Running a CLS Passive Recovery?

[krunchbubble]

Seeing that everyone is crying about the Appion's and saying that you could passive recover with a CLS...

How would that be accomplished?

 

[flatslabs]

The basics are the butane evaporates out of the collection pot and condenses back into a liquid in the storage tank. This is accomplished using temperature differentials (ie: Hot and Cold) and vacuum, rather than using a pump.

Any closed loop system can recover butane passively as long as you have somewhere to hook up a line.

 

[Roji]

It comes down to time. The recovery machines condense the vapor a lot faster than a hot/cold differential. When people are doing this professionally, they seek efficiency and productivity as this drives profits.

 

[ple1ades]

Myth if you have you ever tried passive recovery you have seen the vacuum you can pull from a differential temputure is much greater than any small cylinder can pull.

 

[icdog]

Ple1ades, how long does it take to extract 1lb of material in a tube and recover passively?

 

[Gray Wolf]

Seeing that everyone is crying about the Appion's and saying that you could passive recover with a CLS...

How would that be accomplished?

Take a look at the Tamisium and our Lil Terp designs. They heat one tank and cool the other, causing the butane to transfer to the cooled tank through an interconnecting hose.

Running an ice bath on one tank and 110F on the other, our Lil Terp recovery time was 1 hour 45 minutes, as was the two TE-175's we helped Tamisium customers learn to use.

The similarly sized Mk IIIA processes twice as much material in 15 minutes, to one hour, depending on the end product desired.

The vacuum systems not requiring heat, also allow us to make products not possible with a passive system, by operating at subzero temperatures and inflating the material into cotton candy for better purging.

I've read accounts of using colder and hotter to speed things, but hotter limits our product choices.

Perhaps some of the Tami and Lil Terps owners can chime in at this point and fill us in on their best passive techniques and what they have been able to achieve???

 

[maxinum]

Running a CLS passive recovery

Running a CLS passive recovery

Tamisium TE 700 . Vac down to 29 hg and cool column recovery tank/pot to -10 f cool solvent /recovery tank to -10 f . pressurize the 1500 grams of butane in the solvent /recovery tank to 45 psi with co2 . invert solvent /recovery tank and connect to column recovery tank /pot . dispense solvent threw material wile venting recovery tank /pot to atmosphere take's about one or two minutes disconnect the two . Place the recovery tank /pot/column into a 95 f warm water bath. pressure will build to 45 to 60 psi .place solvent /recovery tanks in ice salt bath start recovery .recover down to 5 psi vent the rest of butane to atmosphere you will lose about 150 to 200 or a little more grams of butane out of 1500 take's about 45 to 60 min then vac to taste . column on a TE700 holds about 6 oz of bud.

 

[hobb3s93]

how can this be achevied with mkiii or terpp?

i was just watching bret mavericks video on passive recovery, i understand how his system works but the thing i get confused by is his recovery/butane tank.

would using hot/cold still be able to draw the butane thru the lines on the terpp?

as well as could you pull vac on a regular 30# or 50# (from amazon)recovery tank?

or once everything was in the collection tank could you put it in room temp or slightly colder water then put the recovery tank in dry ice mix?
that way you could avoid heating extract too much aswell as recover?

it would be nice to avoid buying a recovery pump just due to cost .
sorry if these are dumb questions.

 

[Chonkski]

It would certainly be harder with an mkiii and a normal refrigerant recovery tank.. As gravity, and showering are usually the typical aspects of passive systems.

One would not be able to run at sub zero temperatures, in fact, you wouldn't be able to suffice any psi at all.. Meaning it would be a challenge in finding a medium between the right chill on the r/c tank, and not too much chill taking your psi.

Unless you were running with a propane mix of sorts, or put co2 in your tank like the tami instructions above..

This whole "kill active recovery" thing is giving me a headache. Just when I was getting comfortable with my systems.. Especially just knowing that I'm not open blasting, talk about danger and toxins.

Hopefully this all gets blown out of the water, because this subject seems to be taking over everything having to do with extraction.. Seems to be the new hot subject all over the internet

 

[Gray Wolf]

how can this be achevied with mkiii or terpp?

i was just watching bret mavericks video on passive recovery, i understand how his system works but the thing i get confused by is his recovery/butane tank.

would using hot/cold still be able to draw the butane thru the lines on the terpp?

as well as could you pull vac on a regular 30# or 50# (from amazon)recovery tank?

or once everything was in the collection tank could you put it in room temp or slightly colder water then put the recovery tank in dry ice mix?
that way you could avoid heating extract too much aswell as recover?

it would be nice to avoid buying a recovery pump just due to cost .
sorry if these are dumb questions.

Never done it, but if I did, here is how I would try.

Take apart the column assembly and set the dump valve aside.

Set aside the vent tube.

Set the column directly on top of the tank flange, using a screened gasket, and place the injection tee on top of the column using a screened gasket.

