yeah, when the whole world except for you agree, it is obvious that everyone else is delusional...
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Malaysian airliner crashes in E. Ukraine
- Thread starter Storm Shadow
- Start date
yeah, when the whole world except for you agree, it is obvious that everyone else is delusional...
think about it, you are dispagaging an article that is just asking a bunch of questions, it's not trying to say who did it. in fact they are writing in a reasonable way, saying that we need to wait for the investigation. it's your sources that are jumping on 1 explanation, even though no investigation is done yet. so which sources seem more objective in your opinion? the ones talking about Putins missile on the day it happened, or the ones just reporting objectively and saying we have to wait and see? just use your intellect, what seems more objective to you.
do you even know how bad the mainstream media is faring, how low their ratings are? compared to which alternative media is booming, i wonder why? maybe people are sick of being told what to think and believe without evidence.
i do think SativeBreather has a very good point, when they all jump on the same boat and blame the same side, before an investigation has even got underway, you have to wonder. what's the rush to judgment? isn't it more logical to say lets wait and see?
do you even know how bad the mainstream media is faring, how low their ratings are? compared to which alternative media is booming, i wonder why? maybe people are sick of being told what to think and believe without evidence.
i do think SativeBreather has a very good point, when they all jump on the same boat and blame the same side, before an investigation has even got underway, you have to wonder. what's the rush to judgment? isn't it more logical to say lets wait and see?
i'm still reading a bunch of stuff about the rebels not cooperating etc, Obama again was going on about the OSCE not getting access. well here we have a different story. looks like the investigators them selves are quite happy with the cooperation from the rebels.
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I'm very calm, used to it, so no, no splittle flecked anything here.
And none of it untrue.
When your eyes are open you just see things differently, as they are. And once they're opened they cant be closed.
Malaysian Airlines has re-routed its commercial flight paths over Syria now that Ukranian airspace is closed... Other Airlines use an air corridor over Turkey between Syria and Azerbaijan.
http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/07/21/ukraine-crisis-malay-airline-idINKBN0FQ11R20140721
http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/07/21/ukraine-crisis-malay-airline-idINKBN0FQ11R20140721
Not letting the OSCE in was like 3 or 4 days ago. They have since been permitted limited access. Maybe more since then.
SB
I object to being told that I am asleep, brainwashed, ignorant etc because I have come to a different conclusion to the person delivering the invective.
Yeah, my eyes were "open" when I still believed any old shit that someone with a website or a snappy youtube video with "Lux Aeterna" for the music said. They are still open, but now I view the world through a sceptical lens, with a high UVB(Unbelievable Vacuous Bollocks) filter rating.
LOL deleting my last post.
Your sauce tastes of fail!
Go on then, enlighten me, which TOU did my post break.
You are not on the ball though, because you haven't changed SB's reply.....Pull yer socks up laddie, not doin it right.
EDIT. I jumped the gun with the snark. I'm leaving it up though because I said it and I don't like to look like I'm covering my tracks. My apologies.
was deleted because of the quoted post which it was responding to, which was insulting.
Fair enough then, GM my apologies for the snark.
domesticated? HAH! I'm as feral as they get, LOL!
it's amazing that just saying lets wait for the official investigation is seen as believing in conspiracy theories. to me it's just about staying objective. this event can lead to a world war, whats the rush to judgment about? sorry but i'm not keen on having another world war, specially not based on a lie. so lets really be sure first. i know we don't learn about it in school, but we don't need another Lusitania, or golf of Tonkin. like i say i'm shocked to see the US president reacting like the worst news pundit and basing his arguments on you tube videos and social media posts. where is the presidential dignity, why is he stoking the fires of war instead of letting an investigation take place before making his decision? am i really the only person that thinks this is worrying.
not at all. smaller squabbles than this stated WW1, & the way it ended & how the Allies treated Germany afterwards were the seeds that started WW2. I, for one, am not surprised at anything our idiot president says or does. the "rush to judgement" on here anyway, was partly a result of some folks yelling "false flag" at every intimation that it might be the rebels. if one side will not even consider evidence, you can blow off the other side trying to be objective. when & if they ever show radar & satellite footage showing where the missile came from, the world will know. BUT, it may never be made public because disclosing it would reveal one sides capabilities to the other. personally, I think there are several countries whose military could show you within a mile or so of where flight 370 went in at too....but they are NOT going to lay their cards on the table without a damn good reason. JMHO
Hello all,
Here you go.
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternativ...own-reveals-critical-information-2997992.html
minds_I
By the way, they are now saying that it was not a Buk missle, but rather a SA-11 surface-to-air missile. Supposedly, a Russian officer pushed the button that killed 298 innocent civilians.
