Fuel, rotten meat & other ugly smells: what causes it?

[Only Ornamental]

I have always been interested in what gave that skunky scent so I have researched and asked every smart person I could find. Everyone says the same basic thing, "it's a thiol". The problem is that those thiols cannot be found in the strains. Nobody knows what gives it that scent, but I have a pretty good guess. There is another molecule in the mix that has the same basic shape and most importantly, roughly the same quantum vibration as the thiols that we typically associate with a skunk smell.

P.S I absolutely loves the skunk smell of certain strains and looked high and low to find one. I finally found that Tahoe OG had a very skunky smell but also has burnt rubber undertones. I didn't really care for it at first, but it has grown on me like many other strains. Any bad smell that is always mentally associated with a good feeling will eventually become a good scent.

It's three thiols and that they smell also a bit like burnt rubber is obvious because burnt rubber releases related sulfur compounds . Not sure it I really want to smell a real skunk one day or not...

But would it hurt you to tell me what that guess of yours is? Appreciate it!

 

[who dat is]

What about the halitosis smelling weed? I've heard that smell also called the "old man's breath" smell. I know a cut of trainwreck at High Country Healing was famous for that smell.

I've had an MK Ultra have that synthetic, burning plastic/rubber smell before.

I also have my #3 Appalachian Diesel plant smelling like some different kind of shit right now. All the plants smells are changing as they dry. It will be interesting to see if it still has that dog shit smell when it's dried and cured.

I don't know what causes these different smells but I find it interesting. I wonder if these different terpene profiles smell differently to other people based on their physiological differences.

 

[Betterhaff]

In the future I could see this happening, even going one step further and listing what effect each terpene has on humans. It could be very useful for medicinal purposes. It would even be pretty fun for getting high purposes really. I find that limonene, pinene mix makes me feel great all day(and tastes amazing), and I expect myrcene? is the one knocking me out when I smoke Afghan types for meds or sleep, but I don't really know much about terpenes! I am learning anyway, a scratch and sniff certainly would not hurt!

Here’s a chart on terpenoids from Dr. Ethan Russo’s paper “Taming THC”.

 

[indabonga]

yes, cannabis and hops are in the same family of urticales plants(cannabaceae) and u can smell the same "base" of odors.

 

[Only Ornamental]

martian mean green ,g13 haze by soma or the 80% of the european strains smell like the green bottom of the carrorts: the green spicy smell u fell when u peel the carrots..

typical skunk smell(fresh/sweet body odor) it's from the hops family.

yes, cannabis and hops are in the same family of urticales plants(cannabaceae) and u can smell the same "base" of odors.

Errr... maybe I'm a little slow but isn't that a contradiction in itself? I mean, green carrots, sweet body odour, and hops, what has that to do with rancid oil, putrid flesh or such?
Truly sorry, but I don't get what you're trying to explain... Myrcene, humulene and other terpenes from hops aren't restricted to the Cannabaceae.
Although I don't like beer I never had the impression that it smells like Skunk.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Lets all hope that SCiO works as advertised. Its a pocket sized molecular sensor that is being brought to the masses. Its supposed to be able to determine terpines as well as thc content if the hype I read was true.

Do you have a link to the device?
-SamS

 

[Only Ornamental]

Isn't that something like the one (CLICK) Oldchuck posted recently?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I think we could learn quite a bit from aroma therapy . Sure, many terpenes also have 'conventional medicine effects' but these are seldom understood.
Anyway, cannabis has no monoterpene and no major sesquiterpene not found in a waste amount of common essential oils. Why not go with a combination of cannabis plus some drops essential oil? Many EO's have just a few major constituents so it should be possible to 'mimic' many terpenes of interest and get an estimate of quite a few possible profiles.

Unless you use 100% pure THC any trials of pure terpenes added to the herbal Cannabis will not give as clear results. Are the results from just the added terpenes or the terpenes you added inter-reacting with the terpenes present in the Cannabis already. The more terpenes involved, at all different %'s just make the work harder to understand. I would not even try an EO unless you knew what terpenes were present, at what %'s are they found in the EO, and be sure they are all found in Cannabis? And be sure it is solvent free.
I suggest you start with one terpene at a time then add more when you understand them both alone. Etc. Etc. FYI you need THC to study the tepenes and how they modify the effects in Cannabis.?
-SamS

Besides, I envy you and all those lucky bastards from over there . On the other hand, I grew up with chocolate having any type of smell you could imagine (though the high is mediocre )...

x

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I was wondering what might cause the fuel, diesel, rotten meat & dead skunk smells and maybe also other nasty odours... couldn't find anything and I know of no terpene with such kind of ugly smell.
I'd be grateful if anyone could shed some light on that.

