Avoiding Root Aphids in recycled organic soil!

[moses wellfleet]

After baking, why not just re-inoculate with EWC ACT and something like Great White? And use the Botanigard. Good luck. -granger

Well the idea is that we recycle the soil over many harvests, years if possible, to allow the soil biota to build up. I was on 7 months. So the root aphids have broken the cycle for me, and I have to start from scratch.

So I am searching techniques to control Root aphids that are compatible with recycled organic soil!

 

[Granger2]

Hmmm...I understand.
Nematodes
OGBioWar [changes/adds to herd]
Pyrethrum [w/o PBO]
Met 52 [changes/adds to herd]
Azasol
Safer's Insecticide Soap [followed by immediate
flush till runoff stops looking soapy, then start w/Root Stim]
Cedarcide PCO Choice for an area spray incl walls,
floors, doors, containers incl bottoms.
Good luck. -granger

 

[DoubleDDsNuggs]

what about SNS 203? I used it for fungus gnats recently when the beneficial bacteria wouldn't work. haven't seen one since application two days ago and it smells great. it says it works for root aphids too and it's active ingredients are clove and rosemary oils with a surfactant soap, lauric acid water as the other ingredients. I just started a recycled bed and this worked but alas, I do not have a way to check on my microherd. There's worms in there so making more beneficials isn't too big of worry as the product states that its food grade and pet safe.
http://sierranaturalscience.com/products/natural-pesticides/sns-203

 

[EclipseFour20]

An alternative to explore (the route I eventually took)...is a one time application of a synthetic (not organic) that has a very short half-life (little to zero residual in plant tissue and soil) that will annihilate Root Aphids (say bye bye)...without harming the existing microherd.

I viewed my "backslide to the dark-side" as a one-time issue and not a capitulation or surrender of all my other organic practices. In other words, I sinned Wednesday, went to confession Sunday, and Monday...all is better (or something like that...lol).

The science--

"A Hanford loamy sand, a Domino silt loam, and an Altamont clay loam were treated separately with three repeated applications (20 ppm) of the organophosphate insecticides, acephate (O,S-dimethyl acetylphosphoramidothioate) and Monitor (O,S-dimethyl phosphoramidothioate) over a 50-day time span. Population levels of actinomycetes, bacteria, and fungi were not substantially affected by the addition of either pesticide. Neither could a marked effect be shown upon ammonification, nitrification, sulfur oxidation, or respiration rates. Replica plating failed to isolate bacteria from soils that were adversely affected by either pesticide. It is concluded that neither acephate nor Monitor had any adverse effect upon soil microorganisms."

Source: https://www.agronomy.org/publications/jeq/abstracts/3/4/JEQ0030040327?access=0&view=pdf

"The effects of high (1000 ppm) and low (1 ppm) concentrations of acephate on the rate of growth and nutrient uptake by an aquatic bacterium (identified as Chromobacterium lividum) were investigated. This insecticide increased doubling time, decreased maximum cellular yield, and reduced cell size when C. lividum was grown in the presence of high acephate concentrations. Total [14C]glucose and 14C-labeled amino acids uptake rates were reduced by the high acephate concentration. The high acephate concentration did not affect active uptake of [14C]cycloleucine, a nonmetabolized amino acid analogue. Low concentration of acephate had little apparent influence upon these metabolic processes."

Source: http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/m84-055#.U9JG7Sj5OJ4

"Acephate is hydrolyzed to the degradates DMPT and RE 17,245.
Acephate does not undergo photolysis. Soil microorganisms rapidly degrade
acephate under both aerobic and anaerobic conditions. The products of this are
RE 18,420, methamidophos, and DMPT. Acephate’s metabolites are very
weakly adsorbed to the soil. They will be readily leached but will be quickly
degraded in the soil. Acephate will not volatilize in any significant quantity to
cause air contamination. Plants readily degrade acephate to methamidophos
and DMPT. Acephate’s rapid degradation makes it non-threatening to
groundwater or surface water."

Also, acephate has a soil half-life 0.5 to 3 days and is not a systemic (can be if foliar sprayed--but we are treating the soil with drenches).
Source: http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/emon/pubs/fatememo/acephate.pdf.

Just another option to consider, BTW, 3/4 pound of Acephate (sold as Orthene 97) is under $20 and effective dosage rates to send Root Aphids to "RA Hell" is a few grams per gallon of water; affordable, effective, no residual, and no harm to existing microherd--but it ain't "organic".

 

[DoubleDDsNuggs]

An alternative to explore (the route I eventually took)...is a one time application of a synthetic (not organic) that has a very short half-life (little to zero residual in plant tissue and soil) that will annihilate Root Aphids (say bye bye)...without harming the existing microherd.

I viewed my "backslide to the dark-side" as a one-time issue and not a capitulation or surrender of all my other organic practices. In other words, I sinned Wednesday, went to confession Sunday, and Monday...all is better (or something like that...lol).

