So the EPA Contacted me today....

[rasputin]

How about my fucking shoe? I kill the hell out of ants, worms, bugs and insects with my shoes.

So, register every pair of shoes in the USA as a pesticide with the EPA?

Even better, how about I shove my boot up that EPA bastards ass?
Damn! Ignorance and stupidity are rampant in government and big corporations.
We all stand with you ESO.
Burn1

Yeah, that sounds like a brilliant idea. Assault a federal employee because he is upholding the law and holding commercial entities to account for claims made while promoting a product. Not to mention the fact that there are a dozen government agencies who deserve a good kick in the ass before the EPA, like the SEC or the DEA. Got any other gems for us, BurnOne?

Just for shits and giggles I checked the EPA Pesticide Registration Manual. It is very straight forward, surprisingly. Not much government mumbo jumbo, just a fairly standard break down of what is and isn't a pesticide and how they go about registering what is. It includes this interesting blurb which addresses the stated concern about shoes being regulated as pesticides...

Items that depend more upon the performance of a person than on the performance of the device itself (e.g., flyswatters or shoes (I added the italicized bit) are considered devices but are not subject to regulation.

If you fellas don't like how the EPA regulates pesticides and have so much piss and vinegar to burn, why don't you challenge the existing laws on the books instead of making empty threats and silly, myopic comments about freedom and government?

Or maybe you could stop and consider just why the existing laws are in place and enforced in such a way. Y'know, look beyond your own narrow self interests for a second...

Just my proverbial 2 cents.

 

[smokeetreatz]

Greetings E.S.O. the pestcontrol business is a tricky one in regards to the vernacular of the labels. Have you looked at the FIFRA exemption status?? All of your ingredients need to match the list of 25b ingredients to be exempt. This regulation has to do with regulating nasty chemical compounds. Their are some very helpful people that can assist with the process. Brian S at the E.P.A. is really good guy and very helpful. Highly recommend making friends with the gatekeepers, if you want to see your products. PM me if you have any questions, Peace

 

[cheifnugget]

Very unfortunate that this is someone's job ....I would think a pesticide should be defined as a man made chemical designed to fight controller or prevent pests ...Good luck

 

[TimeKeeper]

All right let's get to the heart of this so that this thread can come to an end.

No one won, or lost. No I don't want to change my labels. No I don't want to withhold the "truth" about products because a Government official has come knocking on my door.

This is just one thing in a long list of things that has happened in this business. I don't make 1 dollar from this business. I do it because I like to grow plants, and help people grow plants.

I have been working 7 days per week for over 6 months now. The EPA is just the straw that broke the camel's back. I am not throwing in the towel, or letting someone win.

We have another very profitable business. It is in the same industry, and we deal with a lot of the same people. I have also been filming a cannabis related web series when I can make time.

So I had to step back, and decide which things I would continue to do. This business was at the bottom of the list on things to continue to do.

With the closing of this business I can focus more on our profitable business, my web series, and doing consulting work.

I don't think anyone would choose to continue to work 7 days a week for free when I can work much less, and bring in a way more money.

Keep in mind I know how to grow plants, and I live in Denver.

I will now be exiting this thread. I appreciate everyone's advise(good, and bad), and if anyone in Colorado ever needs help with their garden I am always available for free consulting services.

Unless you own a dispensary, and then you gotta pay for that shit.

It's been real.

If I had a dispensary why in the hell would I want you to consult for me? You can't even handle your own business selling organic products. If you think the EPA is bad for wanting you to be in compliance with your labeling how are you going to handle the MED regulations? You think you are special because you can grow plants. Well I hate to burst your bubble but CO is full of people who can grow. If you want to make it in the legal cannabis game it takes A LOT more than just growing plants. But I guess you already knew that, just like you knew you had to register your products. Good luck to you, your going to need it.

 

[h.h.]

First I have to apologize to everybody. I got a little hyped up yesterday. That's my passion.
To further my point...

I agree not to file suit or initiate any claims procedure against Eureka Springs Organics, it's staff, representatives, or any other Company directly associated with Eureka Springs Organics L.L.C. in connection with injury, loss, or damages arising from the purchase of products from www.eurekaspringsorganics.com or the use of it's website. I also agree that I will not commit any crimes with the use of products purchased form Eureka Spring Organics, www.eurekaspringsorganics.com, Eureka Springs Organics L.L.C., and any company directly related to said Companies, and or any representatives of said Companies. This would include local, State, Federal, and International laws.

That protects the company from me. What protects me from the company? The bro factor? We're going to get chummy now? That's kind of missing from the above quote.
The company is an LLC. That means limited liability. If it's a bad product and causes harm, the company is protected.
The government is fucked up. Some employees are passionate, some are not. They are not the ones to blame for the laws though. We are. If there is change to be made and you are passionate about it, you work for change. You don't wait until it becomes a personal hassle. At that point it's just a tantrum. A personal pp.
You say that pot is legal in Denver? You're quite welcome. It's "been a long time coming" or should I say
"the police in Denver don't like them long hairs hanging round..."

