Desperate for help!

[Buck36]

I posted this message in the wrong section, I don't know how to delete the post so I'll copy n paste the message into here.. my bad

What's up guys just signed up here been a long time member on other forums. Been struggling with a problem for the last week or so, really hoping someone here can help!

I'll try to get as much info in here as I can..

- Day 22 flower
- 17L pots w/plant magic soil
- Using Ionic nutrient schedule for soil
- Background EC of tap water 0.34, pH 7+
- Water going in 6.5-6.9 always. Veg EC around 1.3 now at 1.8 (including background) at 7 weeks old

Problem..

I've had purple stems on the fan leaves for a while, leaves were always a perfect green and soft, so I put it down to genetics.

After switching to the bloom nutes as advised by the ionic soil schedule, I first noticed some brown spots and a slight yellowing of the fan leaves, I fed some cal/mag at next feeding and the spotting seemed to stop.

Whilst the spotting stopped the yellowing continued and the majority of the big fan leaves in the groom are affected, I've stripped a lot of them away and they're starting to look pretty naked. More and more big fan leaves are turning yellow and it feels like at this rate I'll have none left in a week or two. The buds are forming nicely, frosty and dense, especially for the stage I'm at.

After posting the thread at another forum, I had a response from one person, who was adamant I had locked out, his view on things was flush or lose the lot, I couldn't get a second opinion, so I signed up here

In my attempts at diagnosing the problem I flushed 70L of water through a 17L pot, the reason I did this was because my runoff was around 5.5pH but it has been this way from the start, and plant magic clearly state on their website, and I quote "The run-off from soil does not represent the true pH at the rootzone. Many growers make the mistake of measuring the run-off which is not a true accurate reading for what is happening around the roots"

After flushing 70L of pH'd water, I got the runoff up to 5.8, this discouraged me from flushing further, I then gave the rest of them plain pH'd water, collected some runoff and tested the E.C, it was ranging from 0.8-1.0, and the pH ranging from 5.5-5.8, would I be right do discount a lockout as the problem here, because after the yellowing started in an attempt to give the plants more nitrogen I fed 3 times in a row with the bloom nutes (every 4 days) with a feed at 1.8 EC, on the third feed it was 1.8 going in and 1.7 runoff, would I be wrong to assume that this tells me there is no real buildup of nutes in the soil, and lean more toward the fact I switched to bloom nutes way too early.

I apologize for signing up and dropping this huge post I'm just driving myself mad with this problem and got nowhere else to turn, really appreciate any your thoughts on this, TIA. Peace

 

[marrdogg]

No expert but dam don't you think that ec is high? Your pushing them too hard IMO. You probably do have lock out with it that high. 5.8 in soil ridiculous! Evidently you got more shit in your soil than you thought and clearly didn't flush enough water through. I would get maybe drip clean and flush the shit out of them til ec drops. Could you ever get the ec the same as what was going in I assume r/o water. I would half at very least what your feeding. I use some pretty nasty tap water that has a ppm over 400 I run simple MaxiBloom and don't take ppm's over 900 max and have zero issues. You have lock out due to high ec. My honest opinion.

 

[marrdogg]

And if I'm correct run off is an adequate representation of ph in soil. Hope you figure it out.

 

[10ftGanja]

h&g says drip clean shouldn't be used on a crop half way through because there might be buildup present that will be unlocked and then fry the plants!
The last thing I would recommend is to use that when theres a known buildup!

 

[marrdogg]

I have used drip clean and never fried a plant. I know you read it but have you ever used it?

 

[marrdogg]

Also that what it's intended for. If you unlock nutrients in the mist of flushing, tell me kind sir, how would you burn them if there's nothing present in your medium. Also give advice on products you've actually used. PEACE!

 

[10ftGanja]

Yes. I read the directions before I used it.
If it were safe to use to remove a buildup that would mean it doesn't do what it claims to do.
Do not use it to remove an existing buildup.

 

[10ftGanja]

Its intended to clean drip lines and PREVENT salt build up.
You do not want to release all of that at once! It will fry your plants!
WARNING: IF INTRODUCING DRIP CLEAN IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CYCLE, IT CAN RELEASE SALTS AND NUTRIENTS THAT MAY HAVE BEEN STORED UP IN THE MEDIUM. THIS MAY BURN YOUR PLANTS OR CAUSE A NUTRIENT LOCKOUT OR BOTH. IT IS RECOMMENDED TO USE DRIP CLEAN FROM THE BEGINNING FOR THE BEST RESULTS.

