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The War On Drugs Is A Joke Here's Proof

mrwags

********* Female Seeds
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KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) — Afghanistan's world-leading opium cultivation rose a "staggering" 59% this year, the U.N. anti-drugs chief announced Saturday in urging the government to crack down on big traffickers and remove corrupt officials and police.

The record crop yielded 6,100 tons of opium, or enough to make 610 tons of heroin — outstripping the demand of the world's heroin users by a third, according to U.N. figures.

Officials warned that the illicit trade is undermining the Afghan government, which is under attack by Islamic militants that a U.S.-led offensive helped drive from power in late 2001 for harboring Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda bases.

"The news is very bad. On the opium front today in some of the provinces of Afghanistan, we face a state of emergency," Antonio Maria Costa, chief of the U.N. Office on Drugs and Crime, said at a news conference. "In the southern provinces, the situation is out of control."

He talked with reporters after presenting results of the U.N. survey to Afghan President Hamid Karzai, who voiced "disappointment" over the figures. "Our efforts to fight narcotics have proved inadequate," Karzai said in a statement.

With the economy struggling, there are not enough jobs and many Afghans say they have to grow opium poppies to feed their families. The trade already accounts for at least 35% of Afghanistan's economy, financing warlords and insurgents.

The top U.S. narcotics official here said the opium trade is a threat to the country's fledgling democracy.

"This country could be taken down by this whole drugs problem," Doug Wankel told reporters. "We have seen what can come from Afghanistan, if you go back to 9/11. Obviously the U.S. does not want to see that again."

The bulk of the opium increase was in lawless Helmand province, where cultivation rose 162% and accounted for 42% of the Afghan crop. The province has been wracked by the surge in attacks by Taliban-led militants that has produced the worst fighting in five years.

Opium-growing increased despite the injection of hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign aid to fight the drug over the past two years. Costa criticized the international effort and said foreign aid was "plagued by huge overhead costs" in its administration.

Costa said Afghanistan's insecurity is fueling the opium boom, saying he has pleaded with the NATO force that took over military operations in the south a month ago to take a "stronger role" in fighting drugs. NATO says it has no mandate for direct involvement in the anti-drug campaign.

"We need much stronger, forceful measures to improve security or otherwise I'm afraid we are going to face a dramatic situation of failed regions, districts and even perhaps even provinces in the near future," Costa said.

The U.N. report, based on satellite imagery and ground surveys, said the area under poppy cultivation in Afghanistan reached 407,700 acres in 2006, up 59% from 257,000 acres in 2005. The previous high was 323,700 acres in 2004.

The estimated yield of 6,100 tons of opium resin — described by Costa as "staggering" — is up 49% from 4,100 tons last year, and exceeds the previous high for total global output of 5,764 tons recorded in 1999.

Last year, about 450 tons of heroin was consumed worldwide, 90% of it from Afghanistan, according to the U.N.

The report will increase pressure on the beleaguered Afghan president. Karzai has often talked tough on drugs, even declaring a "holy war" against the trade, but he is increasingly criticized for appointing and failing to sack corrupt provincial governors and police.

Costa urged the arrest of "serious drug traffickers" to fill a new high-security wing for narcotics convicts at Kabul's Policharki prison. "It has 100 beds. We want these beds to be taken up in the next few months," he said.

At the same news conference, the Afghan counternarcotics minister, Habibullah Qaderi, said the government had the will to make arrests, but lacked the capacity to gather evidence to prosecute "the big fish."

Yet he maintained that with its newly unveiled national anti-drugs strategy, Afghanistan could "control" drug production within five years.

Costa was less upbeat. "It's going to take possibly 20 years to get rid of the problem," he said, citing the experience of former opium producers like Thailand, Turkey and Pakistan.

In an indication of the alarming extent of official complicity in the trade, a Western counternarcotics official said about 25,000 to 30,000 acres of government land in Helmand was used to cultivate opium poppies this year.

The official, who requested anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue, said police and government officials are involved in cultivating poppies, providing protection for growers or taking bribes to ensure the crops aren't destroyed.

He said the Taliban — which managed to nearly eradicate Afghanistan's poppy crop in 2001, just before their ouster for giving refuge to Osama bin Laden — now profit from the trade.

