Plummeting Marijuana Prices for Growers

[johnhinkleyjr]

dont get me wrong i think its a good thing.for the most part. yes, the market for growers is getting hijacked. consolidation of wealth for rich people through a free market by means of an expanding marijuana market replacing the same thing by means of an expanding prison population built on archaic drug laws. a lot of people will have to find work but a lot more people will stop having their lives upheaved by getting run through the court system for smoking herb. its a welcome trade off but the age of 6 figure entry level work for risk taking green thumbed people on the west coast is over. it is now being handed to people with enough money to have access to the right hands to shake just like every other lucrative industry. hopefully they start pulling folks out of prison. there needs to be a federal job training program for middle age growers whose only skills are completely obsolete at this point. its going to happen a lot faster than folks think. its going to also be an end to diesel generator spills in salmon breeding habitat and lungs full of avid smoke. the people who know how to mix botanicare and wire lights are not going to be employed in this new field.horticulture grads will get middle income wages to lead low paying workers in ag work. the people who make money will be business people with access to licensing and contracts, skilled in running a business by means of consulting and navigating agriculture based industry. southern humboldt is going to be super surreal. a wild ghost town of loosly dispersed abandoned mansions on land whose only resource was remoteness and mild climate for a mountainous region. as it becomes financially unfeesable to truck potting soil an hour and a half up unmaintained logging roads to infertile rocky clay hillsides people will be forced to move and find work in other areas in other fields. knowing how to mix boutique overpriced pre-made fertilizer products discretely is just not a skill that is transferrable to any other industry. it wont be matter of seeing how many hundreds of dollars you can make per square meter it will be per hectacre just like any agricultural crop. the money will be made by comparably the few business people skilled in managing the farm to distribution to wholesale markets that will get rich. people will get rich of the work off manipulating the commodities of hundreds of farms that manage thousands of farm workers. no one skilled in planting growing and harvesting tobacco is rich. there wont be thousands of small indoor farmers sustaining middle class incomes providing herb that would have to priced similarly to dom perignon. nope most people drink modestly priced cheap to mid range beers and microbrews pr 10-20 dollar a bottle wines. they dont drink 10 year old barley wines or 150 bottles of wine. not even on fancy occasions nor will people pay 20 times as much for organic indoor ghost train when really great quality og hybrids and productive indicas are being produced in massive climate controlled greenhouses and open california wine country. eventually people will pay high dollar for imported cheaply produced sativas from central america like people love a fancy $30 tequilla from mexico. indoor wont be micro brew vs budweiser, it will be massive greenhouse weed vs sacramento valley tractor farmed grade. get ready to go to community college and learning how to type and manage a household budget.maybe salmon numbers will be up in the mattole again soon. thats more exciting to me than how cool it will be to buy disposable bho pens at the corner store. real talk

 

[johnhinkleyjr]

as long as there are places where cannabis can not be consumed legally there will be good numbers for Black Market growers...(Strap ya nuts ,,hit da road ,bring it back, stash the pro's) simple .I grew up in a family of growers it's been the same way and won't change till it's all the way legal. And you have to think you're going to have to be 21 and older to consume it that leaves all the highschool stoners left to consume the blackmarket goods .

dry county folks and high school kids wont consume black market weed just like they dont really drink much moonshine.

 

[mojave green]

...high school kids wont consume black market weed just like they dont really drink much moonshine.

whaat? they been raised on black market weed.

 

[Coconutz]

Jesus christ, thats gotta be around 30-40¢/kWh?

Its 26-32 in LA on SCE TOU program.
Was 35 during winter before I joined TOU

 

[mojave green]

yup, cali elec is expensive as fook!

 

[tleaf jr.]

whaat? they been raised on black market weed.

lol right I remember living in Indy ...all those kids did was consume shitty weed and they introduced me to moonshine .

 

[DHF]

Well guys.....I can put shit into perspective for you since I`ve been retired and shut down for almost 5 yrs with all my ill-gotten gains washed with taxes paid on em , even if the statute of limitations ain`t over in my Hell of the dirty south where I worked smarter and not harder croppin my ass off outside for 12 and another 20 inside....but.....

I did run a small const co to pay taxes with and stay grounded....that said....

First off , I HAD to fly under the radar and utilize flip rooms and perpetual harvest where power useage was 24/7 instead of power surges every 12 hrs the power co AND Leo looked for daily round my parts , and with the onset of smart meters it just made sense to stay small , roll perpetual with several locations , and Harvey every month+/- for continuous income to pay the production bills ....IOW.....

