The Curious Cab of Cannabis - 400w CMH

[DnKNg5]

Welcome to my Curious Cab of Cannabis, my first effort at growing cannabis. This project started by me tossing some bag seed beans in a wet towel, curious to see if I could get them to germ. 7/8 did and now were here, Day 1 of flower and after 36 days of veg we have 2 gals left from the 4/5 that I took to full veg. The other 2 were culled for space reason. The first two weeks were 18/6 under (2) 24" T5's, since then it has been a 400w Ceramic Metal Halide and that's what will take it all the way to harvest. I am flowering in 2g pots, which they were transfered into 6 days ago with a 90/10 FFOF/pertlite mix. I am using Floranova Bloom (not what I should have bought, live and learn) for nutes and watering with tap water that has sit for 24 hrs. The PH of my tap water is 7.1. The purpose of this specific grow is to help me experience the process of growing and learn first hand the life cycle of cannabis. As such, I'm trying not to set myself up for a disappointing harvest by estimating quality or yield. I think that would just get in the way of the experience. I welcome and encourage all comments and questions, I want to learn as much as possible from this grow. Pleasantries aside, lets see some mutha fucking cannabis.

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Day 1 of Flower
My soil is running hot because I didn't understand how to properly use my nutes. I thought I was giving them 500ppm, more like 1200...

The furious 5, 4 of whoom ended being Females

And then there were 2

​

If you didn't catch it at the beginning of the post you can see the veg pictures here.​

 

[stonedar]

you say you don't like FNB or it's not what you shoulda bought yet your plants look fine other than like you said you had to back down on the nutes some.
looks like a really great 1st grow, hope it continues well. after a couple bagseed runs you'll be on to some bought seeds.
you can grow great weed with FNB or FNB and some Floralicious plus & koolbloom even greater-er

 

[DnKNg5]

you say you don't like FNB or it's not what you shoulda bought yet your plants look fine other than like you said you had to back down on the nutes some.
looks like a really great 1st grow, hope it continues well. after a couple bagseed runs you'll be on to some bought seeds.
you can grow great weed with FNB or FNB and some Floralicious plus & koolbloom even greater-er

Don't get me wrong, from what I have seen FNB has been working great on my plants, aside my from my misunderstanding of how I should adjust the ratio for soil. Everything considered it's actually been great; it's simple to use and keeps my plants healthy. I have a water farm (future grow) that I am bought the FNB for, and I just used what I had laying around. I really wasn't ready when they started telling me they were hungry so I just went with what I had on hand. I got frustrated when I couldn't find any specific literature on how to adjust my feeding schedule for soil instead of hydro and I think that's what has lead to my dissatisfaction, not the performance of the product. Next time I go soil-less I want to use mix-in food. It seems like a more natural way for the plant to feed.

 

[B. Self Reliant]

Lookin' good. I cut my FFOF with about 30% Perlite so I'm anxious to see how your plants do with only 10%.

Now that you only have a couple plants, you may want to think about a way to make the canopy as even as possible. As they stretch out you can slowly train the branches to go where you want them. A roll of tying line from a garden store is like $2 and at the very least it'll allow you to ensure every branch gets direct light. Burn or drill some small holes in the top of your containers and tie down to those. You have some space in there with only two plants so you may as well use it to your advantage.

I first used dry nutrients in soilless mixes for my outdoor plants and they work great. The Organics for Beginners thread is killer. I use LC's mix with peat, perlite, & EWC. Very easy to mix & get the ingredients for. I tried the teas but they were too much of a hassle to use on such a small scale. Then I tried the guanos mixed in and it's amazing what your plants can do with no other food. You have to adjust your amendments a little based on your veg & flower time, but it's simple and it works great. I still plan on using coco with synthetic nutrients, but if I was going to make the switch to organics that's the way I'd go.

 

[Shackleford Rus]

Hey man, good call on the FFOF & Flora Nova combo. That's what I use. I like the single cola structure of your strain; looks perfect for a SoG. Looks great man, keep it up.

