Malaysian airliner crashes in E. Ukraine

[RetroGrow]

Plenty of propaganda to go around. However, Russia is the master of propaganda. It has been a way of life for them for decades. Why anyone would believe anything out of Russia, with it's state controlled media, or out of the mouth of Putin, a KGB agent/killer, is a mystery to me. The man is a ruthless dictator.

 

[jump117]

.

 

[ElusiveQuark]

Shouldn't the flight recorder at least explain why they diverted and if there was another plane threatening them.

Others have posted that Russia is not to be trusted because they have long been known as a propaganda machine. I don't know anything about that firsthand. I see the spin happening re: this story right now and my take so far is that the US has said they have evidence answering many of our questions, yet have not produced any of it, and that casts doubt on anything they say. The World will only buy into the just trust me approach so many times. Especially after getting burned so often. "The sensitive nature re: the resolution of US spy capabilities" as justification for withholding evidence is bullshit. Us credibility is at stake here and I'm not seeing any action to bolster it.

 

[gaiusmarius]

when propaganda is all you get you have to see what makes more sense. whats more logical and who provides the best evidence in their propaganda message. but better yet would be to just wait and see what the international investigation says, plenty of time to start world war 3 when we have the investigation results. we shouldn't start a world war without proof, in my humble opinion.

 

[armedoldhippy]

The use of indiscriminate rockets in populated areas violates international humanitarian law, or the laws of war, and may amount to war crimes.
[youtubeif]yR6dX56amW4[/youtubeif]

gosh, that sounds exactly like.....what Hamas is trying to do against Israel. you think maybe the UN will indict them & try them in the Hague? (don't hold yer breath, LOL!)

 

[Elmer Bud]

Plenty of propaganda to go around. However, Russia is the master of propaganda. It has been a way of life for them for decades. Why anyone would believe anything out of Russia, with it's state controlled media, or out of the mouth of Putin, a KGB agent/killer, is a mystery to me. The man is a ruthless dictator.

G`day Retro

You don`t seem to be taking into account Gorbachev was KGB and George Bush senior was head of CIA .
I believe the CIA has caused more unrest and civilian deaths than the KGB .

Korea, Iran , Vietnam ,Laos , Cambodia ,Panama , Lebanon ,Tibet ,Nicaragua , Afghanistan ,Colombia, Somalia, Iraq , Syria, Egypt , Libya ,Haiti, El Salvador ...
I don`t see Russia causing regime change in sovereign countries ?

US citizens have a lot to apologize for .



Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[ElusiveQuark]

Given the big picture, both sides are clearly full of shit. The motivation for both sides is control of eastern Ukranian energy supply. All these other justifications by both sides for tension in the area are lies.

 

[JKD]

Gorbachev was not KGB.

In his early years the KGB supported Gorbachev.
Introducing 'Glasnost' weakened the KGB and cost their support for him - leading to a coup d'etat attempt on Gorbachev in 1991 by KGB Chairman Vladimir Kryuchkov which ultimately ended the KGB when it failed.

Incidentally Gorbachev and his business partner own 49% of: http://en.novayagazeta.ru/ which "is a Russian liberal opposition newspaper well known in its country for its critical and investigative coverage of Russian political and social affairs." - quote pulled from Wikipedia.
Four Novaya Gazeta journalists, including Yury Shchekochikhin and Anna Politkovskaya have been murdered since 2001.

 

[RetroGrow]

G`day Retro

You don`t seem to be taking into account Gorbachev was KGB and George Bush senior was head of CIA .
I believe the CIA has caused more unrest and civilian deaths than the KGB .

Korea, Iran , Vietnam ,Laos , Cambodia ,Panama , Lebanon ,Tibet ,Nicaragua , Afghanistan ,Colombia, Somalia, Iraq , Syria, Egypt , Libya ,Haiti, El Salvador ...
I don`t see Russia causing regime change in sovereign countries ?