10 crops +/- from each location x 5 when I was running ebb and flow buckets , and x 4 when I ran vert rack rooms before retirement cuz returns were more and made up for not having to roll another location .....

Since this is a price thread I`ll bust many folks bubbles cuz I wholesaled my shit out at 2K per unit to 1 guy that NEVER knew I grew , and was told it came from a close relative in Cali every month or so to insulate myself from cultivation charges that most assuredly bring life without the possibility of parole to the table if caught , so again....

I worked smarter and not harder , but I`m pretty sure he only got in the low 3`s himself cuz he wasn`t greedy and let volume take over with 10-12 lbs per month x several locations.....now....

I only ran 3600 watts per location with total equipment monthly power draw in the $250-300 range at empty homes I bought in foreclosure to remodel and grow my ass off for 1 yr before moving on to another 1 so as to not get complacent and push my luck , so ...

5-6 lbs per month once the ball was rolling perpetually not only paid for the house by the time I was done working on it a yr later , but handled the mortgage payments and power bills to boot , all the while building a "legal" real estate portfolio legacy for my son to fall back on after I`m gone , so guys.....

I could go on and on about how to diversify as a small grower entrepreneur in med-ville and make shit work from a market standpoint , but I know real estate prices and power`s higher than where I live , so .....

I`ll digress and just put it out there about folks that`ve been getting outrageous amounts of money growin dope in "illegal" states for as many yrs as I have should`ve WELL had enough cash to retire on or move to the promised land and set up operations for retail sales , as well as production facilities to provide product for said retail outlets as the market evolves instead of waiting for prices to drop and put em out of business where they need a real job heaven forbid....and lastly.....

If you grow dope and haveta back through a door at a dispensary to sell it fully bent over to pay your bills , you need other sources of income cuz you`re not gonna make it in the yrs to come....Me ?...

Got enough rental income property that gives me well over 6 figures a yr over and above maintenance and upkeep as well as everything I own paid for , and I`m not rich , but my son will be some of these yrs when I`m gone , and it was by usin my head instead of stayin stoned while time passed me by.....

No reason for old heads in Cali NOT to be rich and well fed from all the opportunities they`ve had right under their noses all these yrs regardless of power and real estate costs , cuz shit`s been legal there for as long as I cropped here in Hell ....and...

I`ve got several old friends that own wineries . distilleries , large producing farms , and many more viable businesses , but all you younger folks will haveta learn howta work smarter not harder or get a real job , or buy your dope from where you can if you can`t afford to grow it and prosper....I`m just sayin....

The opportunity will ALWAYS be there as stated above as far as marketing micro-brewery buds compared to Anheuser Busch commercial schwag , but it`s up to you to do it cuz price depends on what you can get , not what it`s sold for at the corner Quik-Mart in yrs to come....

My production costs never entered into the equation due to perpetual harvests that at some point in the game take over ALL expenses incurred on a monthly basis , and roll over into positive cash flow FTW...

Peace....DHF........

 

[Yes4Prop215]

Jesus christ, thats gotta be around 30-40¢/kWh?

yea PGE is fuckin rapine growers, tier1 is pretty cheap at around 13 cents a kWh but it quickly balloons into tier 4 which is 34 cents a kwh. thats for residential growing, if you have commercial they have baseline around 19cents a kWh. not sure if theres any other way to get cheaper power besides installing solar panels or bypassing the meter...


sometimes I'm so pissed i wasted 4 years on college before starting growing. if i had started this shit just 2-4 years earlier than i did i could be retired by now. a 250k outdoor harvest in 2013 would have been 500k in 2010, and up to 700k in 2008.

 

[MJPassion]

dry county folks and high school kids wont consume black market weed just like they dont really drink much moonshine.

Hehe... ^^^now that's a completely uneducated statement...

All the high school kids I know drink moonshine & microbrews... & smoke dryland grown pot...

Budwiser sucks as does coors...
&
The black market is NOT going anywhere any time soon.

 

[MJPassion]

I'm not sure its fair to add your mortgage expensed ad part of your grow cost... That is, unless the place was purchaded specifically for the purpose of growing & you don't live there...

Even then... $500+ production cost per pound seems a little steep.

Also, if you only spend $500/lb on production and you are making $1500 & are still broke... Maybe its time for you to look at your budget and see where you can cut expenses... like eat at home instead of going out so much caues you're to lazy to cook for yourself.

 

[surfguitar]

sometimes I'm so pissed i wasted 4 years on college before starting growing. if i had started this shit just 2-4 years earlier than i did i could be retired by now. a 250k outdoor harvest in 2013 would have been 500k in 2010, and up to 700k in 2008.