July 22, 2014 | 9:21am
A Russian military officer personally pushed the launch button on
surface-to-air missiles that blew Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17
out of the sky, a senior Ukrainian official said Tuesday.
The stunning revelation was made by Vitaly Nayda, Ukraine’s
director of informational security, according to CNN.
Moscow-backed separatists in eastern Ukrainehad been blamed for the midair slaughter
that killed 298 people last Thursday.
US intelligence found that a 150-truck convoy — carrying rocket
launchers, tanks and other military hardware — had recently
rolled into rebel-held eastern Ukraine from southwest Russia.
The Russians also provided training in use of these air-defense
systems, according to US intelligence.
But Nayda’s revelation now brings the mass murder directly to
Moscow’s doorstep.
Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said Russia’s fingerprints have been
all over this tragedy from the start. And whether an itchy
Russian trigger finger actually pushed the button is almost
irrelevant, according to McCain, former ranking member of the
Senate Armed Services Committee.
“We know it was Russia that caused this whole turmoil,” McCain
told CNN Tuesday. “Whether it is a Russian [who pushed the
button] or not is really not too vital in deciding that Vladimir
Putin is a KGB colonel and international pariah.”
A train carrying most of the victims’ remains finally arrived in
the government-controlled Ukrainian city of Kharkiv on Tuesday.
Of the nearly 300 Flight MH17 victims, 198 were Dutch citizens,
and Amsterdam expects to have the remains back in the Netherlands
on Wednesday.
“It is our aim — and at the moment our expectation — that
sometime tomorrow, the first plane carrying victims will leave
for Eindhoven,” said Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte.
http://nypost.com/2014/07/22/russian-soldier-fired-missiles-at-mh17-ukrainian-official/
Later, the following story emerged:
"The United States hasn’t found proof of direct Russian government involvement in shooting down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 — but senior intelligence officials on Tuesday blamed Moscow for supplying the missile.
Officials said Russia “created the conditions” that led to the deadly attack by arming the Ukrainian rebels suspected of firing the SA-11 surface-to-air missile that blew the Boeing 777 out of the sky on Thursday.
One official also said the passenger plane was most likely shot down “by mistake” — killing all 298 people aboard and sparking an ongoing crisis.
The officials said they didn’t know if any Russians were present when the weapon was fired, or who pushed the button.
“We don’t know a name, we don’t know a rank and we’re not even 100 percent sure of a nationality,” one official said.
“There is not going to be a Perry Mason moment here.”
Earlier in the day, a Ukrainian official said the missile was “absolutely” fired by a Russian.
Vitaly Nayda, Ukraine’s director of informational security, told CNN that his government “taped conversations” of a Russian officer with his office in Moscow “several minutes before the missile was launched.”
“They knew the plane was coming with constant speed, in constant direction,” Nayda said.
Meanwhile, Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott said the aircraft’s wreckage had been tampered with “on an industrial scale,” noting darkly, “After the crime, comes the coverup.”
Col. Andriy Lysenko of the Ukrainian National Security and Defense Council also alleged that Russian military operatives had “worked at the crash site under the guise of civilians.”
European monitors saw men in uniforms use power tools to chop up remnants of the passenger plane, a spokesman for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe said.
“The rear part of the aircraft, one of the biggest intact pieces, has definitely been hacked into,” OSCE spokesman Michael Bociurkiw said.
He added that “a diesel-powered saw” was used to cut apart the cockpit, possibly in a legitimate effort to recover bodies.
Also Tuesday, a Dutch official questioned if all 282 bodies purportedly turned over by rebels arrived by train in the government-controlled Ukrainian city of Kharkiv.
Jan Tuinder, head of a forensics body-recovery team, said investigators would return to the crash scene to search for more remains, the BBC reported.
http://nypost.com/2014/07/22/us-no-evidence-of-direct-link-to-russia-in-mh17-attack/
One thing not in dispute: Ukranian military are destroying/tampering with evidence.
Story continues to change/evolve......
July 22, 2014 | 9:21am
A Russian military officer personally pushed the launch button on
surface-to-air missiles that blew Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17
out of the sky, a senior Ukrainian official said Tuesday.
The stunning revelation was made by Vitaly Nayda, Ukraine’s
director of informational security, according to CNN.
Moscow-backed separatists in eastern Ukrainehad been blamed for the midair slaughter
that killed 298 people last Thursday.
US intelligence found that a 150-truck convoy — carrying rocket
launchers, tanks and other military hardware — had recently
rolled into rebel-held eastern Ukraine from southwest Russia.