In some instances, drug traffickers have provided vehicles and money to the Taliban to carry out terrorist attacks, he said. But added that the ties seem to be local and that there is no evidence of coordination between drug lords and the Taliban leadership.



You gotta love in the end how they do what they can to tie drugs to terrorism. All I wanna know is how the hell do they get these weight numbers? Does Afghanistan have some kind of opium trade plant where ya drop off the poppies for weight and processing? The truth be known many of the books we read in school were written by so called good people who smoked the hell out of this stuff (Poe comes to mind first)

So it looks like 2007 is gonna be another very bad year with 3 times the Herion needed for the addicts in America who consumes 2/3 of it.

May your God help us.


Mr.Wags
 
G

Guest

The unwritten law of Uncle Sam's 'War On (Some) Drugs' is that the degree of offense committed goes down in inverse proportion to a country's or individual's willingness to kill for Uncle Sam, and the immediate perceived need for that specific killing to be done..

The Northern Alliance was initially hired by the CIA (the various factions making up the Northern Alliance, that is) for $$70 million U.S. dollars in cash.

And Sam's not about to cut off the heads of his uber corrupt brothers in arms when they're willing to squeeze triggers on the Taliban.

Just like Sam wasn't overwhelmingly offended to the point of taking -real- action when (then-opium war lord) Chiang Chi Fu/Kuhn Sah was moving opium and heroin out of the Golden Triangle.

Nor was the U.S. government -really- overwhelmingly offended by the hash-and-opium-for-weapons trade during the early 80's when the Mujahideen were using profits from contraband to upgrade their weapons.

And Uncle Sam didn't seem to have been to damned offended when Ollie North was, at bare minimum, peripheral to guns-for-dope scenarios on remote Costa Rican runways, and perhaps elsewhere (like Panama, for example.)

It's only really a 'war' on dope when the producers or traffickers are persons that don't assist Uncle Sam's military or corporate escapades, or when it's your and my kid with a joint in their ash-tray.

Then it's a heinous issue!!

Just ask Sam. He'll tell ya'!! ;^>)

moose eater
 
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GOT_BUD?

Weed is a gateway to gardening
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Veteran
Does this mean I'll finally be able to get some decent opium in the States?
 
G

Guest

^^^
>>>Does this mean I'll finally be able to get some decent opium in the States?<<<

If the laws of supply and demand stay in force (has anyone socialized the contraband market successfully yet??), you'll be able to get opium and heroin more cheaply and readily than ever before....

What someone might do is talk to the Afghani growers who've replaced their indica with poppies, about reversing the trend of less hash, more smack, and figuring out a way to make their better black hashish more profitable for them.

That'd be more toward a win:win outcome for teh average toker..

Unfortunately opium and smack are smaller bundles, and more profitable.

moose eater
 

fjällhöga

HazeAddictedFanatic
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lol , no war on anything will bring good result´s , just prohibotion ... and education , thats it
 

PazVerdeRadical

all praises are due to the Most High
Veteran
Certain plants are made illegal in man-made law like in Afghanistan, to have an excuse to sell fire-arms, ammunition, and have political power over forein nations.
can you say new world order?
paz.
 

mriko

Green Mujaheed
Veteran
hahaha ! I just couldn't help but really laughing out very loud when I heard these news, very funny.
How many times have we seen in the news solemn declaration about how they were going to wipeout poppy growing in Afghanistan, here's the result ! pretty effective ! I love it !

By the way, that story about 90% of heroin coming from Afghanistan is pure bullshit. It's forgeting about Burma, about Turkey (were a VERY LARGE part of Afghani opium or morphine base is turned into heroin), Mexico or Colombia (primary source of heroin for USA).

Nor was the U.S. government -really- overwhelmingly offended by the hash-and-opium-for-weapons trade during the early 80's when the Mujahideen were using profits from contraband to upgrade their weapons.

of course not, US (and especially CIA) has smuggled loads and loads of heroin to fund operation, most especially during vietnam. THere even was an air company specially created for that (Air America).

For those interested you can read Alfred Mc Coy's "Politics of heroin in South East Asia", with a new edition treating as well about the Gold Crescent. absolutely amazing book ! check also at my former colleague website : http://www.pa-chouvy.org/
top notch work as well.


