Dud Identification Collective Knowledge.

[siftedunity]

yeah i thought people were talking about police lol. anyways...

mmm a lot of this duding has been experienced after a broad mite invasion. perhaps they are carriers for whatever is causing this problem. im tempted to only grow from seed from now on.

 

[high life 45]

Props to wt215 for getting those pics up!!!

Your posts suggest duds come from bugs and genetic material at the same time...

This thread should be "I just got a plant I really wanted from a questionable source and now I'm not happy with the way it's been growing and I haven't spent enough time with it to acclimate it to my set up yet"

True I got the glue at the cup, but I had a line on it from someone locally beforehand. Maybe I should have waited for it locally but I decided to go to take a patient of mine with cancer all over and to support Josey and SL's effort to enter into the cup and to help recoup booth fees. I am pretty sure theres even a post back of mine in a thread here that says exactly that.

I havent blamed anyone or complained about the issue with the cuts in any thread. Just trying to learn here.

Dj Short

Smoke weed errday

Old dudes lungs have cancer and arent in the best shape so I went around "priming" the dabber for him all day. We had a blast and the HTCUP staff was very nice to us and even allowed us to park in the vendors parking which is good cuz old dude can barely walk.

considering compassion, or concerned with competition?


I dont know where the duds come from, and I havent been able to identify in any of the other photos if someone else has fan leafs growing out of fan leaves like my supposed "dud"

I think bugs, genetic material or fungal/bacterial are all logical candidates for a cause of duds. Thats right, It could come from anywhere. I just want to help other folks identify the growth that may be a telltale sign of a crappy harvest to be.

As of right now IMO "dud" is simply a terminology for an under performing cut. The under performance could be for a myriad of reasons.

Perhaps it truly is "user error" time will tell

Believe it or not Jackmayoffer has had experience with hybrid strains going weird on him and he has mentioned it in his thread. It wasnt performing as it had been and im pretty sure he pulled it from his rotation for a few rounds. Not saying its a dud, but even the pros run into anomalies.

White Fire#3 this girl keeps wanting to turn into the White some runs shes OG other runs she is the White she drives me nuts and for this reason im putting her away and giving her a break,..JACK

I have some of the "duded' material that I am giving to another member to get tested. Whatever the results end up being, I will let everyone know here. I will be happy to have had it identified, so anyone with the issue can treat for it, and other gardeners may learn about preventative practices and integrate them into their garden chores

I started this thread to educate and become educated about the issue as stated in the end of the thread title "Collective Knowledge"

Maybe the genetics do need to acclimate, but backyards favorite "blue dream" also from standard seeds booth hasnt shown any strange characteristics, Or signs of fungal infection/disease.

Just trying to get to the bottom of this.

 

[high life 45]

I appreciate what PO has done for the game.

Keeping lazy growers and people who want something for nothing down deserves a donation from all serious growers who are about their shit!

had no problems in the garden, then got clones from PO, next thing you know had to throw everything away

so IMHO, the only thing that changed was clones from PO, and then FML

got rid of everything and no more problems, so yes, PO hands out plant aids FACT

Yeah exactly what I was talking about, that sux DIDM,

 

[cyat]

215 nailed half of it... had the exact same symptoms w other strains.....

the other duds are coming from something else , prob broadmites, these ones for me have twisting deformed leaves and small nugs but resinous and stinky, had this on my gg, which I got from someone else not the cup..

this particular prob spread to most of my other plants.. symptoms in veg are flat leaves twisting hard right or left.. pale growth... and new growth tips curling down hard

the cure for me has been .. nuke em at 1 oz a gallon, alternating with neem 2 tsp a gal( not pure like dynagrow, but the one with emulsifier added ) everyday...

 

[high life 45]

215 nailed half of it... had the exact same symptoms w other strains.....

the other duds are coming from something else , prob broadmites, these ones for me have twisting deformed leaves and small nugs but resinous and stinky, had this on my gg, which I got from someone else not the cup..

this particular prob spread to most of my other plants.. symptoms in veg are flat leaves twisting hard right or left.. pale growth... and new growth tips curling down hard

the cure for me has been .. nuke em at 1 oz a gallon, alternating with neem 2 tsp a gal( not pure like dynagrow, but the one with emulsifier added ) everyday...

I have been hearing more and more good things about nuke em, was turned off by the name at first tho.

 

[gaiusmarius]

man oh man, does this mean that one could be growing a duded plant out and just get less taste and resin but still a good yield and decent high? or is the high screwed up too?

 

[stasis]

Gaius, ya' won't get any Yield. That is the worst part of the attack.

