AN CarboLoad, is it really that good?

[sourpuss]

Promoting your book and website... and everyones stupid...

 

[sourpuss]

Assume your one of those finished college and anyone who didnt is an idiot right? Hope you have a book signing sometime... g low....

 

[sourpuss]

So if molasses contains some micro macro nutes... and your not doing organics, whats the sugar do? And no im not gonna go read your dribble. Isnt the sugar useless? 99 percent of the molasses is useless no? So why dont u just use the micro and macro... big scientist like you should be able to isolate and extract what you need no? Or does the sugars also do something... where everyone says sugars r useless in hydro unless the bennys r there to convert to useable stuff... or keep calling me a fool and ill keep up my 12 year old antics BROTHER BUDDY BUD BEST FRIEND

 

[glow]

Assume your one of those finished college and anyone who didnt is an idiot right? Hope you have a book signing sometime... g low....

Grow a brain dip shit and grow up troll. You're a sad indictment on growers. Yeah come to the book signing - that'd be fun tough guy

"Assume your one of those finished college and anyone who didnt is an idiot right?" Oh sourpuss - such a chip on the shoulder.Not what I think at all. Some of the smartest people I know never went to university (colleges in my part of the world are called high schools in your part of the world) but I'm afraid you aren't one of them. Now be a good boy and run off to the hydro store and buy a $50.00 bottle of sugar.

 

[sourpuss]

It wont be me buddy

 

[glow]

So if molasses contains some micro macro nutes... and your not doing organics, whats the sugar do? And no im not gonna go read your dribble. Isnt the sugar useless? 99 percent of the molasses is useless no? So why dont u just use the micro and macro... big scientist like you should be able to isolate and extract what you need no? Or does the sugars also do something... where everyone says sugars r useless in hydro unless the bennys r there to convert to useable stuff... or keep calling me a fool and ill keep up my 12 year old antics BROTHER BUDDY BUD BEST FRIEND

Would anyone like to answer this fool. Molasses provides carbon to bennies - bennies are widely used in hydroponics. You seem to think bennies are only used by organic growers (because you're a dumb shit). Prob is many growers don't understand that bennies need a food source to survive and proliferate in hydroponic nutrient tanks/reservoirs for extended periods of time. Molasses is the best bennie food there is because of high TDN and high carbon. Only it is dangerous shite when morons like you use it because if handled incorrectly you'll contaminate your tank/reservoir with potential pathogens. I.e. it feeds both good and bad bacteria and fungi (try washing the shit off your hands before you put them in the reservoir - there's a tip). Go do some reading ignoramus - you're beyond wasting time on. Here endeth the lesson. Now go throw a temper tanty brat and I'll catch you at the signing.

 

[SativaBreather]

@ sourpuss - mate ... lol grow the fuck up you dick, ya just embarrassing yaself

 

[glow]

@ sourpuss - mate ... lol grow the fuck up you dick, ya just embarrassing yaself

Must admit though - his death spasms are kind of entertaining.

 

[glow]

Promoting your book and website... and everyones stupid...

Hey bro, is English your first language?

 

[sourpuss]

Your right guys im being idiot. Im done... im stupid.. fucking moron fool is what I am.. sorry glow tbh my anger is coming from life and u set me off callin me stupid cause I wanted to know how to use carboload. Good luck with your book and website... I will fuck off now.

 

[glow]

Your right guys im being idiot. Im done... im stupid.. fucking moron fool is what I am.. sorry glow tbh my anger is coming from life and u set me off callin me stupid cause I wanted to know how to use carboload. Good luck with your book and website... I will fuck off now.

Ah man just try chilling.

 

[NEGT1]

Their base nutes are probably in line with a lot of other companies. I know they based a formula on GH 3 part, and let's face it, all hydro nutes are mostly water, that's just a fact. But, when you look at the whole AN line you have to just look at the product labels of some of the things they sell you realise how they market their stuff. There's absolutely no reason, except one, that 5 or more of those bottles couldn't be combined into one - money.

I've got no agenda, I'm just telling the truth based on what I know and what I've learned over the years. There's only one point of me posting here and that's to share what I know with people who might not.

The simple truth of it, from a completely impartial perspective, is that those bottles are set up for the sole reason of generating as much money as possible from simple mineral elements marketed as individual components in a complex system which, when combined, each give your plant a different thing which will boost your yields.