What someone might do is talk to the Afghani growers who've replaced their indica with poppies, about reversing the trend of less hash, more smack, and figuring out a way to make their better black hashish more profitable for them

don't think so, it's rather food crops that have been replaced by poppies.

you'll be able to get opium and heroin more cheaply and readily than ever before....

2 years ago 1kg of opium was about same price than 1kg of charas, but prices will probably not go down that much. smugglers need to maintain a certain level in order to make the dollar harvest. They are rather stocking most of the dope, and take it out steadily so as to maintain the prices in their favour. THe world is NOT gonna be showered with huge quantities of Afghan heroin, even less US, for most part is for Eurasia market, especially central asia countries, russia and europe.

just my two cents,

Irie !
 

naga_sadu

Active member
By the way, that story about 90% of heroin coming from Afghanistan is pure bullshit.

I thought so as much. I know for a fact that most processing is done in Turkey.

Mriko- just wondering for info's sake. Was there any sort of "eradication" programme in force for drugs during Najibulla's time in Afghanistan?

I'm asking out of curiousity because in the 80s I've been to Termez (part of USSR in Uzbekistan) and charas was as free as weed would be in Kerela today. Opium was surprisingly easy to score as well. Although there was a full blown war going on not too far down south, the "scene" up in Termez was surprisingly chill.
 
G

Guest

Hi mriko,

Some areas in the lower United States have already been reporting lower prices for heroin, and as with cocaine, the purity in some parts is also up. Maybe that's more Mexican influence, but I didn't think so.

Yes, the U.S., in about '81 and '82 was suddenly -FLOODED- with Afghani black hash (green in the center) in roughly 4 oz. 'plates.' Right about thew same time that the Mujahideen were switching from captured Soviet weaponry and hand-made British .303s to modern weapons, including Stingers.

It was mostly some pretty decent mid-grade 'shish, too

If you research Kuhn Sah/Chiang Chi Fu, also from the early 80s, you can find where DEA and CIA actually had a shoot-out with each other over one of his loads, that was later written up in mainstream news such as Time, Newsweek, etc. as a 'case of mistaken identity,' during an ambush, though Mother Jones and Soldier of Fortune both were sources who doubted that there was any 'mistake' about it; rather that the two agencies simply have very different goals.

I'd been under the impression that some of the farmers in Afghanistan had done the same thing that former cannabis farmers in Thailand had done; replaced cannabis with poppies.

moose eater
 
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mriko

Green Mujaheed
Veteran
just wondering for info's sake. Was there any sort of "eradication" programme in force for drugs during Najibulla's time in Afghanistan?

seems that under Najibullah's rule nothing was done to eradicate drugs, as shows an abstract of IRINnews article "At the end of the communist regime there was no control over anything and the usage of drugs among soldiers in the army was particularly prevalent.”

not forgetting about your PM Baba, will reply soon.

Some areas in the lower United States have already been reporting lower prices for heroin, and as with cocaine, the purity in some parts is also up. Maybe that's more Mexican influence, but I didn't think so.

Here in Europe too prices have been going down since a while. but whatever the rise of heroin production, it is not in the benefit of smugglers to shower us with huge quantities of dope, which would make the prices go down ever more. what I know is that between 2004 and 2006 (that's a very short time I know) prices in Pakistan have not gone down.
Mexican heroin is usualy of pretty low quality, so called "black-tar". But Colombia has been exporting white heroin since late 20th century,, and is doing more and more.
When I visited Karkhanai bazar (smugglers bazar) last spring I was proposed some coke at the crazy price of 40euros per gram. was coming from Colombia, US and germany. There are very high probabilities that some comes from coke for heroin deal between different local criminal networks. but still on low scale for Colombian coke networks prefer to keep away from Af/Pak networks in general.

I'd been under the impression that some of the farmers in Afghanistan had done the same thing that former cannabis farmers in Thailand had done; replaced cannabis with poppies

well, I don't know. I rather think they replaced food crop with poppies. note that poppy cultivation has mostly increased in areas precedently being large poppy growing ones, not cannabis ones. A friend of mine who was in Kunar valley (taleban stronghold) in 2004 told me that on it's way he could see along the road poppy fields, separated by cannabis fields (or vice versa heheh), noting it was very beautifull ! I'm planning to go afghanistan next spring, so I'll ask around !