I want to amend this with some practical advice.
First I'm a licensed contractor in the state of California. I've also worked teaching others how to pass the test. I also have all my EPA certifications for handling refrigerants. I've dealt with rules regulations, bull shit government tests, I'm bonded, insured...It's all a bunch of crap, all designed to take my money and my mind. All this to insure that the customer is taken care of.
Mostly I deal with a lot of inspectors. I have no problems with any of them. Their job is not only to protect the customer, it is also to protect me. They allow me to do a good job without being out competed by those with low quality standards. The help keep the shysters out of my business. They help keep the shysters out of your business as well. In both cases, I wish they would do a better job of it.

 

[soil margin]

Whole bunch of pussies in this thread telling OP to cave. This is why the EPA has so much power, because like the people in this thread, most Americans have no balls and turn tail and run the first second they see anyone from a govt. agency.


"It's stupid, but just do it anyways because the man tells us to."

Go to communist Russia or North Korea if you traitorous scumbags want to live in that kind of society.

 

[Granger2]

I think the OGBioWar ingredients that have been posted are 2 lists, 1 for the foliar pack, 1 for the root pack. No where on the packaging nor on the website does Cap make claims about insect or disease control. He is going thru the process to be able to do so, but that will take awhile. Till then, I'll keep using OGBW products because they contain organisms that some people think are beneficial. -granger
http://ogbiowar.com/

SoilMargin said: "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Go to communist Russia or North Korea if you traitorous scumbags want to live in that kind of society."

Hmmm... only 2 choices- N. Korea or Somalia. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yeah, Einstein. [/FONT]Thanks for sharing your "wisdom." lol
[/FONT]

 

[MiMedicineMan]

Cant you just say something like it "creates a harsh habitat for stuff?" or make it more broad so its not just for insects?

kills all animals!!!

animal killers are probably regulated too lol

 

[aridbud]

Proactive instead of reactive. Get the EPA manual, STUDY IT, then ask questions about relabeling it...."they" aren't out to GET YOU....it's protection for all....simple.

 

[MiMedicineMan]

im not saying play by their rules im saying make your own rules that are better than theirs

 

[rives]

Whole bunch of pussies in this thread telling OP to cave. This is why the EPA has so much power, because like the people in this thread, most Americans have no balls and turn tail and run the first second they see anyone from a govt. agency.


"It's stupid, but just do it anyways because the man tells us to."

Go to communist Russia or North Korea if you traitorous scumbags want to live in that kind of society.

We have a winner!!! Here we have it folks - the stupidest addition to ICMAG in recent history.

As HH pointed out above, these laws are to protect the consumer from unscrupulous (or blissfully ignorant) companies, which is a good thing. I'm sure that our little group of closet anarchists doesn't think that Dow should be peddling nuclear-option bug killers and calling it "organic". These same laws will encompass products like this - how are the regulatory agencies supposed to differentiate between the two if they don't check them out? The length of the vendor's hair? Perhaps whether or not they are members on ICMAG?

I used to deal with regulatory agencies on a very frequent basis. One of them included a CalOSHA pressure-vessel inspection that came to the plant site every few years to make sure that any pressurized vessels (air compressor tanks, etc) were compliant. Of course, we had numerous welders who were offended that anyone could possibly question the integrity of their welds ("I can weld anything except the crack of dawn and a broken heart...."). I asked the guy how he dealt with this bullshit on a daily basis. He said that he just showed them his personal scrapbook and they usually became believers. His little binder had pictures full of compressor tanks that had blown up, and the resultant carnage. The one that made the most vivid impression on me was a picture of a mobile heavy-equipment mechanic's truck sitting in a mall parking lot. The compressor was mounted crosswise immediately behind the truck's cab, as most of them are. The modified tank had blown up, and killed the mechanic in the driver's seat. Unfortunately, it had also killed the young mother that was in the van parked beside him.

These laws are in place to protect the public. Most of them have been bought and paid for in blood or environmental disasters well before they have been implemented. Soil Margin, I would suggest that you move to China - they don't have much use for environmental protection, or their populace, either.

 

[Arthritis_sucks]

Whole bunch of pussies in this thread telling OP to cave. This is why the EPA has so much power, because like the people in this thread, most Americans have no balls and turn tail and run the first second they see anyone from a govt. agency.


"It's stupid, but just do it anyways because the man tells us to."

Go to communist Russia or North Korea if you traitorous scumbags want to live in that kind of society.

My Official No Vote........

Join the Game an Change it! Stop whining about it an do something.

 

[RB56]

The sad irony is the people screaming the loudest for exploitation are the ones who are going to be exploited, not the ones who will benefit from the exploitation. Brilliant, but perverse beyond words.