The truth is, it's a simple matter of marketing. The big bold stickers and overstated claims about what to expect from the products are a worm on a hook. There's very little truth to any of it, if any at all.

Always be dubious when you hear about "secret ingredients"
Always.

The reason nutrient companies market products like this is because by law they're obligated to disclose the minimum amount of mineral elements in a product sold as plant food. But they don't have to disclose things like sugars, or seaweed for example, other than to say they're there. That's why on the side of some AN product you'll see "0.5% magnesium" But the label talks about all the other different things and the benefits of these magic ingredients. The truth is, all you know for sure is in there in any amount, is half a percent of magnesium. The vast majority of the bottle is water, just like you could get out of your tap.

I'd estimate the price of each bottle of that stuff to be less than 50c. That's my honest to god estimate. I'd say maybe as low as 5-10c on a bottle in terms of raw ingredients. The only cost to them is the production of the bottle itself and the stickers to go onto them, and the manufacture and shipment of them. It's an astronomical markup which people are willing to pay because of the way they're advertised.

I honestly hope the laws change and companies have to disclose exactly what is in the bottle, because when/if it does, the floor will fall through on these companies and you will see what they have been selling all along, and most importantly, how cheap those same ingredients are to source elsewhere.

O. As someone who uses majority AN (with gh, canna, guano co., and hibrix also) I have to say. It still seems like people take issue with ANs marketing department more so than their quality.

Of course no one needs 15 separate bottles, but a lot of the AN growers I know don't use all of them. They use maybe 3-5....And relatively speaking AN is priced in the same range as competing companies. Back to my initial point, their quality isn't sub par or watered down if you compare similar products from other lines. AN just produces an extra 12 "additives" and tries to make new growers think they need them. That's why they have such a bad perception in my opinion, they push products to take more $$$ from new growers. I can understand why that annoys people.

 

[NEGT1]

To add, a lot of companies make extra additives that aren't necessarily needed but honestly as a coco grower some additives make it sooo much easier to dial in specific strains regime to hydro based styles. For instance, a specific cut I have likes extra mag early on so rather than adding a calmg supplement, I can add a mag supplement only.

Whether I should use bud candy or epsom is a different argument, but again, if we are going to purchase bottled nutrients these extra additives are useful but in very limited cases. If you use them strain specifically it costs much less rather than just adding everything to all strains.

 

[DONAJTHEIII]

Fuck AN Go GEN HYDRO !!!


ok im totally joking aha everyone has their own preference I haven't gotten a chance to run AN nutes but Ive run alot of others like GH,CANNA, H&G, BOTANICARE and tbh they all did me well. I personally believe that the most important factor is that you know what your plant needs and the correct dosages/ratios. I loved CANNA their products are premium but they also hurt my pockets lol only one I would never do w/o is their rhizo. Also I like drip clean by H&G so and I like botanicares silica blast. SO if you see my point over the course I added bottles I liked from each line.

6/9 GH
SILICA BLAST BOTANICARE
DRIP CLEAN H&G
RHIZO CANNA


In a sum : their is no special bottle out there thats going to make you a GOD grower. Exp is what makes that. Im sure AN are great products have buds that use them but like I said dont think its a end all be all. Giving the ladies what they want is what gets em happy whether its with a $400 canna line up or a maxibloom $15 dollar 1 feed. Proper application and exp/knowledge goes a long way.



AJAE

 

[DONAJTHEIII]

Would anyone like to answer this fool. Molasses provides carbon to bennies - bennies are widely used in hydroponics. You seem to think bennies are only used by organic growers (because you're a dumb shit). Prob is many growers don't understand that bennies need a food source to survive and proliferate in hydroponic nutrient tanks/reservoirs for extended periods of time. Molasses is the best bennie food there is because of high TDN and high carbon. Only it is dangerous shite when morons like you use it because if handled incorrectly you'll contaminate your tank/reservoir with potential pathogens. I.e. it feeds both good and bad bacteria and fungi (try washing the shit off your hands before you put them in the reservoir - there's a tip). Go do some reading ignoramus - you're beyond wasting time on. Here endeth the lesson. Now go throw a temper tanty brat and I'll catch you at the signing.

