Spurr's groundbreaking fert. mixes and methods (YouTube screen-cast and web site!)

[YosemiteSam]

Hey crys...nice to meet the dude that started the NPK-Ca-Mg nomenclature. Who would have ever known Ca and Mg were important without you.

 

[RicoT]

Hey YS, I don't know if it was this thread or another but you recommended amending peat with CaCO3 opposed to dolomite, and spurr earlier here opposed perlite for aeration amendment..
Can I get some clarity or reasoning behind this?
FWIW.. Plan to use the standard 3/2 jacks/calnit in premier peat w/ dechlorinated tap..

 

[Avenger]

is this the alkcalc you seek?
http://extension.unh.edu/Agric/AGGHFL/alk_calc.cfm

or this one:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/home/files


Should we have a contest to see who can post the earliest recorded usage of the N-P-K-Ca-Mg nomenclature?

 

[crysmatic]

is this the alkcalc you seek?
http://extension.unh.edu/Agric/AGGHFL/alk_calc.cfm

or this one:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/home/files


Should we have a contest to see who can post the earliest recorded usage of the N-P-K-Ca-Mg nomenclature?

Thanks Avenger. The alkcalc link is broken.

I'll take that bet. Aug 5, 2010. What's the prize?

@dizzlekush:

"Spurr's claims sound like marketing...and that he's a saint for giving out free info."
"Spurr used an old technique from a different industry, and applied it to hobby growing. It's not groundbreaking."

These are the only two times I mention Spurr, and I don't share your view that I "berate" him, or have a "f*ck you" attitude. I question his "claims" and his "technique". I considered the buffer complex, and high ammonium almost three years ago, and based on Daniel's recommendations (possibly through PM or on his site), I decided not to use it. Now I'm looking into it again.

I do accept that buffering has some benefit, and that's why I seek to learn more about it, and find those alkalinity calculators. I held off any praise until I could find specific, and relevant information. I take what I can; I don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

In reading Daniel's buffer article, he says, "I believe that a phosphate/carbonate buffer seems to be the best choice for most hydroponic growers." Not the citric acid/carbonate buffer. So why did Spurr use it? (against Daniel's suggestion, whom he obviously consulted). Carbonate buffers the high side, while citrate "did not afford a very good buffering effect" on the bottom side - and locks up calcium. Phosphate/carbonate (around 100 ppm each) won't keep your pH at 5.8, however, it eliminates wild swings. When someone makes a wild claim, and imo cobbles together several disparate ideas, I expect justification.

I read both of the papers as soon as you posted them. While I didn't find them valuable, it did lead me to find a paper by GW pharma - google phd_david_potter. 225 pages. No, I haven't read it in its entirety yet. Its method makes me more confident to lean on its results - hundreds of clones per experiment. And its thesis IS to increase THC production.

I'm not on icm often, and I'll try to read more. the farm is still my primary site. tbh, there are only a handful of people I follow. I give credit where credit is due.

 

[crysmatic]

the link is not broken...I didn't scroll down far enough :/

 

[xmobotx]

what is that 'other forum' where you guys cavort when you arent on icmag?

 

[YosemiteSam]

Hey YS, I don't know if it was this thread or another but you recommended amending peat with CaCO3 opposed to dolomite, and spurr earlier here opposed perlite for aeration amendment..
Can I get some clarity or reasoning behind this?
FWIW.. Plan to use the standard 3/2 jacks/calnit in premier peat w/ dechlorinated tap..

I am a believer in Albrecht ratios...approximately 68% base cation saturation of Ca and 12% Mg. Dolomite has way too much Mg. When you jack Mg higher you tend to compact your soil and reduce O2 in the root zone...you also raise your N requirement when Mg is high. you also tend to drive pH too high and then you start blocking out P and micros, also K. Then you start chasing your tail and you end up believing that Mg hog bullshit.