Right now, my Ciskeis smell like the Cali-O from last year did: like overripe, rotten orange peel with hints of rancid motor oil and maybe something like turpentine. I suppose the orange and turpentine comes from racemic limonene. I don't like it that much though... Unfortunately, I never paid any attention on whether cannabis synthesises (D)-(+), (S)-(-), or racemic limonene. Anyone any idea?

It is terpenes for sure, which I do not know. I know it is terpenes because a friend grew a Afghani plant from Afghan imported seed, he called the plant KGB, and at harvest time it smelled exactly like rotten meat, and if you got any resin on your hands or arms it made them break out with a red welt. If you rubbed your eyes it blinded you for half an hour. After drying the problem was gone. You could handle the weed, manicure it, smoke it, with zero problems.
-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Myrcene smells quite nice, in a mix maybe a bit funny but I don't think it's one of the 'bad guys' (also because it's one of the major constituents in many cannabis varieties). Although, it's one of those which change smell easily and heavily influence the smell of mixtures. But it's generally regarded as lovely, nice, floral... and I know of no essential oil rich in myrcene with a bad smell.

I do not really like the smell of Myrcene, and I hate the effects or how it alters THC.
-SamS


I know... and it's what I fear.
But maybe, just maybe, someone found one or another which by itself causes a disgusting odour. That way it would be easier to remove it by selective breeding .
My experience with essential oils and volatile terpenes is that the smell may change and mixtures are unpredictable but I never smelled one that changes from lovely to puke inducing (although, some sulphur compounds like dimethyl sulfide belong to that category). Just a few stink in pure form but not like the ones I've smelled on cannabis myself or heard/read people talk/write about. Usually for my nose, a smell remains either in the category good or bad and such dominant notes like gasoline or decay should be attributable to something...

How many of the 135+ terpenes found in Cannabis have you tried?


Pinene and terpineol in pure form smell more like a pine forest, maybe harsh but not bad, and essential oils I smelled which contained high amounts of these constituents were never ugly, just very piny, fir/spruce resin like, or turpentine-ish. For me, these monoterpenes are pretty dominant, easy to smell out, and very consistent in mixtures (they don't really change flavour no matter what).

X

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

That would be great! Although rather impossible... but the major ones should be feasible. Just wonder who will spend the money for the development.

It would not be so hard the dutch poice already do it for several years now, UK also distributed more then 200,000 of these scratch and sniff cards. A few companies in the USA have made scratch and sniff post cards. You just need 135 different ones......
As for the shit smells:
http://www.google.com/patents/WO2013066563A1?cl=en

-SamS



I don't get it... do you mean it's something also found in hops like humulene and its epoxides?

@3X strayed etch 3X
My doctor proposes that you get a rhinectomy ASAP .

Just found some nice reading: CLICK ME

X

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Isn't that something like the one (CLICK) Oldchuck posted recently?

Maybe but I want to see the device GSPfan is talking about, I have seen the mydx.
-SamS

 

[Terps]

Although I don't like beer I never had the impression that it smells like Skunk.

freshly open bottle of stella artois smells like skunk

 

[Only Ornamental]

Hi Sam,
Glad you join the discussion!
I thought that you of all people should know which stuff makes or rather made Skunk so stinky; you're the one who allegedly 'invented' it after all! (Just kidding a bit !)

Unless you use 100% pure THC any trials of pure terpenes added to the herbal Cannabis will not give as clear results. Are the results from just the added terpenes or the terpenes you added inter-reacting with the terpenes present in the Cannabis already. The more terpenes involved, at all different %'s just make the work harder to understand. I would not even try an EO unless you knew what terpenes were present, at what %'s are they found in the EO, and be sure they are all found in Cannabis? And be sure it is solvent free.
I suggest you start with one terpene at a time then add more when you understand them both alone. Etc. Etc. FYI you need THC to study the tepenes and how they modify the effects in Cannabis.?
-SamS