Alright glow yeah your right hydro users do use bennies me being one of them

but at the same time sourpuss has a point aswell. When using certain hydro nutes you can kill bennies so yeah theirs food there but whats the point if their dead. Heres an analogy alright

" you put a human into a gas chamber but give him food and water to survive. it doesnt matter because other factors killed him before he even got a chance to use the food. "

kind of a brutal analogy but yeah do you get my view ? aha

Like sour puss mentioned the molasses needs to be used by beneficial bacteria or bad bacteria will develop and problems will occur which is why when your making microbial teas they rec. you dont bubble over 72 hrs or bad bacteria will develop. And even being super careful and taking proper precautions bacteria is everywhere microbes all literally everywhere we just arent able to see them and they dont effect us thanks to our bodies microbes. ( microbiology 101 but thats another topic ) so id have to agree with sour puss that I would not put molasses into my rez. as most hydro users keep their rez for up to a week so the chance that bad bacteria will develop is high which is why people always say their rez is shit when they put it in aha


To use molasses in a hydro rez is something you would have to be pretty exp at and a really fine tuning regime in my opinion. I know people who use organics in hydro but they have a really fine tune regime of replacing the rez every 2 days-3 days MAX and other shit they do.

I dont know the details because thats not me. I just use certain beneficials like predators and microbial teas and know that my chem nutes arent there favorite thing which is why I reinoculate every couple of weeks with a tea. So it just depends but the majority of hydro growers I know can agree that beneficials will thrive way better in an organic regime compared to a so called inorganic regime. Thats just plain and simple thats where they came from and how nature works.

End all be all adding molasses just isnt me in a hydro set up and im sure 90% of hydro users will agree with me but if thats you and it works go with it. So sourpuss being a vet wasnt wrong and neither were you just depends on the growers.

PS: you two def lit the fire in this thread with the back and forth posts aha love it


AJAE

 

[glow]

Alright glow yeah your right hydro users do use bennies me being one of them

but at the same time sourpuss has a point aswell. When using certain hydro nutes you can kill bennies so yeah theirs food there but whats the point if their dead. Heres an analogy alright

" you put a human into a gas chamber but give him food and water to survive. it doesnt matter because other factors killed him before he even got a chance to use the food. "

kind of a brutal analogy but yeah do you get my view ? aha

Like sour puss mentioned the molasses needs to be used by beneficial bacteria or bad bacteria will develop and problems will occur which is why when your making microbial teas they rec. you dont bubble over 72 hrs or bad bacteria will develop. And even being super careful and taking proper precautions bacteria is everywhere microbes all literally everywhere we just arent able to see them and they dont effect us thanks to our bodies microbes. ( microbiology 101 but thats another topic ) so id have to agree with sour puss that I would not put molasses into my rez. as most hydro users keep their rez for up to a week so the chance that bad bacteria will develop is high which is why people always say their rez is shit when they put it in aha


To use molasses in a hydro rez is something you would have to be pretty exp at and a really fine tuning regime in my opinion. I know people who use organics in hydro but they have a really fine tune regime of replacing the rez every 2 days-3 days MAX and other shit they do.

I dont know the details because thats not me. I just use certain beneficials like predators and microbial teas and know that my chem nutes arent there favorite thing which is why I reinoculate every couple of weeks with a tea. So it just depends but the majority of hydro growers I know can agree that beneficials will thrive way better in an organic regime compared to a so called inorganic regime. Thats just plain and simple thats where they came from and how nature works.

End all be all adding molasses just isnt me in a hydro set up and im sure 90% of hydro users will agree with me but if thats you and it works go with it. So sourpuss being a vet wasnt wrong and neither were you just depends on the growers.

PS: you two def lit the fire in this thread with the back and forth posts aha love it


AJAE

Who told you hydroponic nutrients kill bennies?

Okay a couple of extracts from some material I am covering on this now:

The majority of soil living beneficial bacteria require oxygen for cellular respiration (also termed “oxidative metabolism”). Bacteria that require oxygen are classed as aerobes. Aerobes also require organic material or molecules (such as glucose) to produce energy. For this reason this class of bacteria are also called aerobic heterotrophs (i.e. aerobic heterotrophs are organisms that cannot live without free oxygen and do not produce their own food).

The main elements required for beneficial bacterial nutrition are C, H, O, N, S, P, K, Mg, Fe, Ca, Mn and traces of Zn, Cu and Mo.