Irie !
 
G

Guest

mriko,

I suspect that rows/strips of purplish-blue poppies, separated by indica cannabis bushes, and the scent of both of them mingling, skunky pine and rich flowers, would be not only beautiful to the eye, but to the nose as well.

Perhaps from the air it might resemble a flag of some sort? ;^>)

If you're interested in the story about Kuhn Sah from Mother Jones, It was entitled something to the affect of 'Chasing the Dragon,' and is well before he ended up in a Burmese (luxury) prison cell.

I came across that article, and the others, as part of research that I was doing almost 25 years ago.

The thought of DEA and CIA in a fire-fight, with 'mistaken identity' as the excuse was humorous; like in 1980-82 there were -all kinds- of 6', blonde, blue-eyed, white guys carrying CAR-15 shorties around in remote Northern Thailand... "Oh -DUDE-!! We didn't realize that was -YOU- man!!! Sorry!".... lol!

The old feller was/is a Confuscian, with original works in his library. An impressive man if not for being pimped by the CIA.

>>>There are very high probabilities that some comes from coke for heroin deal between different local criminal networks.<<<

Isn't diversification the key to successful capitalism in many cases? ;^>)

moose eater
 
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naga_sadu

Active member
seems that under Najibullah's rule nothing was done to eradicate drugs

DAMN! I thought so as much and thanks for confirming it!! I'm missing "Crazy Ivan" so much already. Under them, nobody was forced to take "crop substitution" or "cannabis eradication" programmes. People could just...live in peace w/out conforming to DEA / UN dictates.

Although "officially" drugs were illegal in the USSR and no distinction was really made between hard and soft drugs, enforcement outside the cities was next to nothing. In the Central Asian Republics, it was as free as it got (except the provincial capitals such as Almata etc).

I just wish I coulda taken you to Termez (Uzbekistan) when it was under USSR control. It was bizzare (in a good way). Like you'd be scoring in a chowk in full public view- not to mention in full view of Soviet troops also. Nobody gave a fuck. The balconies on either sides of the chowks was also a sight worth seeing. Lotsa goofy dudes smoking opium! Now it's all gone :( Grrrrrr! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

I remember in 1988, my grandpa told me "good luck." I asked him why and he said something along the lines of "the USSR is going to fall, now we'll have to move closer to the West and now the country is going to be alot more unlivable." And he was right. At first I was stoked at the USSR falling so that in my country, after we moved closer to the West, I would be enjoying all those fancy skyrises, shopping malls, flashy cars, all kinds of electronic toys etc. Me, along with 99.9% of the population just ended up getting a HUGE middle finger in the end...

Dunno if you noticed but most countries, at least in Asia, who followed the Soviets had lot better pot scenes and laws, that's for sure. Even if they had strict laws, they never applied them. And were ALOT more democratic than the Western allied ones. Like India, Laos, Cambodia. Vietnam was ok till they started accomodating Western MNCs.

Just goes to conform that the sensibility of the pot laws and the overall coolness of the pot scene in a country is directly related (i.e. inversely proportional) to the degree of neo-liberalism and corporatism it has endorsed. The more corporatism you see, the crappier the drug laws and pot scenes a country will have. Damn! I'd never realised you could quantify pot laws and pot scenes!!!

This formula can be applied in any developing country. Look at Iran and Saudi. Thailand and India. The case goes on and on...of course there are few exceptions but I believe the correlation I mentioned above holds true a good 95% of the time.

Damned, if I could make just 1 wish, it will be that India goes back to those "mera naam joker" days :D :joint: Is it going to happen? It happened in Bolivia and Venezuela, I don't see why it shouldn't happen in India...

not forgetting about your PM Baba, will reply soon.

No hurries man, thanks for reading them!!
 
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Rosy Cheeks

dancin' cheek to cheek
Veteran
There's a flaw in the discource of Western leaders that is so ridiculous it's almost embarassing. It's the old "the emperor wear no clothes" again.