I know what you mean but that's not what I was talking about. Maybe I look at it differently: Assuming you had a bud with 20% cannabinoids, roughly 5% of the bud would be essential oil. For simplicity, we'd say that the cannabinoids are made of pure THC and the essential oil contains single constituents at concentrations of 0.4% to 40% (when neglecting the minor ones). Lets say you smoke a joint with 20 mg THC, then you'd inhale ~5 mg essential oil of which a single constituent will be at 20 microgram to 2 mg. Taking pharmacological principles and rules of thumbs, as well as scientific findings on IC50's and alike into account, eventually the major constituents (myrcene, limonene, alpha-pinene, terpinolene, beta-caryophyllene, and alpha-humulene) could cause a direct pharmacological in vivo effect. Although, data concerning these sorts of compounds are very contradictory, the 'entourage effect' is not understood, and synergistic/super-additive effects are extremely rare. Hence, I suppose that the main effects of cannabis essential oil constituents are due to 'aroma therapeutic' effects. And for those you don't need something pure but just the right subjective smell .

It is terpenes for sure, which I do not know. I know it is terpenes because a friend grew a Afghani plant from Afghan imported seed, he called the plant KGB, and at harvest time it smelled exactly like rotten meat, and if you got any resin on your hands or arms it made them break out with a red welt. If you rubbed your eyes it blinded you for half an hour. After drying the problem was gone. You could handle the weed, manicure it, smoke it, with zero problems.
-SamS

Not only terpenes are volatile and based on a publication by Ross & ElSohly, J Nat Prot, 1996, major terpenes are only decreased but not completely lost upon drying and storage. Whereupon the aforementioned small esters should be lost faster. It could also be reactive constituents... but that remains to be proven.

I do not really like the smell of Myrcene, and I hate the effects or how it alters THC.
-SamS

How many of the 135+ terpenes found in Cannabis have you tried?

How does it smell for you? Unfortunately, I only had a rather old sample and we know that it degrades easily.

I haven't tried any but I have smelled maybe 2 to 3 dozen different mono-/sesquiterpenes and as much essential oils. Although, I haven't kept track of what/when/how... and purity of pure compounds was an issue most of the time (most were rather old samples, some of which were degraded to the point where non of the original compound was contained in the vial).
If I had tried all, maybe I wouldn't ask the original question?

It would not be so hard the dutch poice already do it for several years now, UK also distributed more then 200,000 of these scratch and sniff cards. A few companies in the USA have made scratch and sniff post cards. You just need 135 different ones......
As for the shit smells:
http://www.google.com/patents/WO2013066563A1?cl=en

-SamS

Sure it's feasible, but is it realistic (finances, interest, marketing etc.)?
I usually ignore patents (unless I would want to patent something myself)... they can claim whatever they want .

 

[lost in a sea]

well "science" still doesn't attempt to understand these things, i first started learning about aromatherapy about 5 years ago and from what i have seen since then, there is 100% definitely a communication going on between the chemical and you, a communication that resets and heals your qi energy flow through your body. IMO there is little point looking into the individual terpenes for the health benefits, that is again not a holistic point of view, everything is in synergy often with certain compounds completely altering the sound/colour/flavour of the synergy. which is why which plant essential oils to mix for what health benefits is such an art form and why aromatherapy affects you differently based on your mood and setting.

there are thousands of examples of this but there is no money in educating people over the health benefits especially when the pharmaceutical companies make so many millions through selling perfumes to hapless fools.

Women are especially intune to essential oils, which is why in the west they were the main herbal healers and witchdoctors. Before the catholic church wiped them and the druids out of course and set about a 2000 year propaganda white wash campaign against my anticedants.

light is the same, when you look at something, ie a plant or tree(something alive with a biofield), there is more information hitting you than just the image and smell, the actual biowave of the DNA is hitting you and transmitting the information from the plant/tree to you, within photons.

Ayahuasqueros and shamans, herbal healers know this and have tapped into their "sixth sense" so to speak, to commune with nature and be a more natural part of this world, this life, and help their communities do the same which is why they are the most important person in the tribe.

All of this is a world of knowledge far bigger than any textbook can hold or any website can elucidate. But one thing is for sure and that is that terpenes/plant residues and essential oils in flowers have been used as a powerful form of healing since the oldest times we have any evidence of and that is for a very good reason that goes way beyond the ability of the anal dissecting and boxing up of the modern western science.

I mean why do we venerate certain flowers so much? roses/lillys/lotuses they are some of the most powerful things on this planet(symbolically) and it isn't just the fantastic smells and golden ratio geometra that makes them so powerful in altering your perception.