The science--

"A Hanford loamy sand, a Domino silt loam, and an Altamont clay loam were treated separately with three repeated applications (20 ppm) of the organophosphate insecticides, acephate (O,S-dimethyl acetylphosphoramidothioate) and Monitor (O,S-dimethyl phosphoramidothioate) over a 50-day time span. Population levels of actinomycetes, bacteria, and fungi were not substantially affected by the addition of either pesticide. Neither could a marked effect be shown upon ammonification, nitrification, sulfur oxidation, or respiration rates. Replica plating failed to isolate bacteria from soils that were adversely affected by either pesticide. It is concluded that neither acephate nor Monitor had any adverse effect upon soil microorganisms."

Source: https://www.agronomy.org/publications/jeq/abstracts/3/4/JEQ0030040327?access=0&view=pdf

"The effects of high (1000 ppm) and low (1 ppm) concentrations of acephate on the rate of growth and nutrient uptake by an aquatic bacterium (identified as Chromobacterium lividum) were investigated. This insecticide increased doubling time, decreased maximum cellular yield, and reduced cell size when C. lividum was grown in the presence of high acephate concentrations. Total [14C]glucose and 14C-labeled amino acids uptake rates were reduced by the high acephate concentration. The high acephate concentration did not affect active uptake of [14C]cycloleucine, a nonmetabolized amino acid analogue. Low concentration of acephate had little apparent influence upon these metabolic processes."

Source: http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/m84-055#.U9JG7Sj5OJ4

"Acephate is hydrolyzed to the degradates DMPT and RE 17,245.
Acephate does not undergo photolysis. Soil microorganisms rapidly degrade
acephate under both aerobic and anaerobic conditions. The products of this are
RE 18,420, methamidophos, and DMPT. Acephate’s metabolites are very
weakly adsorbed to the soil. They will be readily leached but will be quickly
degraded in the soil. Acephate will not volatilize in any significant quantity to
cause air contamination. Plants readily degrade acephate to methamidophos
and DMPT. Acephate’s rapid degradation makes it non-threatening to
groundwater or surface water."

Also, acephate has a soil half-life 0.5 to 3 days and is not a systemic (can be if foliar sprayed--but we are treating the soil with drenches).
Source: http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/emon/pubs/fatememo/acephate.pdf.

Just another option to consider, BTW, 3/4 pound of Acephate (sold as Orthene 97) is under $20 and effective dosage rates to send Root Aphids to "RA Hell" is a few grams per gallon of water; affordable, effective, no residual, and no harm to existing microherd--but it ain't "organic".

so i went to try and order this as you said it's not systemic and is safe but Orthene 97 specifically states that the product is systemic and is not to be used on edibles. http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/orthene-97-spray-insecticide-p-3962.html

 

[Morcheeba*]

...Also, acephate has a soil half-life 0.5 to 3 days and is not a systemic (can be if foliar sprayed--but we are treating the soil with drenches).
Source: http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/emon/pubs/fatememo/acephate.pdf...

i got it wasnt systemic if used as soil drench only.


peace

 

[DoubleDDsNuggs]

one product stated that it takes longer to become systemic as a root drench but all info I'm finding says that it is systemic. here's an article about it I'm reading right now. http://realgrowers.com/blog/root-aphids-cannabis-and-chemicals/

it also says it is considered food safe but the conflicting information bothers me. I would think that if a product was safe to use on food crops, a manufacturer would love to advertise that.

 

[rasputin]

My Recycled soil is frequently colonized by root aphids. What can we do to keep them away?

Fixed that for you.

Careful with the generalizations, moses. Some of us have been both reusing soil and running no-till pots for many, many moons without ever encountering a root aphid.

Good luck with your pest problem. I would recommend EWC in every watering, amended into your medium, and perhaps also the addition of some beneficial nematodes. It worked for a buddy of mine who grows in coco, fwiw.

 

[moses wellfleet]

Fixed that for you.

Careful with the generalizations, moses. Some of us have been both reusing soil and running no-till pots for many, many moons without ever encountering a root aphid.

Good luck with your pest problem. I would recommend EWC in everwatering, amended into your medium, and perhaps also the addition of some beneficial nematodes. It worked for a buddy of mine who grows in coco, fwiw.

I never said all recycled soil Rasputin, its not only me with this problem!

And yes it was my own foolishness, accepting foreign clones!

 

[rasputin]

I never said you did, moses. Your opening line, though, was a blanket statement that might confuse the uninitiated. I just wanted it to be clear that there is no inherent connection between recycling soil and getting root aphids.

Bummer about the clones. Tough risk/reward scenario to balance out there. What clones were they? Did the other guy fail to mention they were dirty or did he not know he had aphids?