Haha I feel ya man, I was in the game back in 2008 but decided to pursue other stuff and put growing to the side. Bummed I didn't take more advantage back then. On the bright side I thill there's still tons of opportunity if you're smart, just gotta learn to use real business tactics to your advantage. No more Ezmode grow og and get 4k/unit

 

[stasis]

It is amazing how poorly the market sank after 2007..

If One did not have people to ship to - or high-end clients wanting the best, and willing to pay for it - then PG&E are the only ones who made any money.

 

[Little Hill]

sometimes I'm so pissed i wasted 4 years on college before starting growing. if i had started this shit just 2-4 years earlier than i did i could be retired by now. a 250k outdoor harvest in 2013 would have been 500k in 2010, and up to 700k in 2008.

I feel you on that one but I did learn how to grow in college and was never broke. Also we could not do as large of full sun grows back then, especially in mendo. So we work harder for the same amount. Im down for that. Learning all those lessons while prices were high made it that much easier. Talking to an indoor buddy in the Bay he is still getting over 3k for nonkush occasionally. He says a lot of the rif raf growers have been forced out do to a rush a year or two ago.

Price wise in the Triagle I'm seeing 1500 just like the last few year but it is much harder and moving slower. most are seeing 12-1300. 1800 for greenhouse OG. It might all have to be Greenhouse og in 2 years. I see a price drop next year or even sooner come dep season as long as people have water. March is looking to be wet and maybe April too so I don't think it will be as bad as I'd hoped. 2 things are remaining constant, bulk buyers will be struggling to fill orders come summer, and Cali outdoor will always be cheaper than CO indoor.

 

[snooze]

Mortgage isn't an expense. You build equity, only the interest is considered expense. The rest becomes an asset while reducing your liability (increase in equity). Sorry but I had to point that out.

It will be interesting to see how it all pans out. Eventually there will be a macro/micro relationship and the consumers will determine when this happens. Remember only 15-20 you could count the micro breweries on one hand. Now look

The consumer side of me is willing to pay the extra $ for some exotic 20+ week flowering sativa but when I tell people you gotta pay double for people to produce these exotics they think I'm out of my mind.

Until consumers become educated we will be stuck in the world of 8-11 week flowering strains with the same diesel og whatever is popular tag lines. When's the last time you saw someone offering up an exotic Thai sativa or some African land race (sans Durban). Exactly. Close to never if you're under 50.

 

[snooze]

The clubs in San Francisco have the very best weed you can get in the world, period.

They are the only ones (and people in the entertainment industry) that will still pay over $3000 for the A+ grade stuff.

Yes, the 1/8th it out at $60 per, but your not gonna find any better anywhere unless you are in the inner circle of your pot community.

Not only that, but weed in stores in CA has to be tested for molds and residual poisons as well as cannabinoid content. Does your dealer do that?

Best in the world?? Ya right! Good one. I've been to sf so many times gotten from so many different clubs and have gotten stuff I don't even consider palatable. Gross tasting non flushed stays black in the bowl bud and machine trimmed. Blah! Once in a while you get decent batches.

 

[Bo Hasset]

Well, you might be right about
I'd wait and see what's coming before you get too stuck on the "the way we've always done it" bandwagon. For a medical grower, legalization is horrible. We're going to get cut out of the market quicklike in my state. For a smoker though nothing better can happen than this IMO.

I couldn't agree more, and it's something I feel conflicted about often. I want the so-called "bad guys" to still be able to make loot, or the people soley on the MMJ side, but neither can do that if it's 100% legal for recreation as well. I used to be a "bad guy" is why, I suppose...

MMJ opened the floodgates for price dropping across the board, but, and this is in the infinitesimally small niche I have the pleasure of observing, prices have somewhat stabilized to anywhere from $1000-1600 locally and depending on the season and who you know. People from out of state who travel to med-states (let's be real... I'm talking CA, OR and CO... and I guess WA, too ) to buy in bulk and drive it back themselves pay what they want to pay or have been locked in at for years it seems.

And by that I just mean that I see friends unload a 100 pack at $2500/unit to the guy from Oklahoma, but the guy from Florida might come in and get the same 100 pack at $1800. I don't ask any questions or pretend to understand it all, but that's what I see.

For the guys crazy enough to still be in the home delivery business, if you know what I mean, the price seems to be whatever the fuck they say it is for the many risks they take. As someone who's been between CO and CA for over a decade now I have to agree with the poster that said if you haven't already got your 6-figures stashed in a Foldgers can or two, then you're probably just spinning your wheels and have nowhere else to go or nothing else to do.