US citizens have a lot to apologize for .



Thanks for sharin

EB .

Trust me, I have no love for the CIA, and I am well aware of Bushes regime as head of the CIA, which coincided with Bill Clintons tenure as Arkansas governor, when Bushe's CIA was running drugs into Clinton's Mena Arkansas, in exchange for weapons for the contras. It was called the Iran-Contra affair, and was responsible for flooding American inner cities with crack cocaine (think Los Angeles).
Here's a snippet:
"The Subcommittee found that the Contra drug links included:

Involvement in narcotics trafficking by individuals associated with the Contra movement.

Participation of narcotics traffickers in Contra supply operations through business relationships with Contra organizations.

Provision of assistance to the Contras by narcotics traffickers, including cash, weapons, planes, pilots, air supply services and other materials, on a voluntary basis by the traffickers.

Payments to drug traffickers by the US State Department of funds authorized by the Congress for humanitarian assistance to the Contras, in some cases after the traffickers had been indicted by federal law enforcement agencies on drug charges, in others while traffickers were under active investigation by these same agencies."

Senate Committee Report on Drugs,
Law Enforcement and Foreign Policy
chaired by Senator John F. Kerry".
Note John Kerry was chairman of that committee.
Read more about it here, if you are interested. You have to scroll down to the middle of the page to get bast the BS, but well worth the read:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/MENA/mena.php
As a citizen, I don't feel the need to apologize for crimes of our government which I and many others were opposed to. If it were up to me, these criminals in our government would hang.
In regards to CIA vs KGB causing deaths and unrest, I've no doubt both parties are culpable, however it is outside of our scope of knowledge and above our pay grade to know the details, since this stuff is mostly classified. What we do know comes from defectors.
Good read here. A bit lengthy, and source obviously biased, but still some prescient information:
"https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/kent-csi/vol19no3/html/v19i3a01p_0001.htm"
A fascinating article by a less biased party, PBS, can be found here. This is a really good read about the spooks among us and their impact on the world:
http://www.pbs.org/redfiles/kgb/debrief/k_brief_ter_knightley.htm

 

[resinryder]

US citizens have a lot to apologize for .

As a US citizen I don't owe you or anyone else a fucking apology.
You seem pretty sure that all of us are somehow culpable in world affairs. You want an apology? Get it from one of the sheeple that keep voting in republicans and democrats thinking either party is somehow going to fix things.
But as for me, nope, not even a twinge of regret or responsibility nor any need to even think about offering up an apology.

 

[Elmer Bud]

G`day JKD

Yes you are right Gorbachev not KGB .
I had thought that was correct for about 30 years .Head of Politburo yes . KGB no .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[gaiusmarius]

wow amazing, real reporters still exist!

wow amazing, real reporters still exist!

quite a telling back and forth between a real old school investigative journalist and the US state department press speaker. i have to say it's really rare that they ask difficult questions like this guy is doing, with follow ups etc. good for him showing some balls.

[YOUTUBEIF]5T-ou8bSryI[/YOUTUBEIF]

 

[D. B. Doober]

I found something about cosmetics again. I guess people were looting for cosmetics.

wwas like the first time she ever wore makeup and posted a picture of herself with it on. What a ghoul. They're poor though.


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/malaysia-airlines-flight-17-mascara-reportedly-used-from-crash-site/

 

[armedoldhippy]

I would like to post an open apology here to GaiusMarius. I inadvertently edited a post of his to the point that it appeared, in hindsight, to be HIS words rather than those of the post he quoted. I would not intentionally misrepresent anyones views, & appreciate this being brought to my attention. the post in question refers to indiscriminate use of unguided rockets on civilian populations. if you look at the two posts, you will see what I mean. I quoted ONLY the relevant sentence, and this had the unfortunate effect of putting his signature on anothers words. - armedoldhippy

 

[Hubbleman]

...

