7.6 soil nightmare situation

[Mr. Beanz]

So I mixed my own soil for a closet ScrOG I have going on andd I made the mistake of using hydroton as a replacement for perlite. I didn't find out till after I did some reading on the mandala seeds website that hydroton has an inert ph of like 8.2 or something. I didn't know.
I used a lot of hydroton....

Now the soil has a pH of 7.6 and I'm worried about the micro nutrient def and ammonia toxicity. I was wondering what, if anything can I do about this now, as they're in a scrog setup and WELL weaved into the net so I can't transplant them.

Would watering them with a low 5.8-6 pH purposely do anything?

ps
I don't need to know how dumb that was. I already know.

 

[zeppelindood]

any chance you'd be able to scrap it and use soil that's not hot?

 

[rives]

I have done as you suggested when my soil wasn't where I wanted it. You pick a pH to bring your inbound water to, slowly water the plant and catch the first runoff. If the pH is still too high, bring the inbound down some more. If it's too low, go the other way. Then every time you water, you pH your inbound water to the level that gets you where you want to be. I thought that thoroughly washed hydroton was neutral - keep an eye on your runoff and it may come into the correct zone after a while.

 

[Hammerhead]

As far as I know that would make the PH neutral 7.0 thats same as most good soil mixes. If you made your own soil mix you would use Dolomite lime witch buffers the soil to 7.0.

pH is Neutral Hydroton is almost completely inert and will not
release any minerals into your solution that could affect pH levels.

You have something else going on.

 

[Mr. Beanz]

Thansk for the quick answers guys
Truth is I thought hydroton was good too, but Im going my the information I got on the mandala seeds site, so basically I taking the advice of experienced seeds breeders. I'm not saying you don't know your shit.
They did say that they're making hydroton the is neutral now tho...
Ill find the link and the exact words right now. I did use lime also btw.
The plants actually don't look bad at all. They're growing pretty well actually, but they've only been in the soil for 21 days

I just wanted to jump on it before the problems start. Btw, there's no way I can move the plants...

 

[Hammerhead]

Also if you used New It requires a good rinse before you use it. 7.6 is not that far off.If you used coco as the base I would use 5.8. If you used a soil blend as your base I would use 6.5 and call it good. Just keep an eye on them

 

[Mr. Beanz]

Also if you used New It requires a good rinse before you use it. 7.6 is not that far off.If you used coco as the base I would use 5.8. If you used a soil blend as your base I would use 6.5 and call it good. Just keep an eye on them

Thanks m8, sound that

 

[Dave Coulier]

Mr. Beanz here is how to fix your problem:

Buy any fertilizer that has most of its Nitrogen in the Ammonium form, and feed your plants. The higher the %, the faster it will lower your pH. You can also use Urea, as it breaks down into 100% Ammonium Nitrogen, but it will initially raise media pH when used. I currently use Miracle Grow 100% Urea fertilizer to lower soil pH when I have problems.

Also, pH your water to 4.5 as this will eliminate all alkalinity in your irrigation water. Do this before adding the fertilizer. With the alkalinity neutralized in your water, the fertilizer will have its greatest affect on the alkalinity in your soil that is causing the high pH.

If you do these two steps you will see a reduction of at least .5 points in a week. It takes me about two weeks to reduce pH 1.0-1.5 points.

I would use less D. Lime next time. That may have been the cause. Too much of it can cause problems.

 

[Mr. Beanz]

Is there any danger of burning the roots or the plants? What about the fact that I'm in flower? Is the increase in nitrogen gonna mess up my plants at all?
I loved you in Full House btw.

 

[Hammerhead]

Do what you where going to do. Your PH OF 7.6 is not a concern. Just grow like I mentioned

 

[Dave Coulier]

Is there any danger of burning the roots or the plants? What about the fact that I'm in flower? Is the increase in nitrogen gonna mess up my plants at all?
I loved you in Full House btw.

There's no danger to the plants as long as you dont use too much fertilizer. I use the Urea at 1 teaspoon/gallon. I should have mentioned that before. Sorry.

You may be surprised to hear this, but Nitrogen needs go up in flower. Once flowering has fully set in is when I feed my plants the most. Later on in flowering when they are swelling and nearing the end I would back off your fertilizer rates though.

Its always nice to meet a fan of Full House . Thanks.

With regards to Hammerhead saying a pH of 7.6 isn't a problem, it is a problem. Micronutrient availability reduces as pH increases, as does P. Ive had Micronutrient deficiencies develop at a pH of 7, but Ive also had no visible symptoms at the same pH, but I would still strive to reduce my pH.

7.6 pH is a ticking time bomb. Especially during flowering. There's nothing worse than a micronutrient deficiency causing bud formation to abort.

 

[Hammerhead]

I completly disagree with you. You can do what you want. I gave him real advise not speculation. Take a look at my albums There's hundreds of plants that have had PH of over 7 with no issues then I got my Bluelab my soil is buffered as well. Like I said no problem with that PH it will all work fine with a feeding of 6.5 PH. What was used to measure the PH. If he has Buffered his soil like he said that 7.6 pH reading is incorrect.

Also you state that you had problems with 7 pH if yo did you had another problem not PH if your in soil. I have mentioned the buffering 3 times now. We are growing in soil not coco/hydro. If you mix your nutrient to 6.5 and measure the runoff it will be 7 or slightly higher.