Do they take us all for complete idiots?

During the Taliban regime, Mollah Muhammad Omar banned the cultivation of opium poppy in line with fundamental Islamic law. Poppy fields were burned, farmers were left with the alternative of growing food crops or face the consequences. As a mean to stem drug production, it worked. There was still opium production, but prices went up.

When the Northern Alliance ousted the Talibans from power, old warlords came back in style. The US led coalition first shunned them, but then realized they could not govern the country without their cooperation. So the naive thinking that you could democratize Afghans as easily as Germans and Japanese had to step back for a more classic colonial way of running a country. Let the Northern Alliance warlords run things, dress them up in new uniforms and give them just enough arms to keep the Talibans at bay, keep an international force in place to assure that the warlords don't fuck up completely, put a politically correct puppet leader (Karzai) in place as Head of State with so called free democratic elections, and you've got something that looks like democracy, from far.

The problem is, thanks to 9/11 and its aftermath, the eyes of the world is still on Afghanistan, and the drug production is sky-rocketing since the "good guys" came to power.

This is where the western world bites is own tail, because not only is it the cause of this, but it fails deplorably to evaluate and make use of the situation.

The Opium Poppy is an very useful plant. It can be eaten (poppy seeds), and it can be used for various medicinal purposes, such as anaestethics (morphine), but also as treatment for asthma, stomach illnesses, and bad eye sight. How can Afghanistan be over-producing Opium when there are hospitals in Africa and elsewhere that lack anaestethics?

Afghan Opium production is probably the best way to put the country back on it's feet economically. The eradication of poverty will solve a truckload of problems the Western world is now trying to solve militarily. The problem is not there, but in what organisations are actually profiting from the traffic. Even a child can figure out that Afghan Opium should be sold to benefit Afghan farmers, in equitable commerce. For this to happen, that commerce must be legalized. That is, in the best of worlds.

What is probably going to happen in the real world is that the CIA and the DEA are going to se their budgets boosted in order to scale-up the war on drugs. The Afghans will suffer, European and US taxpayer's will pay more money to fund an invented war that nobody profits from, exept the war industry.
 
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M

Mr. Nevermind

How long has "the war on drugs' Been going on? That should show how much of a joke it is. There isnt a war on drugs, there is a war on drugs that the US government cant control. Its not like they are fighting drugs to help us be healthier people. If that was the case then alcohol and tobacco would be illegal. But thhey can control its sale and production and tax both so its fine. Regrdless of how many people die from those substances a year.

The war on drugs is just another example of "pork spending". Programs that throw and waste alot of $$ to states that really dont benefit that state.Kind of like the rain forest program in Iowa.

War on durgs is about as effective as the war on terror








Nevermind
 

naga_sadu

Active member
Do they take us all for complete idiots?

The shotcallers know that the public doesn't dictate terms in a modern socioeconomy. More than taking us all for idiots, elitist backed regimes simply don't give a shit about the masses...except when it comes for collecting taxes and buying war bonds, of course. I also forgot to mention election times...

What is probably going to happen in the real world is that the CIA and the DEA are going to se their budgets boosted in order to scale-up the war on drugs. The Afghans will suffer, European and US taxpayer's will pay more money to fund an invented war that nobody profits from, exept the war industry.

Again, I miss the Soviet bear here. Considering that their economy and industry were state run, the profit and loss equation wasn't so pronounced as say, the US economy. I dunno the Soviets did some pretty bogus shit, but they didn't initiate outright horse dung maneuvers such as "the war on terror" and the "war on drugs." Well, they did kinda coax the schools they funded in other countries have giant pics of Lenin in the libraries, but that's about it. Almost all countries under Socialist tutelage were FAR superior to live in (except materially) and had FAR MORE SANE laws.

War on durgs is about as effective as the war on terror

Spot on, Mr. Nevermind. But it just goes to show you the danger of having an socio-economy where too few people have too much clout. In the 50s, corporatism was pretty much cemented in the average Americans' mind as an "acceptable" way of governing a socioeconomy and anyone who said so otherwise was harassed, even arrested and labeled a "communist spy" or a "traitor to freedom" or whatever else...