 

[armedoldhippy]

G`day Retro

You don`t seem to be taking into account Gorbachev was KGB and George Bush senior was head of CIA .
I believe the CIA has caused more unrest and civilian deaths than the KGB .

Korea, Iran , Vietnam ,Laos , Cambodia ,Panama , Lebanon ,Tibet ,Nicaragua , Afghanistan ,Colombia, Somalia, Iraq , Syria, Egypt , Libya ,Haiti, El Salvador ...
I don`t see Russia causing regime change in sovereign countries ? US citizens have a lot to apologize for .
Thanks for sharin
EB .

lessee here...China was also involved in Korea, Viet Nam, Tibet. Russia was also involved in Viet Nam, Afghanistan & sold weapons systems in many others. or do you only see blame for what the US does? if you don't see Russia involved in other countries, it is because you are willfully blind or ??? pick one or the other...
our imbecilic politicians dragged many of the SA countries into our ignorant "war on drugs", not the citizens. you are barking up the wrong tree with many of your assertions...

 

[gaiusmarius]

I would like to post an open apology here to GaiusMarius. I inadvertently edited a post of his to the point that it appeared, in hindsight, to be HIS words rather than those of the post he quoted. I would not intentionally misrepresent anyones views, & appreciate this being brought to my attention. the post in question refers to indiscriminate use of unguided rockets on civilian populations. if you look at the two posts, you will see what I mean. I quoted ONLY the relevant sentence, and this had the unfortunate effect of putting his signature on anothers words. - armedoldhippy

there was no need for an apology, but i thank you for it. i'm glad you saw my point about the misunderstanding that incomplete quote can create, thats rather more important.


back to the propaganda, lol

check this out for a press briefing with documentation...

http://rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-plane-russia-ukraine/

 

[jump117]

Korea, Iran , Vietnam ,Laos , Cambodia ,Panama , Lebanon ,Tibet ,Nicaragua , Afghanistan ,Colombia, Somalia, Iraq , Syria, Egypt , Libya ,Haiti, El Salvador ...

Thanks for sharin

EB .

+ Yugoslavia, thanks for Kosovo, then as now for ISIS, well done!

 

[Storm Shadow]

What do Kosovo, Korea, and Afghanistan all have in Common?
10+ TRILLION DOLLARS IN RARE EARTH ELEMENTS

Food for thought... China has 90% + of all of the worlds REE... they are very conservative about them and control the market very tight...

REE is crucial to all modern tech that we use

http://www.mining.com/largest-known-rare-earth-deposit-discovered-in-north-korea-86139/

Largest known rare earth deposit discovered in North Korea


My U.S Govt is all about jacking you for all your wealth ... str8 Mafia Gangsta

Just look at the founding of the Country.... Millions upon Millions of Native Americans killed...and the story we are all fed is Thanksgiving!! lol

 

[armedoldhippy]

What do Kosovo, Korea, and Afghanistan all have in Common?
10+ TRILLION DOLLARS IN RARE EARTH ELEMENTS

Food for thought... China has 90% + of all of the worlds REE... they are very conservative about them and control the market very tight...

REE is crucial to all modern tech that we use

http://www.mining.com/largest-known-rare-earth-deposit-discovered-in-north-korea-86139/

Largest known rare earth deposit discovered in North Korea


My U.S Govt is all about jacking you for all your wealth ... str8 Mafia Gangsta

Just look at the founding of the Country.... Millions upon Millions of Native Americans killed...and the story we are all fed is Thanksgiving!! lol

you must be very young. when I was in school, they taught us about the various Indian wars (as they were known then) the poor treatment of the native peoples by the Indian agencies, about the Cherokee Trail of Tears, etc. or were you stoned in class & not paying attention? I have seen estimates of the population & they run from 3 to 4 million on both N & S America total to over 100 million, which I seriously doubt. and diseases caught from the European colonists killed more, probably, than gunfire ever did. but I digress, continue ranting...