Curious on how many switched back

[siftedunity]

I have been unable to achieve 1gpw vertically or horizontally. I have grown both ways, not exclusively vert.

See this is the point. I can happily post pics but obviously I probably pulled them from google images lol.

Im not here to argue or belittle you but lets get these things straight, you have not taught us any science. Even if we forget about the vert/horizontal debate, your numbers are slighlty below what would be acceptable for me. 1gpw under a 1k is 35oz. Where did you get 45 from?

 

[LSWM]

I'm not preaching horizontal. My current grow is vertical. I'm open minded about which is better and in what situation.

With regards to the light efficiency chart, the point I'm making is that you're applying figures which point to a big increase in useable light. But there are other factors involved, not least the strict training you need to make sure you have all that square area open to the light.

You're applying numbers and rather than suggesting your opinion, or theorising, you're laying down facts about how this works and why x is much better than y.

The truth is, you will find out in time why it's not as simple as that.

There is more work involved in vertical training, especially with heavy branching strains. For me, that work isn't justified by an increase in yield which makes it worthwhile.



It means that to make use of the circular light efficiency, you need to be right the fuck on the ball with your training and plant selection and vegging.

To put it into perspective, that vertical grow you have going on now is nowhere near what you need for those light chart figures to be of any use to you. And for it to be at that level will require a hell of a lot more work than you're putting in now.

At that point, then you can decide if it's worth it, or if that bit of raw efficiency, when the work is factored in, is a false economy or not.

Much of what you just said I stated previously in this thread. If you look at the plants I have going at ~3 weeks into flower currently, I think you will see I'm getting very close to utilizing all 37.7 sq ft of cylindrical area. It definitely took work, I'm not denying that, nor suggesting Vertical is the end all be all for all situations. With extra branchy strains it makes it a real bear to keep contained. With another of my strains it stretches and fills in, but just perfectly. Requires little to no work at all. Definitely strain dependent.

Put simply, it is a more efficient use of lighting.

 

[LSWM]

See this is the point. I can happily post pics but obviously I probably pulled them from google images lol.

Im not here to argue or belittle you but lets get these things straight, you have not taught us any science. Even if we forget about the vert/horizontal debate, your numbers are slighlty below what would be acceptable for me. 1gpw under a 1k is 35oz. Where did you get 45 from?

Well then you should be very familiar with the numbers I posted on the previous page, concerning inverse square law and reflector efficiency, assuming I have "not taught any science." What have you brought to the table in this discussion? Shit talking, 1gpw #'s which you cannot back up, and....? At least I brought my honest experience and some cold hard FACTS.

Yeah hes right. You are hitting 16oz per 600w which is mediocre mate you should be hitting 25 per 600w to get the gpw. Thats easily achieved growing horizontal. Plus I read your thread, you cant even hit 1gpw and post 48, you fucked up your plants and need help. Then trying to school us.

I "should be hitting 25 per 600" yet you don't hit 41 per 1k. What's up with that!?

25/6 is 4.15. 4.15*10 is 41. These are your numbers I was working with, not mine.

 

[LSWM]

LSWM. Thanks for your post.....but you should have put it on page one so I could quit reading before the shit slinging started!

This thread shouldn't even exist. It exists merely so Dr. Fever can come in and measure cocks with everyone in the vert forum with his "7lb from 2k" 74 plant grow. Look at the Vert 101 sticky in this forum, it will aid you in your quest.

 

[Stayfoolish]

Yeah this turned Into a shit flinging fest really quick. All the hate is ugly.

 

[LSWM]

Yeah this turned Into a shit flinging fest really quick. All the hate is ugly.

I honestly regret most of it, and even openly apologized for my mistakes... Hard not to get involved when people make claims like..

But growing one bulb doughnut style is shit. I out yield most of those grows I see on here with 4 weeks veg and horizontal scrog. Work that one out.

Btw id live to see pics of these fantastic verticle grows rather than calling me a moron etc.

Then not posting pictures whilst asking for some and then talking shit to those who respond.

Yeah hes right. You are hitting 16oz per 600w which is mediocre mate you should be hitting 25 per 600w to get the gpw. Thats easily achieved growing horizontal. Plus I read your thread, you cant even hit 1gpw and post 48, you fucked up your plants and need help. Then trying to school us.

All I can say is at least my responses are honest. I should have never responded to Dr. Fever on the first page...

 

[papaduc]

Whatever reason it was started, it's a good debate. Things aren't as cut and dried as they are put out by some people and it's right that people question methods and ask relevant questions regarding numbers.

Listen, I'm here to bounce numbers back and forth and yes, question and challenge a few things. You've got to remember, I'm growing vertical and horizontal and the only thing that matters to me is which one really is better. It serves me no purpose to come here trying to knock vert grows/growers, not when I'm one myself.

I don't conform to one side vs the other, I'm cool with critiquing them both.

If the first post in the vert 101 was true, we wouldn't even be here. 135% more efficiency is a huge figure, but in reality it doesn't translate to yield. That's just a fact based on grow after grow, you'd be foolish to ignore that.

That was posted 4 years ago and since a lot of people have taken to vert largely because of figures like this, it's time to reflect now and see if people are hitting numbers which reflect that number. This vert forum has been open a while now and a lot of people are at it, so let's talk numbers now and see what's what.

Using the numbers you can see for yourself.

A bare basic flat grow under a 600 should yield at least 14-15oz.

135% more than that is about 35oz, which is a massive figure for a 600. That's for a mediocre grow as well.

If you go towards the upper end of what a 600 can achieve, and then you multiply that by 135%, you're talking stupid numbers which I don't think anyone's even got near to achieving.

