^^ Great post, Coba.
dank.Frank
dank.Frank
Tutorial Organics for Beginners
- Thread starter BurnOne
- Start date
agreed with frank.
I have a quick question about re-amending recycled soil.
I have 2 5gallon buckets mostly full (~9 gallons) of used ocean forest. Half of it was straight out of the bag used for about 1.5-2 months and plants were healthy when chopped (males). The other half was used for a full flower run and I think I added a little coco and perlite, extra ewc and maybe some high p guano to that one not sure it has been quite a while.
Anyway I usually just buy a 1.5cu ft bag of FFOF for $20 and just toss it into outdoor beds/planters once I use it. A bag lasts me 1-2 runs depending on number of plants and size of grow bags (micro grow).
I could keep getting a $20 bag of fresh FFOF every 1-2 grows but seems about half the time lately they have been coming amended with root aphids for free.
I can get a bag of amendments for a 1.5 cu ft bag of soil for $18.60 shipped and the bag includes:
"Super Soil Amendment for 1 Large Bag (1.5 cf) of Soil Mix
Approximately 3 lbs of organic fertilizer soil amendment, with the following ingredients:
10 oz Bat Guano (1-12-1)
10 oz Bone Meal (1-15-0)
10 oz Blood Meal (13-0-0)
8 oz Potassium Sulphate - Potash (0-0-50)
1 cup Kelp Meal
2 tbsp Epsom Salt – Magnesium Sulphate
2 tbsp Azomite
2 tbsp Endo Mycorrhizal Fungi (134 spores/g)
2 tbsp Dolomite Lime
2 tsp Granulated Humic Acid
(add to the mix ~6lbs EWC mentioned below, which I have about that much EWC left hanging around)
This mix should be combined with 1 large bag (1.5 cf) of high quality organic potting soil mix and approximately 6 lbs of organic earthworm castings to create a long lasting “super soil” that will take your vegetables, flowers or herbs through the vegetative and blooming stages. Best if pre-mixed with water at least one month ahead of planting to allow the fungi to become established in the soil and the fertilizers to begin to break down. Make sure to keep moist until planting. Note this mix is too hot for seedlings, as it will burn the roots. You can transplant seedlings after a good root system has already been developed, or you may place the amended super soil in the bottom of the planter, and place your seedling in a layer of un-amended soil at the top."
Do you guys think this amendment mix would do me well if I mix it with the used FFOF and water with a compost tea and keep moist/turned for about 6-8 weeks until I need it for the next batch? It is roughly the cost of a new bag of FFOF which may or may not come with pests included so I am thinking I might like the option of trying a recycled amended soil mix, which I have been wanting to do for some time now anyway.
I guess I am just looking for a go ahead or not to purchase the amendment mix and start composting it. But if its not a good mix I might pass, it would cost me a lot more to buy amendments separately, though I would get more of each but I would use so little of each it might not be cost effective in my situation to build my own amendment mix.
Just dont want to buy it if its got bad ratios of amendments or anything that stands out as bad to you guys more experienced in re-amending soils.
I have 2 5gallon buckets mostly full (~9 gallons) of used ocean forest. Half of it was straight out of the bag used for about 1.5-2 months and plants were healthy when chopped (males). The other half was used for a full flower run and I think I added a little coco and perlite, extra ewc and maybe some high p guano to that one not sure it has been quite a while.
Anyway I usually just buy a 1.5cu ft bag of FFOF for $20 and just toss it into outdoor beds/planters once I use it. A bag lasts me 1-2 runs depending on number of plants and size of grow bags (micro grow).
I could keep getting a $20 bag of fresh FFOF every 1-2 grows but seems about half the time lately they have been coming amended with root aphids for free.
I can get a bag of amendments for a 1.5 cu ft bag of soil for $18.60 shipped and the bag includes:
"Super Soil Amendment for 1 Large Bag (1.5 cf) of Soil Mix
Approximately 3 lbs of organic fertilizer soil amendment, with the following ingredients:
10 oz Bat Guano (1-12-1)
10 oz Bone Meal (1-15-0)
10 oz Blood Meal (13-0-0)
8 oz Potassium Sulphate - Potash (0-0-50)
1 cup Kelp Meal
2 tbsp Epsom Salt – Magnesium Sulphate
2 tbsp Azomite
2 tbsp Endo Mycorrhizal Fungi (134 spores/g)
2 tbsp Dolomite Lime
2 tsp Granulated Humic Acid
(add to the mix ~6lbs EWC mentioned below, which I have about that much EWC left hanging around)
This mix should be combined with 1 large bag (1.5 cf) of high quality organic potting soil mix and approximately 6 lbs of organic earthworm castings to create a long lasting “super soil” that will take your vegetables, flowers or herbs through the vegetative and blooming stages. Best if pre-mixed with water at least one month ahead of planting to allow the fungi to become established in the soil and the fertilizers to begin to break down. Make sure to keep moist until planting. Note this mix is too hot for seedlings, as it will burn the roots. You can transplant seedlings after a good root system has already been developed, or you may place the amended super soil in the bottom of the planter, and place your seedling in a layer of un-amended soil at the top."