Either ways, the war on terror and the war on drugs are just means to keep the arms mfrs and the construction biz moving and afloat. After the Soviet Union fell, the mil. construction biz in the US took a HUGE blow. So did the arms mfrs. Every shot caller knows that the war on drugs + terror will be very ineffective but alas, for the ppl. backing them, it's big money. Which is the central moving factor in today's global economy by and large...

And another advanageous point for the corpo elites (who profit thru war on drugs and terror) and their puppet governments is that unlike the cold war, there's no physical enemies. The Soviet Union was a country w/ a capital, a population, ICBMs, a sphere of influence etc. "Drugs" and "Terrorism" are just vague concepts and the fraudsters w/ lotsa $$$ can blow it out of proportion in anyway they like provided they control the media. Because there's no way to guage how much "threat" these concepts presume (since they aren't physical entities). The media is already controlled by the same shotcallers who profit much from war on terror and drugs and I'm sure I don't even need to mention that...

When the Northern Alliance ousted the Talibans from power, old warlords came back in style. The US led coalition first shunned them, but then realized they could not govern the country without their cooperation. So the naive thinking that you could democratize Afghans as easily as Germans and Japanese had to step back for a more classic colonial way of running a country. Let the Northern Alliance warlords run things, dress them up in new uniforms and give them just enough arms to keep the Talibans at bay, keep an international force in place to assure that the warlords don't fuck up completely, put a politically correct puppet leader (Karzai) in place as Head of State with so called free democratic elections, and you've got something that looks like democracy, from far.

The problem is, thanks to 9/11 and its aftermath, the eyes of the world is still on Afghanistan, and the drug production is sky-rocketing since the "good guys" came to power.

This is where the western world bites is own tail, because not only is it the cause of this, but it fails deplorably to evaluate and make use of the situation.

I dunno I'm not an Afghan expert here, but as a side comment, I'd still say Najibulla did a much better job running Afghanistan than any other Western installed leader in the past and present...combined. Although he wasn't the ideal example of a humane and just leader, he and his system were DECADES ahead of ANYTHING that has come out of Afghanistan ever since his hanging. All of America's past prodigies (The Taliban included) failed Afghanistan. The present ones such as that clown Hamid Karzai have failed even more. Just makes u think a few times about certain powers' intentions when they go about campaigning for world peace and democracy...
 
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T

THCV

The Senlis Council, a think tank, has proposed legalizing opium in Afghanistan for the creation of painkillers for the third world. It's looking more and more like that is the smartest way to go. Check it out:


Senlis Opium Licensing

Excerpt:
Afghanistan faces a reconstruction crisis of an unprecedented scale. The illegal opium economy lies at the nexus of extreme level of poverty and escalating violence, particularly in the southern part of the country. The US-led International Community has failed to unlock Afghanistan reconstruction crisis with an over-emphasis on aggressive counter narcotics strategies such as poppy crop eradication. The country’s share of opium production remains unchanged at 87 per cent of the world total, with 85 per cent of heroin consumed in Europe originating from Afghanistan. At the same time, however, opium poppy is the traditional crop and the raw material for essential medicines such as morphine and codeine. Afghan opium represents is a huge potential to be re-directed into legal channels becoming a major driver for Afghanistan’s rural development and addressing the global shortage of opium-based medicines. Existing social control structures at different community levels would maximise the potential of opium, ensuring minimum diversion to the illegal market. The Senlis Council’s Feasibility Study on Opium Licensing in Afghanistan for the Production of Morphine and other Essential Medicines seeks to investigate the potential for Afghanistan to grow licensed opium poppy for the production of essential opium-based medicines. The next step of evaluation comprises a series of local pilot projects that will test the control and pharmaceutical aspects of poppy licensing for the production of an Afghan brand of humanitarian morphine.
 

Rosy Cheeks

dancin' cheek to cheek
Veteran
naga_sadu said:
Again, I miss the Soviet bear here. Considering that their economy and industry were state run, the profit and loss equation wasn't so pronounced as say, the US economy. I dunno the Soviets did some pretty bogus shit, but they didn't initiate outright horse dung maneuvers such as "the war on terror" and the "war on drugs." Well, they did kinda coax the schools they funded in other countries have giant pics of Lenin in the libraries, but that's about it. Almost all countries under Socialist tutelage were FAR superior to live in (except materially) and had FAR MORE SANE laws.