Broad Mites, as well as other Tarsoneimids, such as Cyclamen and Russet Mites, are the cause of "Duds." Let the Blustering cease.

I got 'em again in this other Med State as well as CA. So, Been through the war. Jeesh.

I ALMOST gave up. But, after talking at length with the ONE realist that I saved from complete Ruin - We read all the threads, the University info and Web Info we could find on these pests and treatments. Then We decided to FIGHT 'em, so that We'd come out on top - since People were so "In Denial around Here.".

Although winning the battle NOW, I am still embroiled. 'Cause as I said before, I act preventatively, and assume the BM's are still present. They are still there, but less and less with each succeeding generation. Can't get in there and spray the 2 heinous compounds that I spray while in the Flowering Stage, due to their Half-Lives, so Ya gotta address it in Veg..

PICTURED: Triple Diesel Bud harvested at 66 days - from a Clone that HAD BM's... Key Word: Had.

Follow the directions of some of the People Who Have Gone To Battle on the BROAD MITES Thread (myself, retrogrow, many others), filter it all through Your belief system,
Be "On It," and You're done. Duds are not on a per-strain basis..!!!! Although, Like Spider Mites, certain strains seem to be more attractive than others to the Bugs..

The Plushberry I got in clone and started with the 3D and 40 seeds from Seedbay about 8 months ago was infested, thus I tossed 'em all - but the 5 "saved" 3D plants, which I based my present grow on. Took clones, flowered Four got a pound and a half, kept one plant for a Mom. Now, I am 2/3's done flowering the next 30, with 30 more in teen veg stage. All Trip-D, all looking good. Culled the plants that showed the disease caused by the Bugs' saliva. Spray every 8-9 days or so, alternating the 2 miticides, until Flowering Stage.

Although it is VERY hard to do, One Must Kill the Bugs, or Start Over from seed. Get a Scope. Get through this scourge.

Diligence, Preventative treatments will clean up the room.

I have stopped trying to educate People Here about it. They just look at Me like I'm speaking Icelandic about UFO's, and blame it on something unrelated.
Fine, Just makes My work look better. They lose the frost on the buds, and grow multiple generations of infested crops. Wondering why it came out so dry and lifeless... Hmmmm...

I believe the BM's will take over the Cannabis Scene, and only those who paid REAL attention will flourish.

My 2c. Not caring about the Haters. Science is all that matters.

 

[siftedunity]

I pretty much only flower clones. And I can say consistently that every clone should produce the same bud. Maybe you get the odd one which yieldes less or isnt quite as good as the others perhaps not in direct enough light. Or maybe a weaker clone but ive never had a dud fro a healthy mother plant. The only duds ive seen were after contact with broad mites.

 

[high life 45]

As an effort to stop the spreading of Ganaj Herpes, come identify and share pic of your duds here.

Personally I think duds come from bms, but lets not get to worked up about that all yet, lets identify duds first.
Cmon Buds, show us your DUDs!

This has taken over as the silliest thread on IC. Broad Mites are the cause. Period. Court Denial, I don't care.. Although winning the battle, I am still embroiled, 'cause as I said before, I act preventatively, and assume they are still there. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Science is all that matters. [/FONT]

Yeah, if you could go ahead and read the first post yeah, thatd be great.....

jk jk, I think I clearly agree with you on the very first post of the thread, but this is about identifying "dud" growth.
Lets not get too worked up about all that yet, you know the bm stuff, like you said there is an entire thread on that.

In that thread there arent any pictures like the one I posted, not in the nearly 200 pages.

This is a place for people to identify the dud growth. I didnt find any good dud pics last time I checked the bm thread. Its primarily a bunch of arguing over which pesticides to use and in what combination.

Dud growth can happen after the bms are gone according to some members of the church of broadmites.

The "toxins in their saliva is left behind in the plant tissue" as some might preach.


Sam asked a great question IIRC,
"What is the name of the toxin in broad mites saliva?" That also hasnt been answered in the big old bm thread, and it probably never will seeing as the thread is locked. If we give this silly thread some more time, we may just find out.

"I'll take 'Science stuff' and 'how much does it really matter to you?' for $300"


As for me, the strange growth which I am calling "dud" for the time being is actually, truly and honestly only occurring on one strain. If it wasnt then I would surely have more photos of "dud" growth. So, while Im not preaching that is a on a per strain basis, it is only on my GG4 from the cup. . . not even the plant thats touching the gg4 in the same container is showing the weird growth.