The Russians also provided training in use of these air-defense
systems, according to US intelligence.
But Nayda’s revelation now brings the mass murder directly to
Moscow’s doorstep.
Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said Russia’s fingerprints have been
all over this tragedy from the start. And whether an itchy
Russian trigger finger actually pushed the button is almost
irrelevant, according to McCain, former ranking member of the
Senate Armed Services Committee.
“We know it was Russia that caused this whole turmoil,” McCain
told CNN Tuesday. “Whether it is a Russian [who pushed the
button] or not is really not too vital in deciding that Vladimir
Putin is a KGB colonel and international pariah.”
A train carrying most of the victims’ remains finally arrived in
the government-controlled Ukrainian city of Kharkiv on Tuesday.
Of the nearly 300 Flight MH17 victims, 198 were Dutch citizens,
and Amsterdam expects to have the remains back in the Netherlands
on Wednesday.
“It is our aim — and at the moment our expectation — that
sometime tomorrow, the first plane carrying victims will leave
for Eindhoven,” said Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte.
http://nypost.com/2014/07/22/russian-soldier-fired-missiles-at-mh17-ukrainian-official/
Later, the following story emerged:
"The United States hasn’t found proof of direct Russian government involvement in shooting down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 — but senior intelligence officials on Tuesday blamed Moscow for supplying the missile.
Officials said Russia “created the conditions” that led to the deadly attack by arming the Ukrainian rebels suspected of firing the SA-11 surface-to-air missile that blew the Boeing 777 out of the sky on Thursday.
One official also said the passenger plane was most likely shot down “by mistake” — killing all 298 people aboard and sparking an ongoing crisis.
The officials said they didn’t know if any Russians were present when the weapon was fired, or who pushed the button.
“We don’t know a name, we don’t know a rank and we’re not even 100 percent sure of a nationality,” one official said.
“There is not going to be a Perry Mason moment here.”
Earlier in the day, a Ukrainian official said the missile was “absolutely” fired by a Russian.
Vitaly Nayda, Ukraine’s director of informational security, told CNN that his government “taped conversations” of a Russian officer with his office in Moscow “several minutes before the missile was launched.”
“They knew the plane was coming with constant speed, in constant direction,” Nayda said.
Meanwhile, Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott said the aircraft’s wreckage had been tampered with “on an industrial scale,” noting darkly, “After the crime, comes the coverup.”
Col. Andriy Lysenko of the Ukrainian National Security and Defense Council also alleged that Russian military operatives had “worked at the crash site under the guise of civilians.”
European monitors saw men in uniforms use power tools to chop up remnants of the passenger plane, a spokesman for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe said.
“The rear part of the aircraft, one of the biggest intact pieces, has definitely been hacked into,” OSCE spokesman Michael Bociurkiw said.
He added that “a diesel-powered saw” was used to cut apart the cockpit, possibly in a legitimate effort to recover bodies.
Also Tuesday, a Dutch official questioned if all 282 bodies purportedly turned over by rebels arrived by train in the government-controlled Ukrainian city of Kharkiv.
Jan Tuinder, head of a forensics body-recovery team, said investigators would return to the crash scene to search for more remains, the BBC reported.
http://nypost.com/2014/07/22/us-no-evidence-of-direct-link-to-russia-in-mh17-attack/
One thing not in dispute: Ukranian military are destroying/tampering with evidence.
Story continues to change/evolve......
Armedoldhippy: Yes there is. I also posted the alternative routes other airlines are flying which bypass Syria. That Malaysian Airlines would fly over another war zone when an alternative route is so close by was so dumbfounding that I thought I would share the incredulity.
I share it with you, bro. I guess they gotta show a profit somehow after losing two multi-million dollar jets & nearly 600 passengers whose families are going to sue them back into the stone age. I'm still looking for published radar tracking/satellite pix of the missile launch. it may take weeks/months before they figure out how to do it & not reveal the sensitivity /resolution of the cameras involved. giving up info like that will not bring any passengers back to life & could bite you in the ass in the future if you were watching for missiles headed YOUR direction, something that both Russia & the US worry about.
only thing I have found is butt-bite Biden saying they came from rebel-held territory & conspiracy nuts on alt news sources claiming that they have a un-named source who knows a guy that blah blah blah. still no film footage up that I have seen.
man the nyt articles just scream speculative bs. first the black boxes were being sent to moscow, then some 30 bodies were being sent to Moscow, then investigators were kept away, but they say they weren't, they show footage of a rebel picking up a teddy and show a pic saying hes looting, then they show a pic of someone opening luggage, again a looter, turns out it was an investigator looking for id documents, then they claim certain missiles were smuggled back to Russia, when it turns out they were filmed in a city that under government control in Ukraine, they claim a recording between rebels proves it, then we find out the recording is manipulated and pieces together from past radio communications after knocking down the military planes. there comes a point where you have to ask yourself if you really want to take such people at their word.