Perlite crushes after a few uses and turns to dust...hardly a good amendment for aeration. It also floats, so it will tend to raise to the top of the pot leaving the bottom lacking in air. Plus the dust is horrible. It ain't no big deal if you are not going to reuse your soil...but why wouldn't you? Crushed lava rock, pumice are both better choices imo.

Chuck some compost in with that Premier...you need something to buffer pH. Anywhere from 1/3-1/3-1/3 Premier-compost-drain amend to 1/2-1/4-1/4 will work. The better the compost the better the result.

 

[dizzlekush]

I don't share your view that I "berate" him, or have a "f*ck you" attitude.

Which is exactly why i started our interaction off with saying that it seems like you lack any introspective powers. Its pretty obvious by the actions of others (voting, snide remarks, private messages) that im not the only one that took your message as cocky & disrespectful to spurr. Perhaps that's not what you were going for, but its what we got from it. Tone is often lost in translation on the internet, everyone's guilty of being misunderstood at some point on a forum. Just recognize that there seems to be a disconnect between the way you think you're conducting yourself and the way others are interpreting your behavior.

I read both of the papers as soon as you posted them. While I didn't find them valuable, it did lead me to find a paper by GW pharma - google phd_david_potter. 225 pages. No, I haven't read it in its entirety yet. Its method makes me more confident to lean on its results - hundreds of clones per experiment. And its thesis IS to increase THC production.

Potter is an interesting author, ive read everything that hes put out. I doubt you'll find it that valuable of information if you didn't find the Coffman and Gentner papers valuable, there's pretty much zero unique conclusions that the paper draws (i.e. no new info), but that doesn't take away from the quality of it. Most of the experiments have only 10-20 plants per group (not hundreds) , and cloned plants had hugely different physical characteristics although similiar secondary metabolite ratios (meaning the test groups weren't that homogenous). BTW the thesis is not about increasing THC production, its about "improv[ing] the reliable production of phytopharmaceutical feedstock for the production of botanical medicines from Cannabis sativa L." GW Pharma cultivates several high CBD strains that have no detectable levels of THC.

For those interested in the book:
http://www.gwpharm.com/uploads/phd_david_potter_jp.pdf

 

[Avenger]

I'll take that bet. Aug 5, 2010. What's the prize?

Well, it wasn't really a bet, but you did take the bait. And made more of an ass out of yourself, IMO.

Here is knna, on 11-17-06 using that nomenclature, and sproutco on 12-30-06.


Since I am obviously not adding anything constructive here, I am going to stfu now, before I make too big of an ass out of myself.

 

[reg24]

@ iSMOKE.KUSH,

Nope, I didn't list the order to use each compound in this thread, great point. I listed that in the screencast video, but I forgot to do so here, thanks for pointing that out. Here is the relevant info:

(when not wishing to use Bru'n Water or UNH AlkCalc or HydroBuddy)

For direct addition to 100 liters:
(see this post: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=4707360&postcount=2)

1. fill reservoir with 95% of the volume of water needed

2. add potassium carbonate for veg, early-flowering and full-flowering. Default amount for RO water is 0.096 g/L (make sure to pre-dissolve it in some water, then pour it into the reservoir)

3. add potassium silicate, as AgSil 16H it's 0.324 g/L for veg, 0.405 g/L for preflowering and then some ('early-flowering' stage), and 0.356 g/L for later-flowering.

4. add citric acid at 0.024 g/L for veg, early-flowering and full-flowering. If the pH isn't 7.0, then add more until it is 7.0 (make sure to pre-dissolve it in some water, then pour it into the reservoir).

5. add 0.081 mL/L sulfuric acid (35% purity) for veg, 0.081 mL/L sulfuric acid (35% purity) for early-flowering, and 0.058 mL/L phosphoric acid (75% purity) for full-flowering (no sulfuric acid at that stage).

6. check pH and adjust if it's above ~6.3, use citric acid.
add fertilizer compounds (by weight) according to screenshots on page 1 (post #2).