It can be dark though, ie sales marketing tricks of the snake oil salesmen... they make supermarkets/shopping malls smell a certain way, certain "upmarket" clothing outlets continually have their staff spraying particular smells into the air to get the sheeple emptying their pockets. You can control peoples minds/spirits/bodies if you so desire with aromas.

 

[Daub Marley]

It's three thiols and that they smell also a bit like burnt rubber is obvious because burnt rubber releases related sulfur compounds . Not sure it I really want to smell a real skunk one day or not...

But would it hurt you to tell me what that guess of yours is? Appreciate it!

My guess is that there are molecules present that aren't thiols, but have the same basic shape and mimic the quantum vibrational frequency of certain thiols that we perceive as having a skunk scent.
I have contacted labs to find out what could give the skunk smell to cannabis and they cannot find it. Are you saying that you have found that there are three thiols in cannabis that are responsible for the burnt rubber smell? Or are you saying that there are three known thiols that exist in the world that are know to smell like burnt rubber?
P.S coffee also has thiols that make it smells delicious, so the right ones in the right concentration is quite desirable.

 

[Only Ornamental]

...(shortened it a bit, the text was sooo long )

That's more the way I meant, but I never really cared much about aroma therapy... Thank you for the insights!

My guess is that there are molecules present that aren't thiols, but have the same basic shape and mimic the quantum vibrational frequency of certain thiols that we perceive as having a skunk scent.
I have contacted labs to find out what could give the skunk smell to cannabis and they cannot find it. Are you saying that you have found that there are three thiols in cannabis that are responsible for the burnt rubber smell? Or are you saying that there are three known thiols that exist in the world that are know to smell like burnt rubber?
P.S coffee also has thiols that make it smells delicious, so the right ones in the right concentration is quite desirable.

No, I meant that there are 3 main thiols in the skunk spray . Rubber (or rather tyres) contains disulfid bridges and liberates thiols when burnt -> many such do smell similarly bad.
The structures of the skunk spray are quite unique in nature (but not exclusive either) and simply substituting the sulfur with oxygen or nitrogen won't certainly do the trick. Somehow strange that the sulfur (or whatever heteroatom or functional group) usually has a stronger effect on the perceived smell than the carbon scaffold.
Little rule of thumbs for small and simple molecules:
Sulfur (thiols, sulfides) = rotten eggs, burnt tyres, garlic/onion
Nitrogen (amins) = dead fish, cadaver, decay
Oxygen (aldehyde) = vomit, chemical, rancid if unsaturated, but also floral etc. (many scents like vanilline have an aldehyde function)
Oxygen (ester) = fruity, sweet
Phosphor in natural products is usually a phosphate group and has no smell like higher oxidation states of aforementioned groups (e.g. sulfones, nitrates, carboxylic acids) often lose their sent basically because they become less volatile.
The next close thing to sulfur would be selenium... very rare in natural compounds and usually near to identical with the sulfur homologue. Halogenated compounds are even less common and I believe that you don't want to smoke those .

I thought that you actually had an idea on the structure and not just a general concept . For my part, I can't see how to modify a 'skunky' thiol by replacing the sulfur atom without completely changing it's smell. Changing the carbon scaffold on the other hand... but then there'd still be the thiol left and we don't want that LoL . Or maybe we do?

 

[lost in a sea]

yeah you might be amazed how much people are controlled by their ignorance of their senses..

Any connoisseur of anything knows how ignorant the masses are.

At the end of the day it is a philosophical thing like everything, if you see it one way you get one answer and result if you see it another way something completely different.

it's all just waves, the whole universe, no matter how much you break it it down or build it up, everything vibrates nothing stays still ~~

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

well "science" still doesn't attempt to understand these things, i first started learning about aromatherapy about 5 years ago and from what i have seen since then, there is 100% definitely a communication going on between the chemical and you, a communication that resets and heals your qi energy flow through your body. IMO there is little point looking into the individual terpenes for the health benefits, that is again not a holistic point of view, everything is in synergy often with certain compounds completely altering the sound/colour/flavour of the synergy. which is why which plant essential oils to mix for what health benefits is such an art form and why aromatherapy affects you differently based on your mood and setting.

there are thousands of examples of this but there is no money in educating people over the health benefits especially when the pharmaceutical companies make so many millions through selling perfumes to hapless fools.