I don't miss them that much, I don't think the Afghans do either. The communist doctrine apart (lost when Stalin came to power), what's there to miss? The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was just another geopolitical move to dominate what they concidered a satellite state. In other words, an imperialist occupation.
They bulldozed in to save a Marxist regime that had already declared war on Afghanistan's social, cultural and religious structure (don't forget that Brezhnev's "atheist" war on Islam went pretty much the same way as Bush's war on Islamic "fascism"). They Red Army was brutal and oppressive, they played the local warlords against eachother and favoured corruption in a traditional divide and conquer-scenario. They went there to rule, not to help.
 
G

Guest

in the western hemisphere mexican and guatelmalan governments eradicate many acres of poppy field for dope production all the time (world news for sources). The situation is furthered by the soft dope like vicodin and oxycotin which is so commonplace in society its almost a social norm, sadly. Our lives are too valuable to waste and then those who have a substantiated use for these softer versions of dope are justified in my opinion to use the drugs but at what cost! I have seen people downing fistfuls of pills in my day and wonder about the ramifications of such acts not only in the physical sense but our spiritual side of the equation and you know what, Nam-myoho-renge-kyo is all I can say! I live and let live, and hope everyone finds happiness in their unique exsistence, and will work to help facilitate more compassion in our angry world and continue to usher in peace and strive for Kosen-rufu. We must be active in politics and government and not be on the sidelines talking smack! I really want to stand up and help our cause and I am everyday by preparing and pushing forward to make impacts in our world overrun with bullshit aimed against us collectively.

Thanks for the thread wags, its inspiring to know and remember if we aren't compassionate humans we are just as good as beasts.
 

naga_sadu

Active member
I don't miss them that much, I don't think the Afghans do either. The communist doctrine apart (lost when Stalin came to power), what's there to miss? The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was just another geopolitical move to dominate what they concidered a satellite state. In other words, an imperialist occupation.
They bulldozed in to save a Marxist regime that had already declared war on Afghanistan's social, cultural and religious structure (don't forget that Brezhnev's "atheist" war on Islam went pretty much the same way as Bush's war on Islamic "fascism"). They Red Army was brutal and oppressive, they played the local warlords against eachother and favoured corruption in a traditional divide and conquer-scenario. They went there to rule, not to help.

Think you misunderstood. What I meant by saying "I miss the Soviets" was that I missed my own society being under their tutelage- rather than the current scenario which is alot crappier. Why? Because we could live in peace w/o bogus wars initiated on even more bogus concepts. But I completely agree w/u that the invasion of Afghanistan and their thirst for a warm water port was a completely unnecessary blunder and prolly accelerated their downfall. Another thing I personally miss about the Soviets was that when we still had them around, I remember our leaders standing up to the "industrialised" powers along w/ this so called "UN" and giving them middle fingers when needed instead of meekly bowing to them + putting salams like house slaves.

I've not travelled to Afghanistan during SOviet times but I'm really quite unsure on whether or not Brezhnev initiated a "war on Islam" there or whether he was reacting to the notion of a prosecuted Islam created and solidified by the CIA. I'm saying this because during my stay in Termez, Uzbekistan, I saw no signs of any sort of strife along ethno-nationalist/ religious lines being waged. The Red Army didn't bother anyone and of course, there was lotsa charas and opium moving about which is a good thing. And no matter how regimes hide such things, a man / gal can easily figure it out if something's tense or not. And till hell broke loose in Chechnya, it was always a model of a "modern agrarian community"...even by European standards. And after Stalin the Chechen culture/ socioeconomy was never infringed upon at any given point, yes, even during Brezhnev's time.

I wouldn't kid myself by saying that the CIA wanted to use this "prosecuted Islam" concept to create secretarian strife and ethnic unrest inside the USSR's Central Asian Republics. There are quite a few Afghans living in cities like Delhi, Mumbai as cab drivers mainly. And the impression I got was that the treatment being metted out to their countrymen under the ISAF is alot worse than the treatment metted out to them by the Red Army. But still- the invasion of Afghanistan was the USSR's biggest blunder and invasion is unjustified no matter who does it. I hope that should clear the miscommunications up a bit...