 

[Buck36]

No expert but dam don't you think that ec is high? Your pushing them too hard IMO. You probably do have lock out with it that high. 5.8 in soil ridiculous! Evidently you got more shit in your soil than you thought and clearly didn't flush enough water through. I would get maybe drip clean and flush the shit out of them til ec drops. Could you ever get the ec the same as what was going in I assume r/o water. I would half at very least what your feeding. I use some pretty nasty tap water that has a ppm over 400 I run simple MaxiBloom and don't take ppm's over 900 max and have zero issues. You have lock out due to high ec. My honest opinion.

The E.C isn't 5.8 that was the runoff pH, have a look again at what I posted mate

 

[Buck36]

If they had locked out, and I gave them 4L of plain pH'd water into a 17L pot to get a little runoff, given the fact I fed at an E.C of 1.8 3 times over 12 days, what would you expect the runoff to be in terms of E.C, they were ranging from 0.7-1.0, this is the main reason I'm discounting a lockout, would you not agree?

 

[10ftGanja]

Also that what it's intended for. If you unlock nutrients in the mist of flushing, tell me kind sir, how would you burn them if there's nothing present in your medium. Also give advice on products you've actually used. PEACE!

Is it best to do final flush with Drip Clean or just water?
We recommend using only properly PHed water for the pre-harvest flush.

Its intended to prevent buildup, not remove a large buildup at once. That will fry your plants
Please go sign up at riu if you want to spread misinformation
thank you

 

[marrdogg]

Its intended to clean drip lines and PREVENT salt build up.
You do not want to release all of that at once! It will fry your plants!
WARNING: IF INTRODUCING DRIP CLEAN IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CYCLE, IT CAN RELEASE SALTS AND NUTRIENTS THAT MAY HAVE BEEN STORED UP IN THE MEDIUM. THIS MAY BURN YOUR PLANTS OR CAUSE A NUTRIENT LOCKOUT OR BOTH. IT IS RECOMMENDED TO USE DRIP CLEAN FROM THE BEGINNING FOR THE BEST RESULTS.

Granted that is correct if introducing to an already established feed schedule. Which is completely different than a flush. Look man I'm not about to argue with something that I know works cause have done on more than one occasion. Again if you are flushing and rid medium of all salts how could you possibly fry your plants. In an established feed program and you get lock out common sense will tell you not to introduce with a regular feed program because yes it will free salt resulting in an elevated ec level. But once again if you are flushing you will not burn your plants as you are removing those salts. And also like I said before this is advise from experience not from reading a fucking label. I ask again, have you ever used drip clean? Because I know exactly what it does. So give advice after you've actually tried a product. Not for arguing, useless so I leave this conversation alone. Find somebody else to entertain you. PEACE!

 

[marrdogg]

The E.C isn't 5.8 that was the runoff pH, have a look again at what I posted mate

Sorry bout that I meant 5.8 ph not ec. Is your soil amended with anything? Also you say you've been giving plain ph water, does your ph still come out 5.8? If it does you do have something bound up in your soil.

 

[10ftGanja]

Granted that is correct if introducing to an already established feed schedule. Which is completely different than a flush. Look man I'm not about to argue with something that I know works cause have done on more than one occasion. Again if you are flushing and rid medium of all salts how could you possibly fry your plants. In an established feed program and you get lock out common sense will tell you not to introduce with a regular feed program because yes it will free salt resulting in an elevated ec level. But once again if you are flushing you will not burn your plants as you are removing those salts. And also like I said before this is advise from experience not from reading a fucking label. I ask again, have you ever used drip clean? Because I know exactly what it does. So give advice after you've actually tried a product. Not for arguing, useless so I leave this conversation alone. Find somebody else to entertain you. PEACE!

you just told this guy he had a lockout and told him to use drip clean... remember?
anyhow... please learn to use the products before you start spreading misinformation.
they tell you not to flush with it!

