuse it with Austria). Measure her up and compare the land mass to the US land mass and then tell the world it's a little rock My views on organics are here http://www.manicbotanix.com/hydroponic-grow-guide/hydroponics-v-organics.html

As I said each to their own. The problem I have with organics relates to the bullshit that organic lobbyists spin. It's about the most unethical industry in the world where marketing is concerned. They make Monsanto look ethical. Corpo capitalist hippies who talk utter rubbish and sledge market to make financial gains. My views about this are here (the science versus the hippy (crit) hyperbole) http://www.manicbotanix.com/hydroponic-grow-guide/hydroponics-v-organics.html


PS - nice outdoor grows. Organics goes great if you can get her dialed in. Only problem is hydroponics is far easier for novices to dial in.


You seem stressed ------- I'm not. BTW I feel your pain. That little rock I come from has a high (huge) minimum wage by US standards, great weather, great beaches, big open spaces that aren't over populated, free health care, higher education that is available to anyone (paid for by the Government on what is essentially an interest free loan that you pay back when you begin earning over $37,000 a year), a culture where you don't have to worry about some prick taking a shot at you (spent 6 months in Oakland - what a shit show of sheer stupidity), and friendly people who say hi to each other on the streets. Shame about the racist prick who is running the place right now but he won't be there for too long.

 

[glow]

Haha fuck a duck - did I hear a quack?

 

[glow]

Dr Fever--

I am glad you took the initiative to research my pictures...as there are zero of my garden....why is that? My attorney has advised me NOT TO POST PICS OF MY GARDEN ACTIVITIES...and he is the one that can keep my "freedom", if/when it is challenged. I know the size of "my anatomy"--and do not see how any good will happen to me, if I show and tell. Besides bragging rights in cannabis forum is not important to me; I truly believe only "bad" can come if I post pics of "incriminating evidence"...nothing "good" (I am older than most and have lots of assets at risk--a 20 year prison sentence would be the same as life for me).

So you understand, the pics in my album are used to supplement information I post on ICMag....and as to why there are "pumice pics", here is that post--
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6600114&postcount=16
LOL, rather educational, huh? Nothing sinister.

So I see you are part of the population that believe....if it ain't on youtube, it doesn't exist. Sorry but not everything that is real...is photographed! In fact, thanks to Photoshop, photos are can be lies and wishes.

BTW, I too used to sterilize my soil, until I discovered the "weak link" and eliminated it (which coincidentally was pumice...which I don't use anymore as it was loaded with symphylans and nasty nematodes), now there is no need for me to go through the sterilization process. Again, guess I am a few steps ahead of you.

Ohh...that personal jab about that "stupid dog", he died last month and is laid to rest in my backyard....he was my best friend and had a understanding of an excess of a 75 word vocabulary...hardly stupid. So...fuck off and go to hell!

Here is the pic of who Dr Fever called "stupid dog".....
View Image

And the ICMag thread about his hospice care (for those that love dogs...unlike Dr Fever)--
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=292577

Sorry to hear about your dog mate. I know how that one is. No one is more loyal than "mans best friend". The only time I have cried in my adult life is when I have lost my best friends.

Your attorney gave you good advice. It's just smart not to hold photographs of grows because these can be used as evidence. Any fool should understand this.

 

[glow]

Agree with Glow, diversity of bacteria/fungi is the key for microherd management. Lots of expensive and "affordable" alternatives out there. But don't forget about "feeding" the herd--IMHO, nothing is better than a small dose of "Raw Milk". Too many experts have concluded that, "Raw Milk is almost the perfect food for bacteria to grown in."....that is why it is "pasteurized".

Got Milk? Half gallon of "low fat Raw Milk" is less than $5.

Brief history--
"During the 19th and 20th century, food borne illnesses became rampant. While milk is a perfect food for people, it’s also a perfect food for bacteria. With more and more people moving to cities, and getting more distant from the source of their food, it became more important to solve spoilage issues, and extend the shelf life of foods. Our food distribution systems were having new problems.

In 1938, milk and dairy products were the source of 25% of all food and waterborne illnesses. (source) We needed a way to slow the growth of bacteria to provide a safe product for people to consume. With the development of pasteurization, milk and dairy products today account for less than 1% of all food and waterborne illnesses.