 

[Microbeman]

Avannish; Thank you for posting the list of ingredients;

Bacillus thurengiensis kurstaki
Bacillus thuringiensis israelienses
Beavaria bassiane
Bavaria brongniartii
Saccharopolyspora Espinosa
Metarhizium anisopliae
Verticillium lecanii
Ampelomyces quisqalis
Rhodospirrulum rubrum
Rhodopseudomonas palustris
70% inert ingredients pharmaceutical grade talc

And Eureka thank you for the secondary list;

Bacillus subtilis
Azobacter chroococcum
Pseudomonas fluorescens
Pseudomonas chlororaphis
Rhodopseudomonas palustris
Rhodospirillum rubrum
Beijerinckia indica
99% talcum

Then we have Granger's input that the first list is the foliar and the second the root pack. This does make sense as the microbes in the second list are known 'nutrient stimulators'

If we go to the first list, there are several pesticidal type ingredients;

1/ Metarhizium anisopliae; a fungi attacking/killing mostly arthropods
http://www.biocontrol.entomology.cornell.edu/pathogens/Metarhizium.html
Seems relatevely safe;
http://www.mgshort.com/images/met52_granular_bioinsecticide_expires03-01-2013.pdf

2/ Bacillus thurengiensis kurstaki & Bacillus thuringiensis israelienses
Two types of commonly referred to as Bt. They are relatively safe pesticidal bacteria effecting a fairly narrow scope of insects, which (AFAIK) ingest the spore and die.

http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/24d-captan/bt-ext.html
http://www.certisusa.com/pdf-msds/deliver-wg-msds.pdf

3/ Saccharopolyspora Espinosa; otherwise known as Spinosad is a highly effective broad spectrum insecticide (AFAIK). It is recommended for severe infestation but not recommended for ongoing use (IMO). It is harmful to bees, used outdoors. Orally it works great for fleas in dogs (IME) [Comfortis]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3133185/pdf/zjb3150.pdf

http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLiteratureDOWCOM/dh_014a/0901b8038014a09b.pdf?file

I do not have any idea of the safety nor efficacy of mixing these active ingredients.

Perhaps someone can locate research on this.

 

[MiMedicineMan]

spinosad - all you need is one good shot - for thrips that is. I don't notice that it kills anything else

I use Monterey spray and it works great
I used captain Jack once and it burned all the plants

 

[h.h.]

Whole bunch of pussies in this thread telling OP to cave. This is why the EPA has so much power, because like the people in this thread, most Americans have no balls and turn tail and run the first second they see anyone from a govt. agency.


"It's stupid, but just do it anyways because the man tells us to."

Go to communist Russia or North Korea if you traitorous scumbags want to live in that kind of society.

"The man" LOL
Your mom must have grounded you again.

 

[ct guy2]

spinosad - all you need is one good shot - for thrips that is. I don't notice that it kills anything else

I use Monterey spray and it works great
I used captain Jack once and it burned all the plants

That's strange considering the Captain Jack has much lower levels of spinosad and active ingredients.

 

[BurnOne]

Yeah, that sounds like a brilliant idea. Assault a federal employee because he is upholding the law and holding commercial entities to account for claims made while promoting a product. Not to mention the fact that there are a dozen government agencies who deserve a good kick in the ass before the EPA, like the SEC or the DEA. Got any other gems for us, BurnOne?

Just for shits and giggles I checked the EPA Pesticide Registration Manual. It is very straight forward, surprisingly. Not much government mumbo jumbo, just a fairly standard break down of what is and isn't a pesticide and how they go about registering what is. It includes this interesting blurb which addresses the stated concern about shoes being regulated as pesticides...

If you fellas don't like how the EPA regulates pesticides and have so much piss and vinegar to burn, why don't you challenge the existing laws on the books instead of making empty threats and silly, myopic comments about freedom and government?

Or maybe you could stop and consider just why the existing laws are in place and enforced in such a way. Y'know, look beyond your own narrow self interests for a second...

Just my proverbial 2 cents.

You're right Rasputin. I was just pissed off that they would have the time to go after the little guy trying to squeeze out a modest living while billionaires litigate and piss away more money on red tape in a month dealing in their poison than ESO will ever make in his worthy business venture. But the products mentioned here will only go on small gardens. I can't imagine anything over a square acre. Probably more like 100 square feet.
I heard Tommy Chong say in a radio interview on NPR that his next door neighbor was a federal defense attorney. They were chatting after Tommy got busted for selling Chong's Bongs. His neighbor told him to just go ahead and plead guilty and do the time. You NEVER beat the Feds.
And I agree that the EPA didn't just stumble across this small business. They were ratted out. Fucking shame.
Burn1

 

[Heusinomics]

Huge props and big respect to Eureca O.
Thanks for all your dedication and efforts, both here on the boards and in running such a fantastic and much needed biz! Simply huge.
It's clear that you are verry passonate about organics and fine cannibis!

I'd love to stock up on some of your quality amandments befor I'm stuck w a second choice provider. As well as help out clearing your stock and easing your stress.
Hav u made any decisions on that "DISCOUNT CODE" you mentioned posting?

I'm sure many of us will take advantage, and appreciate it!
All the best.

 

[silver hawaiian]

I was hoping to find the culprit ogbiowar packs on the ESO site (at a fire sale, if that's indeed what's happening), but maybe they've been removed/sold out already..?

ESO, any word on the availability?