‘Aerobic heterotrophs’ require a source of organic carbon, gaseous oxygen (air) and water along with the aforementioned mineral elements. Their source of energy is produced by the aerobic oxidation of organic material by metabolism to water and carbon dioxide. The energy released is stored in the phosphoanhydride bonds of ATP. When the energy is required it is released from ATP by hydrolysis. Certain environmental conditions are also required for the growth and division of bacteria like O2 concentration, pH and temperature.

ATP stands for Adenosine Tri-Phosphate. ATP consists of an adenosine molecule and three inorganic phosphates. ATP is the most important energy-transfer molecule in all living cells. ATP transports chemical energy within cells for metabolism. ATP is produced during photosynthesis and cellular respiration and used by enzymes and structural proteins in cellular processes, including biosynthetic reactions and cell division.

Phosphorous/phosphate plays a vital role in the ATP chain. Inorganic phosphorus in the form of the phosphate PO43- plays a major role in biological molecules DNA and RNA where it forms part of the molecular structure. Living cells use phosphate to transport cellular energy in the form of ATP. Nearly every cellular process that uses energy obtains it in the form of ATP. ATP -------> ADP (Adenosine Diphosphate) + Pi (orthophosphate) + energy.


For beneficial bacteria to survive in a hydroponic environment they will need ideal environmental conditions. Most hydroponic nutrients lack organic carbon sources for beneficial bacteria to survive. They can metabolise humic and fulvic extracts but one of the best sources of food for beneficial bacteria is molasses. Molasses typically contains ‘Total Digestable Nutrients’ (TDN) in excess of 60%, as well as containing a number of the major elements and trace elements required by bacteria, molasses is very high (50%+) in sugars. The sugars contained in molasses are an ideal source of carbon for heterotrophs. Cobalt and molybdenum, which are not usually listed in the typical analysis of molasses, will still be found in small traces.

Basically while the science is complex (a point too many overlook) it is dead easy to turn your nutrient tank into a micro tea brewer. You should also be watering the bennies into the substrate by hand but most importantly you need to provide a food source (i.e. carbon and other). You need to also filter your air using a 0.22 micron syringe filter. Unwanted microorganisms are present in air.

I'll post more on this shortly on manic botanix. Yeah - a lot of what you said was very wrong. I use a ferment of molasses at 1ml/L in my tank and a potato dextrose starch/broth at 1ml/L and never dump. I'm run to waste. Sort of can't believe the levels of misinformation that get spat around forums.

 

[glow]

PS would agree with you though - a lot of growers are using bennies badly - that's why I've just written about 50-60 pages on how to make your own bennie additives and how to maintain them in the system at massive numbers (cfu or spore counts). As for nutrients killing bennies - that's hippy shit started by a few know nothing mung heads. Disagree completely that bennies can be maintained better in organics - it's a simple case of knowing what you're doing in hydroponics.

 

[papaduc]

Hey glow, Couple of questions/observations.

"Heterotroph An organism that cannot synthesize its own food and is dependent upon complex organic substances for nutrition"

Do chemical feeds qualify as complex organic sources of nutrition?

Are you not talking specifically about chemoautotrophs?

Chemoautotrophs use inorganic energy sources, such as hydrogen sulfide, elemental sulfur, ferrous iron, molecular hydrogen, and ammonia

How do the two differ in terms of their use of organic & inorganic nutrients? Is it proven that all heterotrophs can feed on inorganic elements such as those in chelated hydroponic feeds?

A question I've had for a few people now though is: What are you trying to achieve by cultivating this bacteria in hydroponic system?

Also, when you say it's a myth that chemical feeds will kill off beneficial bacteria and micro life, are you saying that the concentration of salts in a chemically fed medium has no effect on their numbers?

 

[papaduc]

their quality isn't sub par or watered down if you compare similar products from other lines

If you're being selective, yes, otherwise, no.
Does AN base compare equally to GH 3 part base, yes, because they directly copied it.

But do many other companies sell 0.5% magnesium in a bottle of water? No.

When you look at AN for what it is, it's quite clearly a piss take. I mean you'd have to be pretty creative to put together a decent argument to say otherwise.

AN just produces an extra 12 "additives" and tries to make new growers think they need them

I think the word "just" speaks volumes to be honest.

You can't minimise the fact that they've constructed their 15 bottle nutrient line to milk growers for every possible penny. It's the whole point of the argument.