If you think bms are the only cause....
What about all the photos whatthe215 posted?
Were the bms "selective" in which plants they wanted to "dud" or were certain plants simply more infected?
Im seeing side by side plants with drastic differences.

everyone take a puff man

 

[Backyard Farmer]

HL45 , the quote from Jack to me reads like he's unhappy with the consistency of the White Fire #3 , not that it's a "dud" ...LOL

 

[high life 45]

Yes, it sounds more like an unstable hybrid.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

Mendo Purps and countless other strains at first unexplainably have come out different from run to run..does that mean it's a dud? No. it means that the environment and genotype combined in a specific way to create the phenotype expressed in that particular round. Indoor environments are great for bringing out different phenotypic expressions inside the same genotype because you can control the climate...as you know, outdoors you're at the mercy of your climate zone...Hopefully 14 or close to it...But not to get too tangential ...

The best tool in the grow is a note book and calendar , write down what you do , plan to do, and what its perceived effect was ...also log the environmental parameters for inside and out.

If you're having root disease issues...MycoStop WP and PreStop from Verdera will knock out just about all of them, I've also tried Actinovate..but much prefer the Verdera products...Also Tainio Technology's Spectrum , BioGenesis I , MycoGenesis , and PepZyme C will really help to establish a healthy biological population in your grow.

Big up and best of luck...

 

[Hammerhead]

HL45 asked me to take some pics of the leaf surface from my GG#4. My scope was purchased for Biological life for my compost tea mixes. This is the scope I have
http://www.amscope.com/b120c.html#load.. I made a mistake its not a 12mp its a 10mp cam attached...

The 1st pic 100x the only thing I don't know what it is. Looks like a spore or dieing THC glad?

These 2 pics 40x are from the surface..There is nothing abnormal in these 2.

This pic 100x is from some type of physical or Environmental damage. if you look at this without a scope your 1st thought would be thrip damage. The lower right I have found them on every strain I have inspected. It has roots coming off of it part of the leaf possibly a THC glad? The specs to the top left are soil/coco particles. I looked at them under high mag. Taking pics at such high mag is imposable without a isolation table

Hope this helps..I have not experienced duds, Nor have I had BM. I have encounter spider mites witch seem tame compared the BM.
Hope this is helpful..

 

[EclipseFour20]

Well...if you can't infect a healthy plant (make a healthy plant become a dud) then it probably is not contagious.

Which means it is either cultivator error (environment, nutrition, fertility, etc) or genetic issue (phenotype expression, recessive trait becoming dominant, etc).

I am leaning towards the latter (genetic issue caused by unknown reasons).

 

[cyat]

Well...if you can't infect a healthy plant (make a healthy plant become a dud) then it probably is not contagious.

Which means it is either cultivator error (environment, nutrition, fertility, etc) or genetic issue (phenotype expression, recessive trait becoming dominant, etc).

I am leaning towards the latter (genetic issue caused by unknown reasons).

it spreads

 

[EclipseFour20]

it spreads

How? Is it like TMV (human/plant contact)...or like PM (combination of plant health and environment)...or like Phytophthora root rot (usually caused by infected soil)...or like pathogens (fungal, bacteria, etc).....or like _________________?

Any idea "how it spreads"?

 

[stasis]

You guys are killing Me.

 

[whatthe215]

it's most definitely contagious. i think gnats and other flying root zone pests move it from plant to plant.

like the amateur i am, i treated but didn't quarantine my GG4s from the cup. it spread to a bunch of White Fire cuts, 25% of em are duds now. other strains in the same room haven't been affected despite a (un)healthy gnat population. i'm guessing certain strains are more susceptible.

now that i've taken my samples for the laboratory, i culled a shit ton of plants and i'm treating with every biological fungicide control i can find.

i'm starting with the products Backyard Farmer mentioned. MycoStop WP and PreStop from Verdera.

Obsoul33t is trying calcium phosphites on the crown of the sick plants at the recommendation of an agricultural professional.

 

[gaiusmarius]

Gaius, ya' won't get any Yield. That is the worst part of the attack.
........
Any idea "how it spreads"?

so apart from yield and lack of smell and trichomes, lol, how is the taste and smell? also shit? basically is there anyway you can be growing duds without realizing it? say a really super potent strain is just a normal quality strain when a dd, or will it be a shit quality?

as for the spreading, did you see that pic that could have come from a horror movie with the broadmites crawling all over the legs and other appendages of the white fly? i imagine it works something like that?

 

[whatthe215]

as for the spreading, did you see that pic that could have come from a horror movie with the broadmites crawling all over the legs and other appendages of the white fly? i imagine it works something like that?

gnat bites into infected root, get's the pathogen all over it and then goes to feed on a different plants' roots and it rubs off.

could also happen when a tray's drain clogs a bit and the table floods... spreading the pathogen all around to plants sitting in the runoff.