Women are especially intune to essential oils, which is why in the west they were the main herbal healers and witchdoctors. Before the catholic church wiped them and the druids out of course and set about a 2000 year propaganda white wash campaign against my anticedants.

light is the same, when you look at something, ie a plant or tree(something alive with a biofield), there is more information hitting you than just the image and smell, the actual biowave of the DNA is hitting you and transmitting the information from the plant/tree to you, within photons.

Ayahuasqueros and shamans, herbal healers know this and have tapped into their "sixth sense" so to speak, to commune with nature and be a more natural part of this world, this life, and help their communities do the same which is why they are the most important person in the tribe.

All of this is a world of knowledge far bigger than any textbook can hold or any website can elucidate. But one thing is for sure and that is that terpenes/plant residues and essential oils in flowers have been used as a powerful form of healing since the oldest times we have any evidence of and that is for a very good reason that goes way beyond the ability of the anal dissecting and boxing up of the modern western science.

I mean why do we venerate certain flowers so much? roses/lillys/lotuses they are some of the most powerful things on this planet(symbolically) and it isn't just the fantastic smells and golden ratio geometra that makes them so powerful in altering your perception.

It can be dark though, ie sales marketing tricks of the snake oil salesmen... they make supermarkets/shopping malls smell a certain way, certain "upmarket" clothing outlets continually have their staff spraying particular smells into the air to get the sheeple emptying their pockets. You can control peoples minds/spirits/bodies if you so desire with aromas.

Don't know what to say. I agree with much you say but then when you say "IMO there is little point looking into the individual terpenes for the health benefits" I do not agree at all.
So to be clear you have zero interest in understanding which terpenes are responsible for which effects? Do you also feel the same about Cannabinoids? That there is little point looking into individual Cannabinoids for health benefits?
I again would not agree, if you feel this way.
I love taking complex problems apart and understanding each little part of the whole, then understanding what small changes to the whole mean in regards to applications for peoples health.
I am glad we understand or are beginning to understand the 80+ Cannabinoids, the 130+ terpenes, as well as the other compounds found in Cannabis.
By lacking to seek and find this understanding we limit ourselves and our ability to use Cannabis as a medicine as fully as we could be. Knowledge is good, the knowledge can be used for good or bad, but the knowledge itself is good.
Cannabis science has made incredible progress since the discovery of THC, by Dr Mechoulam, in 1964, and the other Cannabinoids after 1964, and the CB1 & CB2 receptors in 1990 and 1991, as well as the finding of the Anadamide by my friend Bill Devane in 1992. Without this science work Cannabis would still be considered just a drug of abuse by police and governments and piss testers. With science on our side things are changing, medical first then recreational, step by step.
Without science we would all believe the plant makes THC from CBD, it does not, THC is made from CBG, as are all of the Cannabinoids except the Propyl Homologs, with three carbon side chains.
Speaking of THCV, everyone thought it was more psychoactive then THC, until science showed it was not psychoactive.
The same with THC everyone thought the more THC the stronger, but 100% pure THC is rated as less psychoactive then 50% THC dry sift resin that is naturally terpene rich, science showed THC is only part of the picture, terpenes play an important part.
I could go on and on but my point is science is needed to bring Cannabis back into the mainstream.
Where would Cannabis be without science? I do not want to guess.
Maybe you have a reference to "the actual biowave of the DNA is hitting you and transmitting the information from the plant/tree to you, within photons."
This sounds like science, maybe....
-SamS

 

[Daub Marley]

simply substituting the sulfur with oxygen or nitrogen won't certainly do the trick. Somehow strange that the sulfur (or whatever heteroatom or functional group) usually has a stronger effect on the perceived smell than the carbon scaffold.

[FONT=&quot]I got this from wikipedia [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"According to Turin's original paper in the journal Chemical Senses, the well documented smell of borane compounds is intensely sulfurous, though these molecules contain no sulfur. He proposes to explain this by the similarity in frequency between the vibration of the B-H bond and the S-H bond". IMO the carbon scaffold is just too vague and common for the brain to correctly identify and sort. Facial recognition is carried out in the same way in that the most rare and unusual features of a persons face are the ones that the brain will remember. I'm just spitballing tho.[/FONT]

I thought that you actually had an idea on the structure and not just a general concept.

I knew that was what you were looking for, but that's all I have at the moment. The idea that it is not a thiol but another molecule in disguise is simple, but different from the approach of most people. I certainally could be wong and I believe it's more likely to be wrong than right.