Do you guys think this amendment mix would do me well if I mix it with the used FFOF and water with a compost tea and keep moist/turned for about 6-8 weeks until I need it for the next batch? It is roughly the cost of a new bag of FFOF which may or may not come with pests included so I am thinking I might like the option of trying a recycled amended soil mix, which I have been wanting to do for some time now anyway.
I guess I am just looking for a go ahead or not to purchase the amendment mix and start composting it. But if its not a good mix I might pass, it would cost me a lot more to buy amendments separately, though I would get more of each but I would use so little of each it might not be cost effective in my situation to build my own amendment mix.
Just dont want to buy it if its got bad ratios of amendments or anything that stands out as bad to you guys more experienced in re-amending soils.
No one has given any input yet but Im thinking Im probably not going to get this amendment mix.
Ive got some high p guano and epsom salt (not sure I would use either one in my mix but have them). I also have BioAg granulated humic already, only things the mix has that I would need is Bone, Blood, Kelp, Azomite, and myco (I can easily add that). The amount Azomite in the amendment mix is probably negligible only 2 tbsp per 1.5+ cu ft when mixed.
I also have some powdered crab shell I just made in my Vitamix with shells from crab we ate recently, not sure if I should use it and how much if so.
I can get bone and blood at home depot and I think I could order kelp and azomite too from them but not sure what I want to use in my mix. I have to see what all I can get at decent prices to keep my cost. I was thinking about using fish bone meal, is it better than bone meal or is it the same thing?
Anyone have ideas of what I should get for my own mix, I saw recently someone recommending karanja meal rather than the bone or blood (not sure which one it was). I would be interested in using plant sources for nutrition in the soil mix over the use of animal blood and bone when possible while still getting good results.
Looks like I got some more research to do but need to figure it out quickly in order to get everything I need and start it composting so its ready for next run.
I like fish meal and fish bone meal over bone and blood meal. The differences is that you may get a higher mercury count (and possibly low levels of radiation if sourced from the Pacific, thanks Fukushima) and a few other potentialities, but if you've ever looked into industrial slaughterhouses you'd never buy blood and bone meal again. I'd much rather substitute the fish by product for the cattle byproduct. Cattle are injected with hormones, vaccines, other unknown chemicals, they are neglected and stand in puddles of their own shit and blood their entire lives in cages with only 2" of moving space for them. I will never support that industry and besides, I truly believe because of the aforementioned that fish byproducts are of much higher quality than slaughterhouse byproducts.
As for the Karanja, it is not a substitute for blood and bone meal, but is the exact same thing as neem meal. I'd not skip on neem or karanja, ever. Both are amazing pest repellants as they contain the compound azadirachtin.
Insofar as azomite, use 1-3 cups per/cf. If using your own crab shell definitely wash it of all salts before adding it to the soil.
Also, don't add myco to your soil mix, it's entirely pointless and will do nothing for your soil. Only use myco when transplanting. You definitely could entirely skip on the guano, I don't know many pros that use it. Epsom salts goes the same way.
Make sure you humus source is of high quality as is your EWC. 1/3 compost/EWC, 1/3 aeration, 1/3 humus (leaf mold, alaskan humus, peat, etc).
If using Bone meal, Blood meal, azomite, powdered crab shells, kelp, and karanja meal i'd mix it somewhere around:
Per c/f of soil mix
Bone Meal 1/2 cup
Blood Meal 1/2 cup
Karanja Meal 1 cup
Azomite 2-3 cups
Crab shell 2-3 cups
Kelp Meal 1 cup
Hope this helps....
A simple mix like this will without a doubt get you a high quality product. My current mix has 42 ingredients, some are redundant, but biodiversity is crucial in a living mix. For example, neem and karanja are two different amendments that serve the same purpose, I do 50/50 on those two. 2 amendments, 1 purpose; because I can!
As for the Karanja, it is not a substitute for blood and bone meal, but is the exact same thing as neem meal. I'd not skip on neem or karanja, ever. Both are amazing pest repellants as they contain the compound azadirachtin.
Insofar as azomite, use 1-3 cups per/cf. If using your own crab shell definitely wash it of all salts before adding it to the soil.