But despite all this- on a comparative scale Najibullah did a MUCH better job than any of the West's past and present prodigies in power there. Even though the West prolly pumped in 1000 times more $$$ into Afghanistan.

The communist doctrine apart (lost when Stalin came to power), what's there to miss?

For one, they didn't force countries under their tutelage to illegalise natural resources like cannabis. The same was maintained even within their territories. If you want a living example, please do take the time and visit Kazastan and Uzbekistan. In Kazastan, try and go to Chu. Find an older person (50+) who's chill and talk to him about how life was before. Not just charas but life in general. Go to Uzbekistan next. Go from Tashkant to Termez via Samarkand on a landborne route. And you'll see everything soon enough. The fertile spots amidst the arid geography once used to sport wild ganja. Now...UN signs boasting about "crop substitution." Get down to Termez, find an open minded older type near any chowk and ask again, on how life is now and how life was back then. Ask about the charas scene too.

Other than a few miscalculated fiascos, non capitalist systems, by and large, had alot less garbage as far as the masses + sanity went.

We must be active in politics and government and not be on the sidelines talking smack!

I agree w/u 100% but we can't realistically expect change to happen within a generation. I'm sure we all know our MJ history and we know that other than that bullshit devil's weed and all that moralistic hype, the real reason behind its illegalisation was to keep the paper, pharma and chem industries afloat. Also, alcohol industry joined the bandwagon. Why? Because unlike paper and pharma, the harvesting hemp for industrial as well as medicinal use won't require that much startup costs. As in, we'll see lots of entrants into the economy. In effect the traditional paper, pharma industries would go obsolete.

In 1937, fuckhead corporate pigshits such as Hearst (a pioneer for marijuana criminalisation) had enough clout in the government to push forth marijuana illegalisation. The alcohol industry also joined the bandwagon.

Has their clout declined today? NO. Has it increased? YES. We all know that corporations who have a vested profit initiative in keeping marijuana illegal can only survive through consumers. Like me and you. It's just that they have lots of consumers and a very large base. I think it will be most fruitful if we work around this.

As in, identify ALL corporations who have a vested interest in keeping MJ illegal and offer substitute products which are given by small scalers to at least 4-5 people in your community. Encourage others to do the same. Of course, you can't use the slogan of "marijuana legalisation" when you talk to someone who doesn't smoke pot- you'll have to use something else, perhaps something along the lines of "be local buy local" or something.

Most of us are growers here. If we can grow herbs, we can definately grow ayurvedic plants. Some of these plants, for example, are a very healthy substitute to many pills corporations offer. Studying the different varieties of ayurvedic plants, growing them, and offering them to people (who'd otherwise buy pills) is a great start, even if it's not a spectacular one. In summary, just substitute whatever corporate solution (the corpos who have a vested interest in illegalising mj) with a non-corporate one to at least 4-5 ppl in your community, encourage them to do the same, and expand it depending on your abilities and the response you get. You can even have a profitable business running this way. Do it steadily and slowly and monitor your progress monthly. I'd always do this when I was in the States.

Right now, a government induced change is highly improbable. Very forward thinking folks in govt. such as Pete Stark have been campaigning vigorously for the abandoning of prohibition. For crying out loud, there's even a group L.E.A.P- law enforcement against prohibition, which is doing the same thing pretty much. Problem today is, the prohibition is a corporate induced phenominon and not a government induced one.

Also, most people who have influencial positions of power in many "democracies" have achieved it thru corporate backing. The amount of $$$ required to make a meaningful entry / career in today's political scene requires the funds only corpos can provide. So, many otherwise forward thinking policy planners are bogged down by this.

I say we work around the corpos first, especially if you're living in North America.
 
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The War on Drugz is hypicritical on so many levels. They want you to believe that there trying to get rid of the so called problem, but in reality they wont. Think about it if there were no more drugs then what would these ppl. do for a living cuz they would be out of a job!!!
Then when they take down one big drug runner what happens next .....5 more replace that one and fight for power.....If they would just leave it alone that means less drug wars amongst themselfs and others and more freedom for us.:pimp3:
 

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