 

[DnKNg5]

Lookin' good. I cut my FFOF with about 30% Perlite so I'm anxious to see how your plants do with only 10%.

In my research I saw mixes ranging from 50/50 - 100%. My thinking was 1) There is already a bit of Perlite in the FFOF and 2) aside from drainage and aeration, I don't think the Perlite has another function, whereas the FFOF contains all kinds of goodies for my gals to feast on. When I water, it seems to drain rather quickly. Hopefully week 8 doesn't roll around and my mix has compacted to half the container

Now that you only have a couple plants, you may want to think about a way to make the canopy as even as possible. As they stretch out you can slowly train the branches to go where you want them. A roll of tying line from a garden store is like $2 and at the very least it'll allow you to ensure every branch gets direct light. Burn or drill some small holes in the top of your containers and tie down to those. You have some space in there with only two plants so you may as well use it to your advantage.

It's funny you mention this as I bought a bag of bamboo stakes and soft ties last night but the stakes were way too long so I had to cut them down. I also drilled holes in the lips of the pots when I re potted in anticipation of a little bondage. Now I am waiting for the lights to turn on so I can get in there and do work! Nothing like a bit of bondage to start out the day. It's time to get freaky with the ladies! Two questions about training. 1) One of my plants is about 6-8" taller then the other. Should I raise the shorter plant so it is level with the taller plant or should I let it catch up on it's own? 2) This question has more to do with light distance. My 400w is in a cool tube and my plants can get within about 8" from the tube without burning. Should I keep my light right above the plants to maximize exposure and minimize stretch or would it be okay to raise it to it's highest point for now? The highest point would be about 28" above the plants, my light is currently 14" above my plants.

I first used dry nutrients in soilless mixes for my outdoor plants and they work great. The Organics for Beginners thread is killer. I use LC's mix with peat, perlite, & EWC. Very easy to mix & get the ingredients for. I tried the teas but they were too much of a hassle to use on such a small scale. Then I tried the guanos mixed in and it's amazing what your plants can do with no other food. You have to adjust your amendments a little based on your veg & flower time, but it's simple and it works great. I still plan on using coco with synthetic nutrients, but if I was going to make the switch to organics that's the way I'd go.

That's some great info!

 

[DnKNg5]

Hey man, good call on the FFOF & Flora Nova combo. That's what I use. I like the single cola structure of your strain; looks perfect for a SoG. Looks great man, keep it up.

Yeah the more I think about it, the more I like FNB. What were your feed ratios through veg? The label says 1 tsp/gal = 500ppm but I found it too be more like 900ppm, at least that's what my meter was telling me when I was taking readings of my nuted water (before feeding). The only reason I bothered to check was because I ran my meter through my run off and it was above 1600... I haven't gave them any food since then, which was before I re potted them 7 days ago. I'm hoping to see the run off drop next time I water them.

 

[DnKNg5]

Into Bondage?

Into Bondage?

Yesterday was day 3 of flower and I did quite a bit of training. The goal was to even out my canopy and get as many budsites direct exposure to my light. This is something I obviously should have done in Veg but I was more interested in seeing how the cannabis grew naturally on it's own. The space was also much more packed as I had 5 plants in my cab for the last 2 weeks of veg and they literally took the space over. I went on vacation for the last week of veg and the plants showed sex during that time. In the future as soon as the plants show sex is when I'll start training my canopy. If I had used my last five days of veg to train the plants I think I would be in a much better place.

I haven't fed my plants in almost two weeks because of how hot I got the soil during veg. My runoff yesterday was 1500ppm so I flushed them down to about 1100. I still don't think I understand how often to feed them. Right now I am really only going off visual appearance. Any input on this would be greatly appreciated. More then anything I think I am just worried about burning them. I hope my caution isn't causing them harm!

 

[pinecone]

I like what you are doing here. You are obviously getting a lot of things right.

I haven't fed my plants in almost two weeks because of how hot I got the soil during veg. My runoff yesterday was 1500ppm so I flushed them down to about 1100. I still don't think I understand how often to feed them. Right now I am really only going off visual appearance. Any input on this would be greatly appreciated. More then anything I think I am just worried about burning them. I hope my caution isn't causing them harm!