Mccain is te biggest war monger out there, he hates Putin with a personal passion. he's also show such terrible judgment in the past that him saying it is so, should sow more doubt, lol.
btw Retro, the sa11 is the nato name for the buk if im not mistaken.
Mccain is te biggest war monger out there, he hates Putin with a personal passion. he's also show such terrible judgment in the past that him saying it is so, should sow more doubt, lol.
btw Retro, the sa11 is the nato name for the buk if im not mistaken.
some more thoughts on all this
some more thoughts on all this
the Russians actually showed some satellite images showing the buk missile system belonging to Ukraine deployed in good positions to do the deed, it also shows the storage area where they are normally kept and how one unit disappears from the parking lot a short while before the event. one should also ask one self, if the missile system in the film about the supposed border crossing of the buk system, is not a Russian buk system, or on Russian territory, but actually in government held territory in Ukraine, then why oh why is there 1 missile missing from that government controlled system? this was being asked when it was thought to be a Russian system, but now we now it was Ukrainian, no one is interested what happened to the missile thats missing?
link to the Russian preliminary investigation, very important to read, you do not know the Russian position if you have not read this. what the media claims as the Russian position is just more made up bs. the Russians have not actually got a position or a take yet.
http://themillenniumreport.com/2014...n-close-approach-to-mh17-before-crash-moscow/
one thing no one has mentioned yet, is the war games that were being held on the black sea involving the Ukrainian military. these exercises finished on the day the plane was shot down. do you know what was the purpose officially of this war exercise? well it was about watching and controlling international civilian passenger jets. i don't remember the exact designation, but the name says it all.
so despite all this they have not shown one image to back up their speculations. they had a satellite pointed right at the event, but not one pic has been forthcoming, why?
if you think about it the only reason to rush to judgment is to try and influence public opinion. in the old days presidents used to say things like; this is a terrible tragedy and we must find out exactly what happened, we must make sure not react to speculation and accusations and wait for the evidence to tell the story. now it's like, what happened, oh the Russians did it believe me i know, can't show you any proof, but i know its so, i have a mountain of evidence, so i have to be right, but i can't show you evidence as it's all in the news and social media anyway, who needs to investigate and show proof, we know.......LMAO.
but some how or other, people are swallowing this.
and even still i'm ready to believe it was the Russians or the rebels, but i'd like to see some proof that stands up to closer examination. what a terrible thing to ask i know.
some more thoughts on all this
the Russians actually showed some satellite images showing the buk missile system belonging to Ukraine deployed in good positions to do the deed, it also shows the storage area where they are normally kept and how one unit disappears from the parking lot a short while before the event. one should also ask one self, if the missile system in the film about the supposed border crossing of the buk system, is not a Russian buk system, or on Russian territory, but actually in government held territory in Ukraine, then why oh why is there 1 missile missing from that government controlled system? this was being asked when it was thought to be a Russian system, but now we now it was Ukrainian, no one is interested what happened to the missile thats missing?
link to the Russian preliminary investigation, very important to read, you do not know the Russian position if you have not read this. what the media claims as the Russian position is just more made up bs. the Russians have not actually got a position or a take yet.
http://themillenniumreport.com/2014...n-close-approach-to-mh17-before-crash-moscow/
one thing no one has mentioned yet, is the war games that were being held on the black sea involving the Ukrainian military. these exercises finished on the day the plane was shot down. do you know what was the purpose officially of this war exercise? well it was about watching and controlling international civilian passenger jets. i don't remember the exact designation, but the name says it all.
so despite all this they have not shown one image to back up their speculations. they had a satellite pointed right at the event, but not one pic has been forthcoming, why?
if you think about it the only reason to rush to judgment is to try and influence public opinion. in the old days presidents used to say things like; this is a terrible tragedy and we must find out exactly what happened, we must make sure not react to speculation and accusations and wait for the evidence to tell the story. now it's like, what happened, oh the Russians did it believe me i know, can't show you any proof, but i know its so, i have a mountain of evidence, so i have to be right, but i can't show you evidence as it's all in the news and social media anyway, who needs to investigate and show proof, we know.......LMAO.
but some how or other, people are swallowing this.
and even still i'm ready to believe it was the Russians or the rebels, but i'd like to see some proof that stands up to closer examination. what a terrible thing to ask i know.
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