So, the numbers clearly don't stack up in real world application, and there's a few good reasons for that.

First of all, when you are talking about a horizontal canopy, you are talking about 6-12" buds growing directly up in rows right across the whole area.

That is not the case in a vertical grow, unless you are absolutely nailing it. Which leads to the next point...

For me, nailing a vert is harder than nailing a flat. I'd welcome people to chime in and give their opinion on that, because for me, to put 4-6 plants under a 600 and get close to a gpw with relatively no training or attention throughout the entire grow, is easy in comparison to what it would take for me to get the same amount from a vertical setup.

 

[Stayfoolish]

Man I think you were targeted for no reason because you talked. I hate that type of shit. Honestly this whole forum is setup to learn and advance knowledge. You shouldn't have to defend your grow. You grow because you want to not so you can win a competion online. It turned personal quick which is always how an argument goes when someone either can't debate well or is just trying to stir shit. Either way. We all grow an amazing plant and it teaches us more than we will ever know. Respect.

 

[HerBnGorE(illa)]

135% of 15 oz = about 20 oz

 

[papaduc]

135% more, not of. In other words, double, plus 35%

150ft vs 64ft

 

[HerBnGorE(illa)]

Papaduc. Sorry I misunderstood.

 

[papaduc]

Cool, but now you know the numbers, you can see for yourself if they add up.

 

[LSWM]

135% more, not of. In other words, double, plus 35%

150ft vs 64ft

I think you are misinterpreting what the author of the sticky is trying to say. 64 square feet is the maximum space you can use in an 8x8x8 when growing horizontally. When growing vertically in that same 8x8x8 room with an 6x6x8 donut, the available sqft of trellis space increases more than double.

Nobody here is saying you will get 135% more nugs from the same lights.

EDIT: And not to mention fitting 4 4x4 trays into an 8x8 space is impossible. A 6x6 vert cylinder would fit, and leave you room to work inside.

 

[LSWM]

The biggest attraction to growing vertically for me was better space management. Grow up rather than out. Means more lights/plants/nugs in less FLOOR space.

On top of that, light is used SLIGHTLY more efficiently. I think my numbers pages back sums that up pretty well. You trade double the sq ft for 20% less intense light. Whether that is more efficient, you can decide. I think it is.

 

[Shcrews]

if you have limited wattage then vertical is better

if you have limited space then vertical is usually better, unless it's a room with low sloped ceilings.

if you are limited by neither than whichever is easier is better

i must be bored, i'm outta here

 

[twist1uc]

So, did you ever figure out who's dick is bigger?

 

[Shcrews]

So, did you ever figure out who's dick is bigger?

or clit..

 

[siftedunity]

The biggest attraction to growing vertically for me was better space management. Grow up rather than out. Means more lights/plants/nugs in less FLOOR space.

On top of that, light is used SLIGHTLY more efficiently. I think my numbers pages back sums that up pretty well. You trade double the sq ft for 20% less intense light. Whether that is more efficient, you can decide. I think it is.

if I were you I would pick a method and work it till you get the 1gpw. if you switched from horizontal before that, you have not really given it a proper chance.

 

[DrFever]

From what I read, people in this thread preaching Horizontal, mainly you, Dr. Fever, and siftedunity, are either full of shit, or hitting the same numbers as vert growers are. By full of shit I mean Dr. Fever at 7 lbs from 2k. Maybe I'm just overly skeptical though. I'd love to be proven wrong. I think if there is a way to do 3.5lbs per 1k it's with SOG, that I think we can all agree on.

I have not preached Horizontal i started this thread to see if any vert growers went back to horizontal is all make it sound like i am trolling again i really don't give a crap who grows what ever way,,, But what gets me going is many talking the talk Yet most are not hitting GPW in there vert actually there stacking plants packing it around there 1 k light or 600 what ever and still failing miserably comparing it to horizontal sure lets grow trees does it really matter i learned years ago no matter what root mass also dictates YIELD like comparing 1 liter grow to a 30 gallon pot size grow which plant you think would win one on one ???
Funny how everyone will mention Heath Robinson Cause His name always comes up when matching vert to horizontal YETTTTTTTTTTTTT
There has not been another grower EVER since Heath to match his grow and looking at some of his pics he was suppose to be using one 600 ???? there appears to be few more lights either way does not really matter right


I went from big number grow rooms to 12 plant scrogs pretty much matching my big grows I hit 1160 - 1180 dry grams per 1000 watt ( 4 ) plants consistently and thats with 4 plants vegged 5 weeks
Yet when looking at vert grows they run stacked pack em stack em and not hitting them numbers , so who is really full of shit cause there are allot more horizontal journals etc showing big numbers but hey i will post links from IC on vert grows and final numbers you be the judge lol


Pretty sure that means that the better light efficiency equates to better yield numbers. You just said so yourself.

I find it amazing you cannot find on you tube vert par readings vs horizontal par readings i bet cause light is being shot out 360 degrees par readings would not even come close to reflected horizontal where both sides of the light are being directed to one area my bet it would destroy the vert in par readings

 

[DrFever]

Dam how in the hell did my reply go into LSWM post lol but it did its not about who has the bigger DICK
its really what we all want and that is best possible yield and like pab mentioned you can throw all the Vert rule of thumbs out the door cause its really not happening cause if it was as a cash cropper here i would of jumped ship
and yea my 5 plant scrog on bottom of page turned out to 4.75 pounds 2000 watts then continues to a 12 plant scrog 3 k which put me into the 7 pound mark
Horizontal
were talking 12 plants folks And in all honesty i don't think i can find a 3000 vert grow 12 plants and compare yields but i will go look now and see what i can find