I used to grow in straight FFOF and it is probably good for 3-weeks for flowering plants (in my space at least). My advice would be to resist the urge to "boost" your plants growth by using too much stuff. Just look at them. If they are green and healthy, all is well. If they aren't, there is a problem. Right now your plants look pretty good.

Pine

 

[DnKNg5]

I like what you are doing here. You are obviously getting a lot of things right.



I used to grow in straight FFOF and it is probably good for 3-weeks for flowering plants (in my space at least). My advice would be to resist the urge to "boost" your plants growth by using too much stuff. Just look at them. If they are green and healthy, all is well. If they aren't, there is a problem. Right now your plants look pretty good.

Pine

Thanks for the input Pine! I've read many of your post, in fact your post on plant sex is how I determined what sex my plants were. I especially like your organic mulch recycle experiment. It definitely put some ideas in my head. Users like you are what make this such a great community.

After doing a bit more research I am more inclined to believe that I have a PH problem. I have been watering with 7.0 tap water that I have been letting sit for 24 hours to dechlorinate and after a soil PH test on both my plants I found the PH to be 7.0 or above (kinda hard to get an exact number by comparing the colors.) I'm sure I didn't make the problem any better by flushing with tap water. Tomorrow I am going to buy a 5 gallon water bottle and use that to premix my water and PH down each week. The next step will be to flush my soil until I can achieve a PH of 6.5. Once I can fix this PH problem I'm hoping the rest will fall into place.

 

[pinecone]

After doing a bit more research I am more inclined to believe that I have a PH problem. I have been watering with 7.0 tap water that I have been letting sit for 24 hours to dechlorinate and after a soil PH test on both my plants I found the PH to be 7.0 or above (kinda hard to get an exact number by comparing the colors.)

What exactly is the evidence that you have a problem now? I know the test strips say your pH is 7.0, but honestly the plants look pretty good. Maybe they had a rough patch earlier because you were feeding them, but they look the way they are supposed to look now. I would recommend leaving them and chucking the pH strips. When you are ready to starting using the Flora Nova, buy a pH meter.

The next step will be to flush my soil until I can achieve a PH of 6.5. Once I can fix this PH problem I'm hoping the rest will fall into place.

I'm not an expert in these things as I never flush my medium or adjust pH, but this whole idea seems strange. FFOF is highly buffered and you aren't going to get it to drop its pH by running water through it. My guess anyway.

They type of nutrients that are pre-loaded into FFOF (the fish meal, bat guano, kelp, castings, ect) are not soluble and have to be broken down by microbes before they can be used by the plants. This process is going to ensure that they are made soluble at some point in the near future and that ultimately they (actually their by products) are at a correct pH for absorption. You don't have to do anything. In my straight FFOF grows I used 7.8 pH water with no pH adjustments.

Flora Nova is a salt-based fertilizers and thus doesn't rely on microbial activity to make it soluble or to get its pH in the correct range. Being a salt-based fertilizer the pH of the fertilizer solution also has to be at the correct pH for the salts to be absorbed. When you start using this stuff is when you need to be concerned about pH of fertilizer solution - not the medium.

Pine

 

[B. Self Reliant]

Perlite does provide drainage & aeration, and that's a pretty big function. Different strains & growing conditions = different aeration levels. The amount of perlite also dictates how often you have to water. This is also an important variable, and probably the one that will dictate how much you use in the end. You're right when you say it doesn't contain any nutrients, but if you cut your starting mix for your keg cups by 1/3, who cares? What's the difference if you start feeding Day X vs. Day Y. As long as you give your plants the medium they want, and you keep in somewhat consistent you'll know when to start feeding them & that's the important part. It's hard to say why your water is draining rather quickly, but sometimes if a medium is to compacted the water will just run down the sides of the pot.