Remove the compression fitting from the top endcap, and replace it with a 1/4" X close nipple, a 1/4" ball valve, and a 1/4" MNPT X 1/4" JIC fitting.

Set on refrigerant scale.

Attach a hose from your storage tank vapor line to the injection tee on top of the column.

Vacuum down the system to -29.9" Hg.

Turn the storage tank up side down and suspend higher than the Mk III.

Open the storage tank valve and the top ball valve to inject butane. Measure transfer using refrigerant scale.

Close top valve and set tank upright, lower than the injection tee, and let sit for a few minutes.

Close tank valve and disconnect hose, losing butane vapor in hose.

Connect hose to vacuum pump valve port on the Mk III, an set it in hot water.

Leave the other end connected to the recovery tank vapor valve, and set it in cold water.

Open both valves and go take a few dabs elsewhere while magic occurs.

Periodically remove the Terpenator from the hot water and weigh.

When the refrigeration scale tells you that the Terpenator now weighs the same as before starting, remove both tanks from the water and dry off.

Remove the hose and lose butane in hose.

You might be able to skip the hose switch and recover the butane from the top of the column at some loss of efficiency, but worth checking out.

Open the pot valve and equalize, blowing the remaining butane to atmosphere, and open. Do this step in a spark free, well ventilated location.

Harvest oil and further process to purge and formulate.

 

[Gray Wolf]

It would certainly be harder with an mkiii and a normal refrigerant recovery tank.. As gravity, and showering are usually the typical aspects of passive systems.

One would not be able to run at sub zero temperatures, in fact, you wouldn't be able to suffice any psi at all.. Meaning it would be a challenge in finding a medium between the right chill on the r/c tank, and not too much chill taking your psi.

Unless you were running with a propane mix of sorts, or put co2 in your tank like the tami instructions above..

This whole "kill active recovery" thing is giving me a headache. Just when I was getting comfortable with my systems.. Especially just knowing that I'm not open blasting, talk about danger and toxins.

Hopefully this all gets blown out of the water, because this subject seems to be taking over everything having to do with extraction.. Seems to be the new hot subject all over the internet

Stick around long enough and you will see regular assaults on BHO in its every form.

It is good to have the opposition looking for chinks in our armor, because if anyone is going to find them, they will, but also understand that they often don't play by the same rules as the rest of us with regard to facts.

The game theory of people management says that when people can't win by the rules of the game, they will create different rules so that they can win.

Once of the strongest motivators to create new rules, is financial, where they are selling competitive products. Dr. Knowitallandmore enhances his product position by attacking the quality of the competing products, and no one has the remotest idea who Dr. knowitallandmore really is, cause that is just his avatar.

 

[BrainChild]

Could somebody please explain what is it about Bret Mav's sweet leaf system that allows it to run sub zero and passively, but not the mkIII? He is using just a vac pump, with the recovery tank on ice. Is it because he isn't using subzero butane, but rather chilling the middle collection tank on DI? I know this isn't this best presentation video, but this is what I mean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0EO78TjkG4&list=UUOVuN6EssIqLP1kS98IXRYg

 

[flatslabs]

Correct me if I am wrong as I have never seen one in real life, but the cryo stuff is a top down shower from a recovery tank and the column has a dry ice sleeve around it. In the video you posted, I didn't watch the whole thing, but it just looks like he is recovering passively.

If its anything like the subzero machines, they only use the recovery pump to recover the butane, but the extraction itself is passive shower / soak and the pump is only used at the end to recollect the butane back into the tank, not part of the extraction.

Also, be careful running systems like this. You need high pressure clamps and I sure as hell wouldn't have a sight glass going from room temperature to subzero temps as soon as that valve is dumped, thats asking for trouble to me.

 

[Chonkski]

well, the directions GW posted are brilliant..

I never considered just turning the r/c tank upside down. You would essentially be able to run just like the sweetleaf like you where asking. With cryo temps or not.

only with the sweetleaf, you can only do one pass, because you can only fit so much solution into the 'cryo' chamber with the d/i sleeve.

also, to correct flatslabs, with the MKIII we do use the pump for extraction. Because we use a bottom up flood. Which needs more than just pressure to fill the column. So we are essentially pulling the butane through the system and recovering at the same time.

Thanks GW for the great passive explanation!

 

[flatslabs]

I was referring to subzero using the pump only for recovery not the mkiii. On the videos I have seen of subzero, they use a top shower from a tank that takes quite a long time, they only hook up an appion to their collection pot at the end to recover the butane actively.

 

[Chonkski]

I was referring to subzero using the pump only for recovery not the mkiii. On the videos I have seen of subzero, they use a top shower from a tank that takes quite a long time, they only hook up an appion to their collection pot at the end to recover the butane actively.

My mistake, brother. I forget of the brand subzero..

Thought you meant running the mkIII at subzero temps.

 

[hobb3s93]

Never done it, but if I did, here is how I would try.