As he stated his plants are healthy no problems. Use my advise or dont good luck

 

[RubeGoldberg]

Before we all get too far here, What are you measuring the PH with??? you said your soil's PH...
Only problem is soil probes are the single most unreliable and inaccurate pieces of shit you can buy.

 

[Dave Coulier]

I completly disagree with you. You can do what you want. I gave him real advise not speculation. Take a look at my albums There's hundreds of plants that have had PH of over 7 with no issues then I got my Bluelab my soil is buffered as well. Like I said no problem with that PH it will all work fine with a feeding of 6.5 PH. What was used to measure the PH. If he has Buffered his soil like he said that 7.6 pH reading is incorrect.

Also you state that you had problems with 7 pH if yo did you had another problem not PH if your in soil. I have mentioned the buffering 3 times now. We are growing in soil not coco/hydro. If you mix your nutrient to 6.5 and measure the runoff it will be 7 or slightly higher.

As he stated his plants are healthy no problems. Use my advise or dont good luck

My 'speculation' came from Understanding pH Management For Container-Grown Crops written by William Argo, and Paul Fisher.

Both men have a Ph.D. in horticultural science.

Below is little bit about Bill.

Bill Argo, Blackmore Company Inc

William R. Argo received his undergraduate degree in chemistry from Indiana University and his graduate degrees in horticulture science from Michigan State University. Since 1996, Dr. Argo has worked for the Blackmore Company providing technical services on nutritional problems in plug and greenhouse production. Dr. Argo has co-authored over 120 scientific and technical publications including the 1996, 2003, and 2004 winner of OFA's Alex Laurie award.

Now do you think Im still speculating?

What I told him to do is outlined in that great book I mentioned already. Its a great read, and maybe it would benefit you to read it.

As for buffering his soil and possibly incorrect pH reading, it is possible he over did it on the D. Lime and that he did take a correct reading. It generally does buffer to high 6's or low 7's, but it can increase into the high 7's, and topping at out 8.5 if over applied.

Now with regards to your plants doing fine at a pH of over 7, thats great. Ive got some lovely looking plants flowering right now and they have a pH of 7.10, but its too high nonetheless. Optimum nutrient uptake is accomplished at a lower pH. Generally 5.8-6.2 in soilless media. Even if my plants look great now, I know they will perform better in that lower range, and that's what Im going to strive for everytime.

Also, nutrient deficiencies can often limit yields before the plant even begins to show signs of problems, so we could have problems and not even realize it.

Edit: Mr.Beanz, when media pH is high and limiting uptake of certain nutrients, you can increase your nutrient ppms to counteract this, but its only a temporary fix and shouldn't be relied on.

Prevention is a much better option than being forced to take corrective actions after problems arise.

 

[RubeGoldberg]

 

[Hammerhead]

dude did you read his post come on. he is almost 9 weeks into flower with no PH issues. What does that tell you. You keep reading thats seems to fit your growing needs.. optimum soil PH is 6.5 for soil and you dont even use that. I trust my own growing experience. Sure I love a good book but wont use what they recommend been doing it for way to long. I could write a book what does that mean nothing. BOG has a book what does that mean nothing. Your making this way to complicated for the OP. He only has 2 maybe 3 more weeks and your telling him to add N. He should not be feeding anything at this point.

I have said what I NEED TO.

Good Luck with your grow Beanz. If you want any further help PM me.

 

[Dave Coulier]

I must have missed the part where he said he was 9 weeks into flower. I looked back over the thread, and still didn't see it. Could you point it out for me? Either way, I was offering him a way of lowering his pH, which he was ASKING for. Im sorry you dont like my answers.

Now about soil, how many people use that for indoor grows? I dont. I believe most of us use soilless media, and its 5.8-6.2 for many crops. 6.0-6.4 is also an acceptable range, but anything over that and we begin to get out of the optimum zone. Its not to say you can't grow good looking plants outside of it, as we've both done, but there's no reason to be on the outside of the optimum range when we can be in it.

I like how you discredited the author by comparing your ability to write a book versus his, yet his education far exceeds yours when it comes to horticulture. Did you miss the part where he co-authored over 120 scientific and technical publications? Or perhaps where he won the Alex Laurie award 3 times.

The Alex Laurie Award, established in 1948, is presented annually to an individual who has made significant contributions to research and education in the floriculture industry.

Have you won any awards lately? I think he knows his shit, imo. Grow experience counts as evidenced by your plants which are quite lovely looking, but Grow experience + increased education are a better combo.

 

[Hammerhead]

This will be my last post I thought he said he was late in flower??
Here is the correct chart, There is nothing in those books that I cant learn from my Mentor DutchGrown. You can use your book I will use a live person that is a world class breeder and has won 420 cups blind tested. I dont need to read some dude won something that might not even pertain to cannabis.. I had to say something your giving him the wrong info anyone would.

I do I use 6.5 pH everyday. There are thousands of us the use premixed soil. I use FFOF mixed with FFLW. I use to mix my own soil and used 6.5 all the time. I also used RO/DI as well with call/mag. I cant do that anymore with my Disability. Everyone I know uses 6.5. Doesn't matter if its soil less(with all amendments added)/soil it requires 6.5. As you can see your PH is out of spec. If you dont want to use the correct PH value thats all you. I will however tell everybody what the correct value should be.

Of course you think awards make the grower. and im sure it was high time cup lol. Go to the 420 cup he will get a real run for the money. You have your way witch is wrong in my opinion. I will just agree to disagree good luck with your book grows.

Im done with this. You can reply but I wont. You obviously dont want to learn.