Two separate issues with the canopy. First, get your canopy as level as possible by propping the shorter plant up on a "rock or something" (know that reference?!). Do that regardless of training method. Adjust the height of the pots to keep things even as you train if that's your plan. Bricks work great because each one gives you three different heights to adjust with. Second is defining the ideal height. With a cool tube (very efficient at cooling) and a 400 watter, I'd say 8" sounds reasonable, but situation dictates. A lot of times it's a compromise between footprint of the lamp vs. the ideal height, but for cabinet guys like yourself just do whatever the plants like. I used to run my 600 in a cool tube 8"-10" from the tops. What's the advantage of raising the light up all the way? Stretch is something the plant is programmed to do, you just need to provide ideal conditions which means putting the lamp as close as you can (while still covering the whole space & without burning your tops).

Never use the directed amounts, if you do use half. For your final PPM you'll have your starting PPM, then any CalMag you add, then your nutrients themselves. if you have meters now you should have no problem coming up with repeatable recipes, including Ph adjustment. The smallest batch of nutrients I'd mix at a time is 3 gallons. Any less and the margin of error is too great in my humble experience.

Wise move on watching the plants grow naturally your first time around. I still grow new strains that way before trying anything crazy. It gives you a status quo to compare to. Hopefully you'll eventually be working with a mom. That way you only have to worry about # of days in veg instead of worry about sexing and all that.

Ph testing soil, testing run-off. . . these are not things you need to do. I know this is your first run and you're in the experimental stage, but that kind of stuff isn't going to be a part of your long-term plan. If you end up using organic soil or soilless mediums & nutrients, you'll use peat moss & pulverized dolomite lime for PH. . . after that you can give them tap water at whatever it's at a long as you let it dechlorinate first. If you go hydroponics (such as coco coir with synthetic nutrients) you'll Ph balance all your plain water & your nutrient solutions to 5.8-6.1. Most of the time people following those guidelines don't have problems. In terms of your current project, get the lights adjusted correctly, even out the canopy, come up with a conservative flowering solution and if things still look bad (which they don't now), then worry about Ph. I have to no idea how Ph works when using synthetic nutrients in a soiless medium like FFOF. I also don't know why anyone would grow that way. Go organic or go hydro, right now you're doing the work of hydro without reaping the rewards.

Glad things are going well overall. Looking forward to updates.

 

[DnKNg5]

Wow, Pine and BSR both of those post just really helped it 'click' for me.

They type of nutrients that are pre-loaded into FFOF (the fish meal, bat guano, kelp, castings, ect) are not soluble and have to be broken down by microbes before they can be used by the plants. This process is going to ensure that they are made soluble at some point in the near future and that ultimately they (actually their by products) are at a correct pH for absorption. You don't have to do anything. In my straight FFOF grows I used 7.8 pH water with no pH adjustments.

Flora Nova is a salt-based fertilizers and thus doesn't rely on microbial activity to make it soluble or to get its pH in the correct range. Being a salt-based fertilizer the pH of the fertilizer solution also has to be at the correct pH for the salts to be absorbed. When you start using this stuff is when you need to be concerned about pH of fertilizer solution - not the medium.

Ph testing soil, testing run-off. . . these are not things you need to do. I know this is your first run and you're in the experimental stage, but that kind of stuff isn't going to be a part of your long-term plan. If you end up using organic soil or soilless mediums & nutrients, you'll use peat moss & pulverized dolomite lime for PH. . . after that you can give them tap water at whatever it's at a long as you let it dechlorinate first. If you go hydroponics (such as coco coir with synthetic nutrients) you'll Ph balance all your plain water & your nutrient solutions to 5.8-6.1. Most of the time people following those guidelines don't have problems. In terms of your current project, get the lights adjusted correctly, even out the canopy, come up with a conservative flowering solution and if things still look bad (which they don't now), then worry about Ph. I have to no idea how Ph works when using synthetic nutrients in a soiless medium like FFOF. I also don't know why anyone would grow that way. Go organic or go hydro, right now you're doing the work of hydro without reaping the rewards.