Whether I should use bud candy or epsom is a different argument

It's not even an argument. It's a case of whether you'd rather pay $20 for 0.5% magnesium sulphate or $1 for 100x the amount.

but again, if we are going to purchase bottled nutrients these extra additives are useful

They're not.

I know I'm being blunt here and I hope you don't take this as me being confrontational or rude, but there's just no other way for me to put it. I mean there's no room for me to say it any other way. AN doesn't leave me that room to say ok this additive might actually be beneficial in this way etc... because they don't even tell you what's in the bottle. You're investing in blind hope. Nothing more.

On a complete nutrient line fed at the right levels, I'll bet you good money that it's impossible to tell by eye the difference between one plant given all those additives, compared to another given none.

A plant should be in absolute optimum health on any complete full spectrum nutrient. It's that simple. If it's not, it's because of the inability of the grower to read their plants and provide the elements in the correct ratio to suit it's needs at that specific time.

If you use them strain specifically it costs much less rather than just adding everything to all strains.

Some plants will need different ratios of elements, but it's very rare you won't be able to get where you want using your base feeds alone. Very very rare. If it's hard to achieve that with your basic foods, change them. Simple.

For instance, a specific cut I have likes extra mag early on so rather than adding a calmg supplement, I can add a mag supplement only.

I want to see pictures of that cut at the time when you think it needs specifically more magnesium. I will give you money if you can't adjust your base feeds or buy a base feed to cater exactly for it's needs.

The calmag myth is the biggest most out of control issue in cannabis cultivation right now. It's massively massively overused. It's the most misdiagnosed deficiency in all of growing and is almost always something completely unrelated.

 

[glow]

Hey glow, Couple of questions/observations.

"Heterotroph An organism that cannot synthesize its own food and is dependent upon complex organic substances for nutrition"

Do chemical feeds qualify as complex organic sources of nutrition?

Are you not talking specifically about chemoautotrophs?

Chemoautotrophs use inorganic energy sources, such as hydrogen sulfide, elemental sulfur, ferrous iron, molecular hydrogen, and ammonia

How do the two differ in terms of their use of organic & inorganic nutrients? Is it proven that all heterotrophs can feed on inorganic elements such as those in chelated hydroponic feeds?

A question I've had for a few people now though is: What are you trying to achieve by cultivating this bacteria in hydroponic system?

Also, when you say it's a myth that chemical feeds will kill off beneficial bacteria and micro life, are you saying that the concentration of salts in a chemically fed medium has no effect on their numbers?

Nope I'm talking about (to quote) "Heterotroph An organism that cannot synthesize its own food and is dependent upon complex organic substances for nutrition"

Hence saying that these complex organic substances and inorganic substances (BTW) must be provided in solutions and substrates.

And:

"Also, when you say it's a myth that chemical feeds will kill off beneficial bacteria and micro life, are you saying that the concentration of salts in a chemically fed medium has no effect on their numbers?"

Yes it does (and yes it is a myth) - inorganic fertilizers at the right levels and balances act as micro food and thereby increase their numbers. Although massively oversupply nutrients or throw those nutrients out of balance horribly and you'll impact the micro population (typically the micros used in hydroponics - e.g. Trichoderma sp. and Bacillus sp, will sporulate until conditions become conducive again)

What are we trying to achieve by cultivating beneficial bacteria and fungi in hydro systems? Very simple really. Pathogen preventatives (and no contrary to claims by some bennie floggers they won't increase nutrient uptake in hydroponics - bit overly simplified but pretty much the case where the plants are healthy). When growing in organic substrates (e.g. coir) you should not be using oxidants such as hydrogen peroxide, chlorine or monochloramine. That is oxidants degrade organic matter so sterilization is out where organics are used in hydroponics. Nor should you being using ozone or UV as they break down chelates leaving them to precipitate from solution and in the case of ozone breaks down organic matter (e.g. amino acids and coco substrate). So what we are achieving is disease prevention while also being able to use organic materials/compounds. Inorganic nutrients are great (highly bioavailable with no need for microbes to make them available) - however benefits can be achieved through the use of certain organic additives with inorganic nutrition. Microbes in hydroponics enables this. Other than this, various Trichoderma sp., for example, increase root growth through inducing auxin responses. There's a few nice things that bennies can do in hydroponics. Basically the best of both worlds. Inorganic + organic.