 

[marrdogg]

I told guy he had a possible lock out if you read correctly. Also I was a member of ROY many years ago probably before you started growing. See the difference between me and you is the fact that your giving advice on something you read. I give advice on actual experiences big difference. Also he did not state he was about to harvest as drip clean stars not to flush prior to harvest but ongoing grow he is absolutely safe to flush. You just joined IC and already starting shit. Let me see pics of your grow I will gladly show mine as you don't even have a seedling on your page.

 

[marrdogg]

Again 10ft I am not here to argue nothing gets accomplished. Instead of stating what I'm telling op is wrong tell about your experiences while using this product. I'm here to learn because no one knows it all, but please I work better with real world experience versus someone telling me what they read, I have the bottle. What we need is the experience of the product, we are all hear to learn, not to dispute something without actually using, especially the way that your saying is wrong.

 

[10ftGanja]

when you figure out what the product is for, you will realize how its supposed to be used and then you can come back and apologize for the incorrect info you've suggested

 

[marrdogg]

when you figure out what the product is for, you will realize how its supposed to be used and then you can come back and apologize for the incorrect info you've suggested

FUCKING TROLL!

 

[resinryder]

WARNING: IF INTRODUCING DRIP CLEAN IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CYCLE, IT CAN RELEASE SALTS AND NUTRIENTS THAT MAY HAVE BEEN STORED UP IN THE MEDIUM. THIS MAY BURN YOUR PLANTS OR CAUSE A NUTRIENT LOCKOUT OR BOTH. IT IS RECOMMENDED TO USE DRIP CLEAN FROM THE BEGINNING FOR THE BEST RESULTS.

Isn't that basically the same thing that Clearx does? Releases salts and nutrients that have been stored in the medium?
If you were to add the drip clean into the nutrient solution and give as a part of the feeding regimen then yeah there may be a problem. If used as part of a flush and followed with plain water to wash the medium out thoroughly I don't see a problem with it.

Now regarding the op's problem. Too much EC. Soil, as well as any medium will store the excess, and in your case has caused the ph to lower in the medium, and result in lockout issues.
Do or have you ever used a clearing agent? If not and you're using non organic nutes you need to flush your medium once a month to keep the root zone/plant healthy and keep your ph balanced out.
Personally I would flush the medium with a flush type product, followed with plain water to wash away the buildup. When the feeding is resumed keep the EC in the area of 1.2. This way the plant gets the food it needs, the plant works better to make the most of it. I'd rather have a plant that is hungry for more and using what it's getting than overfeeding it, storing more in the roots zone and causing issues.
I use coco coir in flood and drain tables and use Clearx once per month to avoid any problems.
In regards to nutrients, less is more. You can always go up but it's a bitch to correct problems.

 

[10ftGanja]

Isn't that basically the same thing that Clearx does? Releases salts and nutrients that have been stored in the medium?
If you were to add the drip clean into the nutrient solution and give as a part of the feeding regimen then yeah there may be a problem. If used as part of a flush and followed with plain water to wash the medium out thoroughly I don't see a problem with it.

Now regarding the op's problem. Too much EC. Soil, as well as any medium will store the excess, and in your case has caused the ph to lower in the medium, and result in lockout issues.
Do or have you ever used a clearing agent? If not and you're using non organic nutes you need to flush your medium once a month to keep the root zone/plant healthy and keep your ph balanced out.
Personally I would flush the medium with a flush type product, followed with plain water to wash away the buildup. When the feeding is resumed keep the EC in the area of 1.2. This way the plant gets the food it needs, the plant works better to make the most of it. I'd rather have a plant that is hungry for more and using what it's getting than overfeeding it, storing more in the roots zone and causing issues.
I use coco coir in flood and drain tables and use Clearx once per month to avoid any problems.
In regards to nutrients, less is more. You can always go up but it's a bitch to correct problems.

In theory the clearex is used to remove buildups and drip clean is used to prevent buildups.
With drip clean it is slowly releasing buildup to be available to the plants.
Ive never seen the pots turn white with salts from using drip clean, and I have flushed copious amounts of water through them with drip clean.
However, with Florakleen the pots turn completely white from all the salts that were released.
When using drip clean I think it releases whatever is on the roots to be absorbed.
I really do not believe h&g would warn people not to use it half way if it didn't risk burning the crop.
It seems like they would be turning away atleast 50% of their potential customers who they only have one shot at because they fail miserably and quit growing.
If it didn't risk burning the crop, what motivation do they have to warn against using it half way?