...Interestingly, pasteurization was developed by Louis Pasteur in 1864 to improve the keeping qualities of wine, and was later adapted to dairy. Commercial pasteurization of milk began in the early 1900s in the United States. Chicago became the first city to require pasteurization of milk in 1908, and Michigan was the first state in 1947.

Pasteurization is done for 2 reasons:

-Destroy harmful bacteria that may cause illness (food safety)
-To increase the keeping quality of milk (increased shelf-life)"

Thought you may find this one interesting - with thanks to Nutri-Tech Solutions (Australia - that tiny little rock lol)


Nutrition Matters - Free Recipe for DIY, Super-Productive Microbe Inoculum

The dictionary definition of the word "science" is "adherence to natural laws and principles". Nature has all of the answers and we were supposed to learn from her, rather than think we can do better. A prime example of this "learning" potential relates to the role of anaerobic organisms in human, animal and plant health. For some reason there was little enquiry into Nature's broader intention when considering the presence of multiple strains of lactobacillus on the surface of every leaf.

When we chop up a cabbage and other vegetables, layer them in a container, salt each layer and seal the end-product, we do not need to add any microbes for the sauerkraut to do its thing. The lactobacillus are always present and they just need salt (to slow down the competition) and anaerobic conditions to allow them to kick into action. "Why do these creatures inhabit every leaf surface?" was the question that was never asked. It is certainly not because this allows us to make fermented food without any added inoculum. It wasn't until Japanese researcher Dr Teruo Higa looked a little deeper, that we finally discovered the larger purpose of this biofilm.

Lactobacillus play a number of key roles in the soil and on the leaf surface. They appear to be involved in protection from numerous plant pathogens, they recycle minerals, some strains are voracious cellulose-digesters (humus builders) and, like all beneficial microbes, they help deliver nutrients to the plant. They also produce a range of exudates, like B-group vitamins, that stimulate plant growth. In humans and animals, they are the single most important probiotic in our digestive tracts.

Dr Higa appropriately sourced the organisms that form the basis of his product EM(Effective Microbes) from the surface of rice. It turns out that we can make our own super-productive lactobacillus brew using this same strategy. Here's how you can do it:

Recipe for Lactobacillus Inoculum

Ingredients:

1 cup of rice
1 x 4 L bucket (with lid)
1 L of water
1 fine mesh strainer
10 L of milk
1 x 20 L bucket (with lid)
4 tsp of blackstrap molasses

Procedure:

Place the rice and water in the 4 L bucket and stir vigorously until the water is cloudy white. Then strain, retaining the liquid. The rice can still be cooked and eaten. If you want to expand the range of lactobacillus beyond those that are naturally occurring, you could add a cup of Bio-Bubble™ into this mix. It seems to be a productive strategy.

Place the lid on the bucket, but do not fully seal it. There must be a tiny space for the mix to breathe. Then store it in a cool, dark place for 5 – 7 days.

At the end of the week there will be some gunk on top. Skim off the top layer and strain the liquid (serum).

Now add your fermented serum to 10 L of milk in the 20 L bucket. Leave this blend in a dark place to culture for another 5 – 7 days. Again, put the lid on the bucket but do not completely seal it.

At the completion of this process, there will be a layer of curd sitting on the top. Skim off the curd and use it as a probiotic for livestock. It can be tremendously effective, as lactobacillus are key beneficials in all digestive tracts. The pale yellow serum that remains is your unactivated inoculum.

Now add 4 teaspoons of blackstrap molasses to provide enough food to just keep the lactobacillus ticking over. This serum must now be refrigerated or stored in the cold room and will have a shelf-life of around 12 months.

This is the inoculum you will add to the soil or foliar spray on the leaf for disease control. Alternatively, you can further multiply the lactobacillus concentrate by adding 5 L of serum, 5 L of molasses and 2 L of Bio-Bubble™ to a 200 L drum of water. Stir and then leave this blend to brew for a further 5 days.

The completed lactobacillus inoculum is activated by adding 1 part serum to 20 parts unchlorinated water. The dilution is then added to the soil or foliar sprayed.


This recipe can obviously be upscaled considerably for larger areas or downscaled for home gardeners. You have created an inexpensive, super-productive, living fertiliser, which increases fertiliser performance, builds humus and helps to manage pathogens.

 

[Red Berry]

fermentation thing never really seemed to catch on . did any other company's make an emerald shaman type product ?