Also, don't add myco to your soil mix, it's entirely pointless and will do nothing for your soil. Only use myco when transplanting. You definitely could entirely skip on the guano, I don't know many pros that use it. Epsom salts goes the same way.
Make sure you humus source is of high quality as is your EWC. 1/3 compost/EWC, 1/3 aeration, 1/3 humus (leaf mold, alaskan humus, peat, etc).
If using Bone meal, Blood meal, azomite, powdered crab shells, kelp, and karanja meal i'd mix it somewhere around:
Per c/f of soil mix
Bone Meal 1/2 cup
Blood Meal 1/2 cup
Karanja Meal 1 cup
Azomite 2-3 cups
Crab shell 2-3 cups
Kelp Meal 1 cup
Hope this helps....
A simple mix like this will without a doubt get you a high quality product. My current mix has 42 ingredients, some are redundant, but biodiversity is crucial in a living mix. For example, neem and karanja are two different amendments that serve the same purpose, I do 50/50 on those two. 2 amendments, 1 purpose; because I can!
Your best bet is some aerated teas, topdressings, coconut water foliars. Other than that I'm stumped.
if in doubt i would probably cut it in half with a lighter fert, but high quality, bagged soil and feed extra tea if they seem like they need it, top dressings with mulch/ewc/guano/biochar/rock dust etc might be an idea i would entertain as well at different stages throughout flower..
Ya, unfortunately Im thinking Im not going to be buying a bunch of different amendments like I would want to for such a small amount of soil (I use so little). One day when I am running something larger and it is worth the cost to buy a bunch of different amendments in bulk and create a very diverse mix.
I only use myco at transplant like you said. I dont brew as much as I should or would like to but I also try to use fungi and bacteria heavy compost teas.
For the crab shell salts issue, should I have rinsed before grinding into powder? If I tried to rinse now there wouldnt be much left the vast majority of it is powdered and some tiny pieces mixed throughout too. I ended up with 1 cup from the 1-2 crab shells I used. Might not use it now you say this though.
Thanks for the help.
Hmm, I am not much of a chemist, but I am sure there is a way to rinse away that powdered crab shell of salts. I'd probably just buy some if you are feeling a bit overburdened by it. The best website on the net for high quality and by the pound amendments is without a doubt http://www.kisorganics.com . Run by a highly esteemed grower, Kis Organics has the best of organic ingredients and you can choose to buy everything by the lb. Another great face value about KIS is that all the prices you see include shipping.
Maybe run RO water through it in a coffee filter or something, I dont know, not too worried about it. It was just something that would have been thrown in the garbage anyway.
Thanks for the link Mr T. That website is looking nice so far, shipping is expensive though and a lot have 5-10lb minimums.
I just found tiny seeds forming in all of my buds. Apparently I didn't clean my oscillating fan enough and it pollinated the whole plant from a previous grow that stress hermied. It seems like no matter what I touch it gets all fucked up even when I follow instructions exactly. I don't fucking get it. It's so frustrating.
sorry to break this to you but pollen in unviable after only a few days, it doesn't take much moisture to denature it so the stress was in this grow as well.
And yes growing cannabis can be the most frustrating thing going, low lows and high peaks. One trick to avoid hermie issues is remove everything off the bottom 1/3rd of the plant, which is where often sneaky low down balls form..
Life is a cruel test, the measure of the man is how much he can continue on through.
And yes growing cannabis can be the most frustrating thing going, low lows and high peaks. One trick to avoid hermie issues is remove everything off the bottom 1/3rd of the plant, which is where often sneaky low down balls form..
Life is a cruel test, the measure of the man is how much he can continue on through.
if i want to do water only method?
if i want to do water only method?
I want to do the water only method with multiple amendments.
As of now I believe I am going to use greensand, kelp meal,alfalfa meal, bone meal, and blood meal. Any suggestions to leave out or add? How would I mix all of these ingredients if I was going to add them to pre-made LC mix #1? Then if I wanted to add guanos how would you incorporate them? Should I add molasses when I wet the soil mix for cook? I have Myco Madness should I add this at this time or wait for different timing.
if i want to do water only method?
I want to do the water only method with multiple amendments.
As of now I believe I am going to use greensand, kelp meal,alfalfa meal, bone meal, and blood meal. Any suggestions to leave out or add? How would I mix all of these ingredients if I was going to add them to pre-made LC mix #1? Then if I wanted to add guanos how would you incorporate them? Should I add molasses when I wet the soil mix for cook? I have Myco Madness should I add this at this time or wait for different timing.