Right now I just need to leave my plants the fuck alone. I just watered them last night (plain dechlorinated tap water) so they shouldn't need anything for the next couple days. My new resolution is to only open my cabinet to check on the gals once a day. In fact I probably won't update this for a week to help me keep that resolution. Thanks again Pine and BSR for getting me back on track. Oh and don't worry, once things actually start 'happening' I will get the updates going. Cheers!

 

[Roms]

cmh fan

Vibes DnKNg5!

 

[DnKNg5]

Day 14

Day 14

Bitches be STREEEEEETCHIN!!! These gals are seriously out of control. In the past 10 days they have stretched 14" and if they don't stop soon this could become a problem! I've decided to be proactive and I crossed the two plants main stalks. I thought about training the stalks to the outside of each side of the cabinet, basically the opposite of what I did but I decided against it because the light falls off significantly near the edges of the cabinet. I've obviously learned the value of training during veg. I can safely say I would never grow in this cabinet again without some sort of canopy control measure, regardless of strain. Lesson learned.

It also appears that both of my plants have a N deficiency. They are both yellowing from the bottom up. The leaves don't feel dry however so they aren't drying out. BS1 has more yellowing then BS2 but BS1 also seems to be a bit more robust. Yesterday they were given their second feeding in as many weeks. I've also begun to supplement them with blackstrap unsulphured molasses. They have been drinking about a half gallon of water every 2-3 days.

Now onto the fun shit

The budsites on both plants are definitely maturing and showing lots of pistils. The center of all the budsites all seem to be much lighter then color then the rest of the plant. I'm not really sure why. Anyone? Overall I think things are going okay. Could be better, could be worse. I've got some good genetics coming in the mail (gift from a friend) so I'm already ready, seed wise, for round 2. Definitely not using the same methods/mediums as this current grow.

 

[DnKNg5]

Day 18

Day 18

Just had a large vapor bowl so Ima keep this one quick. Crossing the two main stalks turned out to be the best possible solution for my height issue. Not only have the plants stopped stretching but now there is also a bed of bud sites in between the two main cola's about 10-14 deep. Previously these gals had been hiding along the main stalk, struggling to get out from under the top fan leaves. Now they are in primo light territory and loving every minute.
​

The flowers have really seem to been developing in the last couple of days as well.

BS1

BS2

Don't forget to celebrate your independence with some civil disobedience.

Peace.
​

 

[B. Self Reliant]

Any recent pics? I'd love to see how far down they made it with the training.

 

[heady blunts]

sweet little cab

i'd say that yellowing in the under canopy is because they're not getting any light through that healthy dense foliage. nothing to be concerned about -- looks pretty good to me in there

Definitely not using the same methods/mediums as this current grow.

what's the plan for round two?

 

[DnKNg5]

Day 29

Day 29

Sorry for the hold up on the update, it's been sunny and that doesn't happen often in my locale. Well lots has been going on in that curious cab of mine. Finally wrangled some stretchy gals under control. It seems like as soon as the plants recovered from the training they stopped stretching. The past 10 days seem like it's been nothing bud development. Pistils are in abundance, leaves are getting frosty and in the past couple of days the buds have really begun to swell (which reminds me that I need to water tonight.) I am still running my nutes a bit hot I think, their next feeding will be a little lighter. I've also been supplementing their FNB with blackstrap unsulphured molasses. Tonight I realized that my humidity during lights out can get up to 70%-80%, obviously not desirable. Is it time to start looking for a small dehumidifier? Any input is always welcome.

 

[DnKNg5]

Any recent pics? I'd love to see how far down they made it with the training.

The training really turned out great and helped me turn my problem into a solution that had some added benefits. My main cola was stretching much faster then my lower canopy and I think the fact that I kept having to raise my light made it worse. Crossing the stems allowed me to bring the light about 6" closer to the lower canopy. It also gave me a dense bed of buds directly under my light, orientated in the same direction as my tube. So now instead of two canopies I have 3! My only wish is that I would have done it during the 2nd week of flowering so I could have kept all the canopies closer together.