7. start by adding calcium and magnesium rich compounds such as YaraLiva CalciNit and Epsom salt and magnesium nirate.

8. then add micro nutrient metals, such as FeDTPA, zinc, manganese, etc.

9. finally add fertilizer compounds rich in K and P. (the goal is to limit formation of P-Ca, P-Mg, etc., via citric acid affect the cations before P is added).

10. check pH and adjust if needed

11. add the remaining 5% volume of water

12. done.
​

For stock solutions:
(see this post: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=4707360&postcount=3)

1. Make stock solutions A, B and C from screenshots in 3rd post of this thread (here). Notes on correctly making stock solutions can be found in the download from my web site and found in this thread (here).

2. fill reservoir with 95% of the volume of water needed

3. add potassium carbonate for veg, early-flowering and full-flowering. Default amount for RO water is 0.096 g/L (make sure to pre-dissolve it in some water, then pour it into the reservoir)

4. add 10 mL/L of stock solution C for veg, 10 mL/L of stock solution C for early-flowering and stock solution C for full-flowering.

5. add citric acid at 0.024 g/L for veg, early-flowering and full-flowering. If the pH isn't 7.0, then add more until it is 7.0 (make sure to pre-dissolve it in some water, then pour it into the reservoir).

6. add 0.081 mL/L sulfuric acid (35% purity) for veg, 0.081 mL/L sulfuric acid (35% purity) for early-flowering, and 0.058 mL/L phosphoric acid (75% purity) for full-flowering (no sulfuric acid at that stage).

7. check pH and adjust if it's above ~6.3, use citric acid.

8. add 10 mL/L of stock solution A for veg, 10 mL/L of stock solution A for early-flowering and stock solution A for full-flowering.

9. finally add 10 mL/L of stock solution B for veg, 10 mL/L of stock solution B for early-flowering and stock solution B for full-flowering. (the goal is to limit formation of P-Ca, P-Mg, etc., via citric acid affect the cations before P is added).

10. check pH and adjust if needed

11. add the remaining 5% volume of water

12. done​

I was just looking for a little info on making stock solutions ...

Reg

 

[paperchaser825]

Hope someone can help me here...I have been researching nutrient profiles. If I am correct, using Spurr's 5/5/7/5 with silica would put me @ around 2.0 ec with my ~150ppm tap water.

Is this intended? If so, am I off in thinking this formula is formulated in order to reduce pH swings as a result of having a nutrient strength that is formidable enough (read strong enough) to eliminate pH swings while managing not to burn the plant or produce deficiencies?

 

[paperchaser825]

Anyone?

 

[paperchaser825]

So I finally got a bottle of calmg+ and I'm starting to use the 5/5/7/5/.5 GH bottle regime. I'm noticing some plants which I couldn't get to feed correctly on just FNB are now looking like they are trying to feed. The calmg+ is the General Organics version. I neglected to use the .5g/gal epsom for the last nute change and it still seems to be working. If I'm not mistaken I could add the .5g/gal epsom next nute change without fear of toxifying the plant.

 

[paperchaser825]

Just wanted to update. The 5/5/7/5/.5 is working really well for me at the moment. I have noticed in my non-recirculating system that the calmag+ from general organics doesn't dissolve well, but in my RDWC system it stays pretty well dissolved. The haze strain I am growing started to really show life as soon as I switched. New pistols, more lateral bud growth.

 

[Hottish]

Where did Spuur go to did he ever resurface here or else where ?

 

[Mikell]

Elsewhere. Google is your friend

 

[Hottish]

Elsewhere. Google is your friend

Has not been my friend , but found him @ TLG

 

[paperchaser825]

Has not been my friend , but found him @ TLG

what's tlg?

 

[Hottish]

what's tlg?

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6540349&postcount=6

 

[Ymir]

Why was he banned? I see so many banned accounts while browsing threads here it's kind of ridiculous.