going back to an organic soil mix

[pseudostelariae]

coco has it's ups but ultimately i find it to be a hassle. way too much watering and feeding compared to a soil mix that comes with a cheaper price tag.

anyway i just mixed up 1:1:1:1 vegetable compost, worm castings, coco, and perlite. basically 50/50 soil to drainage. the mix is a little heavy so i'm considering adding another part of perlite to keep things loose. i haven't run across any rice hulls quite yet and i'm not big on vermiculite. pretty excited about this new source of compost/castings as each batch comes with a lab test printout assuring it's pest free and organic.

any input? i plan to use this as a standalone veg mix with 1-2 additions of casting/compost tea and then using an amended version of the mix to carry through flowering.

 

[pseudostelariae]

also, just to bang out a few organic related questions in a single thread, is it advisable to test the PPM of ACTeas? if so, would a vegetative tea be 300-700 and flowering on up from there? i've heard a lot of people don't bother checking pH in organics but i do anyway just to make sure it's not wildly out of acceptable range.

 

[Midnight Tokar]

That looks pretty good for seedlings but after that I think you'll run out of nutes. The amount of perlite looks fine also, although I prefer rice hulls but as you've said they're getting harder to source. I heard somewhere that places are burning the hulls as a fuel source for the boilers.
I would add some nutrients to the mix at the rate of 1 Tbs. per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot.
Neem Meal
Alfalfa Meal
Kelp Meal
Fishbone Meal
Crab Meal
Oyster flour
Diotomaceous Earth (optional)

Mix it all together moisten and let sit in a tub 4-6 weeks before use. Good for veg or flower. Too strong for sprouting.

 

[rasputin]

anyway i just mixed up 1:1:1:1 vegetable compost, worm castings, coco, and perlite. basically 50/50 soil to drainage. the mix is a little heavy so i'm considering adding another part of perlite to keep things loose. i haven't run across any rice hulls quite yet and i'm not big on vermiculite. pretty excited about this new source of compost/castings as each batch comes with a lab test printout assuring it's pest free and organic.

any input? i plan to use this as a standalone veg mix with 1-2 additions of casting/compost tea and then using an amended version of the mix to carry through flowering.

Since you asked, what is the texture of your soil? When you clump some in your hand, what kind of shape does it retain, if any? Does it break apart easily? Could answer your question both on how to amend & if you need that extra perlite.

also, just to bang out a few organic related questions in a single thread, is it advisable to test the PPM of ACTeas? if so, would a vegetative tea be 300-700 and flowering on up from there? i've heard a lot of people don't bother checking pH in organics but i do anyway just to make sure it's not wildly out of acceptable range.

Is it advisable? Well, no. Not to me, at least. It doesn't hurt but it's also not necessary and more likely to mess with your head than offer any useful information. A veg tea? What is that, exactly? What are you putting in it?

ACT is aerated compost tea; I only use molasses and compost, maybe some fish hydrolysate once in a while. PPM is low, I'm guessing. Never checked. Never once has it harmed the plants, in fact quite the opposite. They respond almost immediately in both leaf position and, if you'll allow it, general 'vibe' - they just seem happier on a level I can't quite articulate but know it when I feel it. This is useless for any objective measure of gardening, I know, but just the same - plants seem to dig it regardless of PPM measurements.

Only thing I measure is pH of my water before I start and that is more for my own peace of mind than any pressing need to know.

I think you might find that "acceptable range" is going to take on an entirely new meaning for you as you venture further down this rabbit hole.

 

[pseudostelariae]

Since you asked, what is the texture of your soil? When you clump some in your hand, what kind of shape does it retain, if any? Does it break apart easily? Could answer your question both on how to amend & if you need that extra perlite.

without any added moisture it clumps a little bit and falls apart when i open my hand completely. once wet it clumps a little but it doesn't seem overly dense. good trick!

Is it advisable? Well, no. Not to me, at least. It doesn't hurt but it's also not necessary and more likely to mess with your head than offer any useful information. A veg tea? What is that, exactly? What are you putting in it?

ACT is aerated compost tea; I only use molasses and compost, maybe some fish hydrolysate once in a while. PPM is low, I'm guessing. Never checked. Never once has it harmed the plants, in fact quite the opposite. They respond almost immediately in both leaf position and, if you'll allow it, general 'vibe' - they just seem happier on a level I can't quite articulate but know it when I feel it. This is useless for any objective measure of gardening, I know, but just the same - plants seem to dig it regardless of PPM measurements.

Only thing I measure is pH of my water before I start and that is more for my own peace of mind than any pressing need to know.

I think you might find that "acceptable range" is going to take on an entirely new meaning for you as you venture further down this rabbit hole.

when i brew tea for vegetating plants i use just worm castings or compost, whatever i have, and a little molasses whereas for flowering i'll add kelp meal and guano, although i've since bailed on the guano.

as far as heading on down the rabbit hole, sounds good to me. i'd love to ditch these meters and make it into the garden 100%. for what it's worth, compared to a constant influx of bottles, a few bins of soil around isn't a big deal if it's going to yield peace of mind. thanks for the help!

 

[bigshrimp]

Oil dry and coco chunk are both good additions around 10% I like something a little smaller than perlite to bring it together. Rice hulls do seem like they are the best though.

 

[aridbud]

Only thing I measure is pH of my water before I start and that is more for my own peace of mind than any pressing need to know.