 

[moses wellfleet]

Ok I see your point, edited!

 

[moses wellfleet]

To update this thread, neither steinerama feltiae nor beauvaria bassiana seemed to offer any relief from symptoms.

Nor have I been able to visually detect any significant insect activity in the soil.

I am now wondering if my plants have a fungal disease?

 

[sisterwilliam]

I had the same problem 4 years ago. I became the unlucky sap that got root aphids from a couple of clones I bought from a local dispensary. Bad decision I know. Took me months to figure out what the hell was going on with my plants. I tried so many different organic products that failed miserably. Until I used a Pyrethrum Concentrate by the name of evergreen. Killed those little bastards dead with only 5ml per gallon. It's OMRI listed too.
Forgot to mention, I recycle my soil as well and did back then. The odd thing is the plants seem to love the stuff for whatever reason.

Here's a link if you're at all interested.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/320817973813?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

[frankenstein2]

Ok so I've been reading.......I have ogbiowar on the way in the mail. Already have a bag of ewc to make tea. Now here's the tricky part. I've been fighting Ra's for awhile now and had to resort to imid based products. I flower in 7 gal grow bags and the first day in flower everything that's transplanted gets a heavy soaking with "poison" in the water. Is it going to be pointless to use the ogbiowar because of the imid. I use it at less than full strength because I don't want anything left by the end of the 9 weeks. If it's pointless I will just wait until next run....

 

[sisterwilliam]

Ok so I've been reading.......I have ogbiowar on the way in the mail. Already have a bag of ewc to make tea. Now here's the tricky part. I've been fighting Ra's for awhile now and had to resort to imid based products. I flower in 7 gal grow bags and the first day in flower everything that's transplanted gets a heavy soaking with "poison" in the water. Is it going to be pointless to use the ogbiowar because of the imid. I use it at less than full strength because I don't want anything left by the end of the 9 weeks. If it's pointless I will just wait until next run....

Hey frankenstein, I also used caps bennies but before he was calling them ogbiowar. I think you can still get them on ebay for cheaper than what he sells them on his web site for. Link below.

Also, if you're going to make tea don't use cheap commercial castings like wiggle worm. The commercial stuff doesn't have much microbial life in it, see if you can find a local source that'll be fresh. Local farmers market may have them. Just my two cents.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/for-the-farm-only-/230761890387?pt=US_Hydroponics&var=&hash=item35ba7b0253

I didn't have any luck getting rid of the RA's with his stuff. But like I said in the post before, Evergreen kills those fuckers dead dead dead. I would dump a gallon in the pot and watch them come crawling out of the soil and smile as they faded to stillness. Sick I know, but as you know they are difficult little jerks. It only took a couple of weeks for me to totally get rid of them. I swear.
When I watered that stuff in an hour later all of the leaves would lift up and "pray to the lights". It was crazy. This summer I got a couple of clones from a dispensary that came with RA's on the roots. I dunked them in 10ml per gallon and let them sit submersed for a half an hour and never had a problem with them since.

But anyways, yeah my guess is that the Imid product and the bennies won't be very compatible with one another. But maybe Imid breaks down quickly in the soil...I don't know the half life of that stuff. Maybe the MSDS on it will say...Good luck...SW

 

[dabass2dark]

I use Neem Seed Meal from Down to Earth. In fact, I use the majority of my soil amendments and fertilizers from them in my organic soil recycling program.

Don't know if it works on root aphids, but it certainly doesn't work on thrips, but I got spinosad for them guys. I use it more as a food source for fungi and bacteria, and if it happens to repel some of the bad guys, bonus. It does have a strong odor, but once its mixed in you can't smell it. There is always a soil drench with Azamax too. Its the product that has the active ingredient from neem seed concentrated so its extra potent on the bugs.

Lady bugs when they are in season might be a good option too, if you don't mind finding them everywhere. But if a colony of lady bugs gets established and lays eggs, I heard the young ladies eat just about everything.

 

[sisterwilliam]

I use Neem Seed Meal from Down to Earth. In fact, I use the majority of my soil amendments and fertilizers from them in my organic soil recycling program.

Don't know if it works on root aphids, but it certainly doesn't work on thrips, but I got spinosad for them guys. I use it more as a food source for fungi and bacteria, and if it happens to repel some of the bad guys, bonus. It does have a strong odor, but once its mixed in you can't smell it. There is always a soil drench with Azamax too. Its the product that has the active ingredient from neem seed concentrated so its extra potent on the bugs.

Lady bugs when they are in season might be a good option too, if you don't mind finding them everywhere. But if a colony of lady bugs gets established and lays eggs, I heard the young ladies eat just about everything.

Good suggestion on the neem Seed meal. Seems like top dressing and making botanical teas would keep them at bay. My guess would be that it would do better than azamax. There's a lot more bug fighting compounds in neem than just azadactrin.