Take apart the column assembly and set the dump valve aside.

Set aside the vent tube.

Set the column directly on top of the tank flange, using a screened gasket, and place the injection tee on top of the column using a screened gasket.

Remove the compression fitting from the top endcap, and replace it with a 1/4" X close nipple, a 1/4" ball valve, and a 1/4" MNPT X 1/4" JIC fitting.

Set on refrigerant scale.

Attach a hose from your storage tank vapor line to the injection tee on top of the column.

Vacuum down the system to -29.9" Hg.

Turn the storage tank up side down and suspend higher than the Mk III.

Open the storage tank valve and the top ball valve to inject butane. Measure transfer using refrigerant scale.

Close top valve and set tank upright, lower than the injection tee, and let sit for a few minutes.

Close tank valve and disconnect hose, losing butane vapor in hose.

Connect hose to vacuum pump valve port on the Mk III, an set it in hot water.

Leave the other end connected to the recovery tank vapor valve, and set it in cold water.

Open both valves and go take a few dabs elsewhere while magic occurs.

Periodically remove the Terpenator from the hot water and weigh.

When the refrigeration scale tells you that the Terpenator now weighs the same as before starting, remove both tanks from the water and dry off.

Remove the hose and lose butane in hose.

You might be able to skip the hose switch and recover the butane from the top of the column at some loss of efficiency, but worth checking out.

Open the pot valve and equalize, blowing the remaining butane to atmosphere, and open. Do this step in a spark free, well ventilated location.

Harvest oil and further process to purge and formulate.

wow thank u gw!! and forgive me if im wrong/confused.

once i have terpp/mkiii

i would change it to top feed so i can use passive reclaim.

but i wont be able build pressure in my storage tank with out having

the solvent in a gas/warm state. so by flipping the tank upside down

and lifting it above the top of the column ,i will turn the solvent

back into a liquid state and also create a flow down the column ?

is it worth running this way or should i just get a recovery pump?

got nothing against recovery pumps, just would make my cls purchase quicker.

also where would be the best place to get the parts to replace the top end cap?

 

[hobb3s93]

It would certainly be harder with an mkiii and a normal refrigerant recovery tank.. As gravity, and showering are usually the typical aspects of passive systems.

One would not be able to run at sub zero temperatures, in fact, you wouldn't be able to suffice any psi at all.. Meaning it would be a challenge in finding a medium between the right chill on the r/c tank, and not too much chill taking your psi.

Unless you were running with a propane mix of sorts, or put co2 in your tank like the tami instructions above..

This whole "kill active recovery" thing is giving me a headache. Just when I was getting comfortable with my systems.. Especially just knowing that I'm not open blasting, talk about danger and toxins.

Hopefully this all gets blown out of the water, because this subject seems to be taking over everything having to do with extraction.. Seems to be the new hot subject all over the internet

i was planning on running propane instead of butane, would that change anything?

got nothing against active recovery or recovery machines ,just trying to save a lil money but maybe thats the wrong thing to do.

and just to be sure the advantages off running at subzero would be inline dewaxing? or the ability to pull that cold purge muffin?


thanx for ur response man, just kinda confused bout all this. thinkn i should just cough up the 7 bills or watever for an appion

 

[Chonkski]

Stick around long enough and you will see regular assaults on BHO in its every form.

It is good to have the opposition looking for chinks in our armor, because if anyone is going to find them, they will, but also understand that they often don't play by the same rules as the rest of us with regard to facts.

The game theory of people management says that when people can't win by the rules of the game, they will create different rules so that they can win.

Once of the strongest motivators to create new rules, is financial, where they are selling competitive products. Dr. Knowitallandmore enhances his product position by attacking the quality of the competing products, and no one has the remotest idea who Dr. knowitallandmore really is, cause that is just his avatar.

Agreed, like any industry, it's a hard start because either everyone is jealous of an industry that can possibly make more income than they do or else everyone else wants in. So the ones who are jealous find ways to attack and the ones who just want $$$ blow themselves up because they lack passion.

 

[Chonkski]

i was planning on running propane instead of butane, would that change anything?

got nothing against active recovery or recovery machines ,just trying to save a lil money but maybe thats the wrong thing to do.

and just to be sure the advantages off running at subzero would be inline dewaxing? or the ability to pull that cold purge muffin?


thanx for ur response man, just kinda confused bout all this. thinkn i should just cough up the 7 bills or watever for an appion

Running with subzero temperatures helps in picking up less wax, although some do this and claim inline dewaxing. It is not. Nor is it necessary to run cryo for GW's cotton candy muffin method(talk about a tongue twister!). But it's nice to have a big freezer. I can't do that because I don't. But I Winterize everything anyways..

As for running propane, it wouldn't be impossible. It might even be easier for recover. But definitely not cheaper.. You will need high pressure clamps and PTFE gaskets, and a lot of dry ice. Unless you're depending on pressure to keep the propane at a liquid state for extraction..