Attachments
1/2c alfalfa meal
1/2c dry molasses
1c kelp meal
1c blood meal
1c bone meal
1/2c seabird guano
2tbsp Sul-Po-Mg
1/2c azomite
1/3c dolomite
1/3c gypsum
2/3c oyster shell flour
And I suppose you could substitute 1/4c of each high N and high P guano in place of the seabird...and you'd add 1/2c of greensand...
And I should say that the LC#1 is for 1 cu ft - and the above would probably be more suited for 1.5 cu ft. But if you did LC#1 x3 and the above mix x2 you'd be set.
dank.Frank
1/2c dry molasses
1c kelp meal
1c blood meal
1c bone meal
1/2c seabird guano
2tbsp Sul-Po-Mg
1/2c azomite
1/3c dolomite
1/3c gypsum
2/3c oyster shell flour
And I suppose you could substitute 1/4c of each high N and high P guano in place of the seabird...and you'd add 1/2c of greensand...
And I should say that the LC#1 is for 1 cu ft - and the above would probably be more suited for 1.5 cu ft. But if you did LC#1 x3 and the above mix x2 you'd be set.
dank.Frank
L
Luther Burbank
Kief first things first fix your typeface. That green is painful on my old eyes.
I only have these ingredients for this one.
bone meal
blood meal
greensand
kelp meal
mexican guano
and i think psg
so thats what im gonna add to the
lc #1 mix
along with some myco madness and molasses water
when i recycle i will grab a few more amendments to get my variety going
? i hear people go back and fourth about dolomitic lime i have high ph water to begin with and its suposed to raise ph so i feel my water may be balancing my ph i curently add liquid humic acids and grow in lc "#1 with general organics.
other wise mix up the mix with 1.5 cu ft of lc #1 and call it good let it cook?
bone meal
blood meal
greensand
kelp meal
mexican guano
and i think psg
so thats what im gonna add to the
lc #1 mix
along with some myco madness and molasses water
when i recycle i will grab a few more amendments to get my variety going
? i hear people go back and fourth about dolomitic lime i have high ph water to begin with and its suposed to raise ph so i feel my water may be balancing my ph i curently add liquid humic acids and grow in lc "#1 with general organics.
other wise mix up the mix with 1.5 cu ft of lc #1 and call it good let it cook?
Lime is intended to raise pH. The problem with dolimitic lime is that it contains twice as much Mg as other liming agents, therefore more likely to cause lockout. You will be fine using it just make sure you keep the Mg based amendments toned down a bit. Insofar as guano, don't use it. The rest of your amendments will suffice and adding guano is just unnecessary/redundant not to mention it is a bit salty. You could grow better buds with the rest of your amendments without the guano, imho.
Here is a mix in tempted to use. Why? Because its what I have on hand. If some one had some input on my concocted mix please share.
1 part black gold potting mix
1 part Fox farm original planting mix
1 part Fox farm ocean forest
1 part large chunky perlite
I also could do 1 part light warrior
I am thinking about cooking for 30 days using a compost tea for moistening. Also putting a seed starting heat matt on the under part of my plastic concrete mixing bin that the soil will sat in for that time period.
Was only going to use a compost tea once a week(the mix is sold by KIS and I have purchased there upgraded compost tea brewer).
My watering method is a vague area for me and am considering 2.5ml/gal Dutch master root zone conditioner along with Flora nova bloom at 1/2 tsp per gal. This mix would be brought down to 5.6-5.8 pH from my municipals 7.6 pH tap water. I would use this mix from veg through flower.
I'm sure there are a lot of opinions and am open to all. The response to this I am hoping will guide me through to a good harvest.
My lights are HGl's SOL series and I am using air pots.
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1 part black gold potting mix
1 part Fox farm original planting mix
1 part Fox farm ocean forest
1 part large chunky perlite
I also could do 1 part light warrior
I am thinking about cooking for 30 days using a compost tea for moistening. Also putting a seed starting heat matt on the under part of my plastic concrete mixing bin that the soil will sat in for that time period.
Was only going to use a compost tea once a week(the mix is sold by KIS and I have purchased there upgraded compost tea brewer).
My watering method is a vague area for me and am considering 2.5ml/gal Dutch master root zone conditioner along with Flora nova bloom at 1/2 tsp per gal. This mix would be brought down to 5.6-5.8 pH from my municipals 7.6 pH tap water. I would use this mix from veg through flower.
I'm sure there are a lot of opinions and am open to all. The response to this I am hoping will guide me through to a good harvest.
My lights are HGl's SOL series and I am using air pots.
Edit Quote Quick Reply
Don't need to let that soil "cook" for 30 days. Those prebagged soils are good to go.