Same here, Rasputin. Tried a few different techniques in 35 some years and different grow mediums. Soil, for me, works the best....if you get a good soil mix (bagged or blending your own), pH isn't an issue. Water, I test ever so often after starting. I do test when beginning to see where it's at....have had to make very few adjustments, usually pH down.

Others swear by hydro, coco, dwc....and that's terrific. I would rather have time to devote to other pleasurable/enjoyable pursuits vs. being a slave to the plants.

Optimum goal is a good end product, however it's done.

 

[rasputin]

without any added moisture it clumps a little bit and falls apart when i open my hand completely. once wet it clumps a little but it doesn't seem overly dense. good trick!

Without seeing it, it sounds sandy. When wet, if you put some in your hand and then make a ball, it should form into a fairly solid piece. When you apply some pressure to it, the piece should break apart. You might want to add some more organic matter to your mix and that might be a good opportunity to add some more energy to your soil.

when i brew tea for vegetating plants i use just worm castings or compost, whatever i have, and a little molasses whereas for flowering i'll add kelp meal and guano, although i've since bailed on the guano.

What are you going to use in place of the guano? Your soil mix is a little light come flower time if it is only kelp and compost with coco and perlite. You might want to look into adding some rock dusts and maybe a meal or two. Compost is not enough, I've learned.

as far as heading on down the rabbit hole, sounds good to me. i'd love to ditch these meters and make it into the garden 100%. for what it's worth, compared to a constant influx of bottles, a few bins of soil around isn't a big deal if it's going to yield peace of mind. thanks for the help!

It is certainly possible. pH measuring is practically useless in soil as a stand alone metric, it only tells you a number - it doesn't tell you what element is missing or is in excess in the soil that is leading to that number. It's only half the picture.

The best apart about growing in soil, if you reuse it, is that it keeps getting better.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

Once rice hulls get wet they're pretty useless.

 

[Gelado`]

You can test the runoff of your mix. Test both your input and output to see where your soil pH is. This is less important in organics, but it's good to know where your water is, and I always add a drop or two of pH down to my water just to make my plants' (and microbes') lives easier!

The way you're growing is a lot like the way I grow (I just use a lot more amendments).

DON'T overfert your grow; I just burned some of mine with bottled organic nutes watered in on top of the fertilizer and amendments in my soil/coco/perlite mix. I later realized 'organic' bottled nutes don't have to be completely organic in Europe (just 50% or something)! I'm not sure about the law stateside, but now that I have the bottles, I may as well use them. When the fertilizer dries up it leaves white crystals, just like chemical fertilizer. :/

 

[Microbeman]

When wet, if you put some in your hand and then make a ball, it should form into a fairly solid piece. When you apply some pressure to it, the piece should break apart. You might want to add some more organic matter to your mix and that might be a good opportunity to add some more energy to your soil.

The best apart about growing in soil, if you reuse it, is that it keeps getting better.

Words of wisdom from Rasputin for everyone to heed. These philosophies/practices date far back and are useful to farmers everywhere.

 

[pseudostelariae]

What are you going to use in place of the guano? Your soil mix is a little light come flower time if it is only kelp and compost with coco and perlite. You might want to look into adding some rock dusts and maybe a meal or two. Compost is not enough, I've learned.

.

that's what i'm looking to figure out today. i haven't grown in soil without guano yet so i'm looking to replace it with natural meals if possible. i have diatomaceous earth and have access to most of the 'down to earth' brand of meals as well as most of them on their own. i'm currently considering the vegan mix as it contains soybean meal, alfalfa meal, kelp meal, rock phosphate, sul-po-mag, stonemeal, and greensand. not sure if that will do it or if it would be better to add some blood/bone or crab meal along with oyster shell flour. looking to keep this as simple with as few ingredients as possible while giving the plants everything they need.

would it be better to purchase the meals separately and mix them in at different ratios? i only need to amend about 50gallons of soil.

 

[FunkBomb]

Purchasing all the different amendments will be a expensive. I have some of them, like greensand, guanos, and gypsum. To save money and get the job done just as well go with the mix. I use Espoma Garden Tone and love it.

-Funk

 

[aridbud]

Purchasing all the different amendments will be a expensive. I have some of them, like greensand, guanos, and gypsum. To save money and get the job done just as well go with the mix. I use Espoma Garden Tone and love it.

-Funk

Agreed. All those additives, CA-ching!! ($$$), 'tis the reason to blend your own.

 

[h.h.]

Mix up some loamy soil in water, let it settle for a minute and use the dirty water on your soil.
Your soil will retain the clay and a bit of the silt from the dirty water. This should help with soil adhesion and water retention while adding a few minerals. It make take a couple of waterings, just watch the progress and you'll know when to stop using it.


Nothing wrong with Espoma.

 

[aridbud]

Mix up some loamy soil in water, let it settle for a minute and use the dirty water on your soil.
Your soil will retain the clay and a bit of the silt from the dirty water. This should help with soil adhesion and water retention while adding a few minerals. It make take a couple of waterings, just watch the progress and you'll know when to stop using it.


Nothing wrong with Espoma.

You know your stuff....good to read your posts h.h.!!

 

[h.h.]

You know your stuff....

I thought the same thing once, then I ran into somebody who did.

 

[Weird]

humility is the greatest lesson

 

[bigshrimp]

I'd be careful watering in fine particulate, it can clog all the air space in the top of your pots. Or go easy on the silt if you do.

Once rice hulls get wet they're pretty useless.

I think your confused with DE.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

No big shrimp , I'm not.