I'm glad I had the fun I had when I had it, but I'm out and with not much to show for any of it. I'm over 30 and whenever this topic comes up I always lament that if I had only been born 10 or 20 years earlier.

I'd love to have made the mistakes in growing and in life that I did in my 20's, and then have the mid-80's until about 5 years ago to fine tune it all and suck every last penny out of the commercial side of ethical growing if there is such a thing.

I come from a long line of moonshiners, growers, movers, shakers, crooks and general neerdowells (of the best kind, though and I mean that all lovingly, but every description is true). I would have been unstoppable if I knew then what I know now and this was 1986, a whole 10 years before prop-215.

I might be almost as famous today as Tom Hill or somebody.

(that was with nothing, but respect... even though I grow for myself and mother only now I still soak up everything the man has to say/write and try to implement what my small brain absorbed)

I'm off to Afghanica land to catch some sleep. This was a good thread to go with my nightcap. Goodnight, phriends.

 

[cannawarrior]

I don't see how 'med' growers are getting 3k and less, 1000???, for the buds they tend to oh so well when the state I live in packs move for 3k regardless of a fancy name. I understand it's legal and all but that sounds like robbery to me.

 

[SirStynkalot]

supply and demand. Literally everyone around here grows "medical" weed. Don't know how many people I know who get their egos all stoked up because they grow bud that admittedly would have sold well about 10 years ago, but these days is only good for making into hash. LOTS of hard feelings when someone works for 3 months on a crop and then can't sell it. But the truth is the only stores that are thriving around here are the dispensaries, hydro shops and titty coffee stands.

For the record for full pounds you usually get about 2k black market and a bit under from dispensaries. The local black market just can't support the "Medical" growers so they have to sell to dispensaries where they get railed WAY harder than anyone will be under the new legal system. Prices are LOOOOOW unless you're moving absolute top shelf nuggage. We're talking 18% THC minimum. Then they're only low.

For the record medical's getting shut down around here. Senate just voted 2 days ago. Sucks for me personally but I couldn't be happier since a LOT more people are going to get a lot better product for the same price.

 

[SirStynkalot]

Mortgage isn't an expense. You build equity, only the interest is considered expense. The rest becomes an asset while reducing your liability (increase in equity). Sorry but I had to point that out.

It will be interesting to see how it all pans out. Eventually there will be a macro/micro relationship and the consumers will determine when this happens. Remember only 15-20 you could count the micro breweries on one hand. Now look

The consumer side of me is willing to pay the extra $ for some exotic 20+ week flowering sativa but when I tell people you gotta pay double for people to produce these exotics they think I'm out of my mind.

Until consumers become educated we will be stuck in the world of 8-11 week flowering strains with the same diesel og whatever is popular tag lines. When's the last time you saw someone offering up an exotic Thai sativa or some African land race (sans Durban). Exactly. Close to never if you're under 50.

What I've seen in my market is that there's a limited group who understands marijuana growing, and THOSE are the ones who will pay 15 a gram instead of 10 and it's pretty strictly based on bag appeal. You have to understand weed extremely well (or think you do) to justify paying half again. Most consumers don't.

I've seen some 12-14 week strains on the shelves (admittedly extremely rarely) but they usually go for 10 a gram as well. Not enough people realize that they're unique or that there are different effects in marijuana than "indica weed" or "sativa weed." Got one guy I know who swears up and down that all purple weed tastes and smokes the same. That's the kind of criteria uneducated consumers go by.

Luckily with legalization chemical content testing is going to be required. I think over time the mediocre legal growers are going to get culled out just because the numbers they have to put on their packaging are going to serve as their own bag appeal. The market doesn't have to be educated if they're being told EXACTLY what's in their weeds by people who do know what they're looking at.

And in response to your last question, again, rarely. I've seen Destroyer, a 12 week c99 pheno, and a 12 week thai pheno in the last 4 months. Seen an ungodly number of hazes too but those are usually cut at 10 whether they want it or not. That's about it. It's a real friggin shame.

 

[pugnacious]

It's been a very long time posting here. I can't believe Its been almost 10 years since OG was shut down and I migrated over here.

For those who don't know me. I own a MMJ Collective in Los Angeles. Pre-ICO. I'll save my local political rants for another time and get straight to the point. It is flooded and has been flooded down here for about 2 years now. Prices for outdoor to collectives are now at 1000-1200 for very good outdoor and 2000-2800 for indoor. Depending on quantity bought. In LA, almost all collectives have been hurt in sales because of political drama down here the past few years. Mainly because most do not advertise anymore. If you are a grower trying to sell your meds, it's extremely tough. Because of the laws every place is trying to grow their own right now.