Machine abused Nugs...

[Chimera]

Automatic trimmers are a fact of life - once the grow hits a certain size, it's inevitable. If everyone using a trimmer is a hack, then every commercial grow is a hack. If you think the future of commercial cannabis production lies in the hands of human trimmers, you are out of touch with reality.

'Boutique', 'Reserve', hand trimmed selections? Perhaps. I bet you the fan leaves are removed with trimpro-style tabletop processors though, business/profit = high throughput.

 

[Snype]

I've been hand trimming for over 20 years but I'm considering buying a Twister. Trimmers are becoming a huge security risk and it's very hard to find good trimmers who will work on $200 a unit. I have between 30 and 40 pounds that need to be trimmed every 2.5 months and a new operation that will soon product another 32 pounds every 2.5 months which should be at least 60 pounds per harvest. There's no way I can have this hand trimmed. I hate the idea of machine trimmers but I don't believe there's another option. People around my way don't want to pay the expense for hand trimmed. They would rather have lower prices. I'll still hand trim tops though.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

snype try the de-leafer method it works great and speeds things up nicely. its definitely worth trying over a twister, the twister is the most notorious machine for abusing the nugs, it will slice off calyxes at a much higher rate than even a trim pro rotor. and yeah tops always get the hand trim..its the onslaught of popcorn and smaller nugs that really take up time. trim pros work great on smaller pieces..…I've seen some surprising results from the washing machine style dry trimmers we are buying a small one to test out on some product.

plus with everybody turning their harvests into wax these days trim machines are great for de-leafing most of the larf and getting it ready for extraction...

and yup snype i hear you 100%, none of my people will pay extra for hand trimmed. they dont seem to care or notice one bit, i literally only know one person who is all about hand trimmed and they grow all their own buds, and it takes them 3-4 months to process one harvest lol. it takes so long to hand trim everything that they end up getting stale by the time they are finally processed.

its about speed and efficiency up here on the mountain, when you have so much herb you want it bagged up and moved asap, sitting on such a large amount of herb is a huge security risk, both for cops and rippers. i guess idiots like shiva would rather we toil away for months risking our entire summer crop, just to hand trim and get lowballed in the end.

if most of the market prefers the cheaper ticket, then why would anybody pay the extra money and spend the extra to hand trim if they are getting the same damn end price?? if you have a special market that pays you 400 dollars extra per LB for hand trimmed than ALL THE MORE POWER TO YOU! but if you are running a business and most of your clients prefer things a certain way, you have to provide them what they want or you go out of business.



blame the consumers not the growers….hating on the commercial grower for meeting the demands of his clients, simply because it doesn't correspond with your misguided ignorant views, makes you look like a brain dead idiot.

 

[Snype]

snype try the de-leafer method it works great and speeds things up nicely. its definitely worth trying over a twister, the twister is the most notorious machine for abusing the nugs, it will slice off calyxes at a much higher rate than even a trim pro rotor.

Can you explain this de-leafer method? The people in my areas want completely naked buds. They don't like any leaves at all. I also prefer wet trimming over dry trimming for the leaf shrinkage into the buds. So I guess the Twister is the wrong machine for me. Any suggestions on machines?

 

[Rabbi]

I understand the arguements from both sides but see machine trimming as more of a step toward progress. It may not be perfect right now but it will continuously get better.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

de-leafer are the basic table top grate style trimmers, its the same blade setup as a trim pro rotor just without the mixing bowl. i usually run 2-4 de-leafers with 1-2 workers per station and you can just mow through wet plants with the quickness. it only strips main fan leaves but it allows for the nugs to be cleaned up super easy. after de-leafing it was averaging my trimmers only a few hours to clean up each LB.

if you want to just toss wet buds into a trim machine and have them spit out nugs like a twister, i would look into that satellite system that was mentioned earlier. a basic trim pro rotor also works great just gotta keep a close eye on things and not them bounce around too long. a short bounce followed by hand trim clean up is the best balance if using a trim pro…if you leave the nugs in there too long or use too much oil you will notice a decline in quality. i dont really like trim machines and full wet trim, because you usually have to rack the buds and that decreases quality more than anything. a de-leaf followed by hang dry, then into bins and hand trim/de-stem clean up is the perfect balance IMO...

it also really depends on strains, i dont know any sour D or haze that would fare well in a machine trimmer due to their fluffier bud structure. machine trimmers really work perfect with large round dense colas, strains like Cherry Pie, Blue Dream, and bubba kush come out looking great.

 

[Abja Roots]

If you think the future of commercial cannabis production lies in the hands of human trimmers, you are out of touch with reality.

This hits the nail on the head. If you haven't run a big trim scene, then I doubt you have any idea what I'm talking about. There is no "real" business that just wants to make a decent profit. They want to make as much profit as possible. One of the easiest things to do is to cut out the trimmers. They are replaceable. There is no need to house 20 people, feed 20 people, water for 20 people, bathrooms for 20 people. It's not about doing it right. It's about doing what makes the most business sense.

Last year I de-leafed all my plants by hand in the field, then processed them by hand personally. My friends had the Table top deleafer that Yes4Prop is talking about. It works great when you have over 100 lbs to process. I did not use it, and no disrespect to Prop, but the quality of my finished herb is higher. I was also able to let my dream run longer than most of the dream you'll see. It was totally organic and processed as I felt it should be.

Still no one is paying me any more than what they are willing to pay for other herb out here. It's about the low ticket. Even if you are willing to pay more as the end user the broker will still buy the cheapest unit they feel they can sell for the largest margin. I paid $200/lb to have my herb hand trimmed, but that cost is not being recouped. I would have been better off machine trimming all the herb and selling it for 2 points less.

Also it takes longer to process by hand which increases the security risk, and trimmers are a liability.The days of the trimmers coming out and making a nice stack to party, travel, or go back to school with are over.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

haha this shiva is a real class act, dude is obviously here just to troll and get into fights with people, even when he has NO credibility to back it up. gets his card pulled so hard that he has to snitch to the mods and get the posts removed, even when those posts had over a dozen positive reps compared to his zero.

you have multiple large scale growers telling you that the consumer/brokers aren't willing to pay extra for hand trimmed. and yet you still want us to hand trim all our herb and spend more time to make less money, and call us lazy and greedy for not doing so. when you run a business you cater to your clients….if you have clients paying 400+ more per LB for hand trimmed than good for you! but most of us dont…just like abja said, barely anyone wants to pay an extra 200 per LB for "hand trimmed" they would rather take the cheaper ticket. AND YOU BLAME US THE GROWERS FOR THAT?

So fucking ignorant, have fun with your 4 plants shiva, thinking you somehow know what it takes to run commercial grows LOL!! keep on dreaming that you are somehow impacting the greater market for it lol….your stupid ideals have zero bearing on our business models. either learn something or continue to be an arrogant nobody. i am so fuckin sick of know it all closet growers who want to tell us how to do our job, GTF OUTTTTAA HERE!!!

 

[gaiusmarius]

seems to me people are missing one of the big problems with big groups of trimmers. some one compared it to baby sitting, they know what they are talking about. i hate to say it, but there is always a trust issue, all it takes is 1 bad choice and you have a potential snake inside your op.

i see many going to trimming the tops by hand and using trimming machines for the rest, this because hand trimming really leaves you a better product, it's not just the tumbling and the air flow with some of these trimmers, it more about the amount of leaf juice that gets released and spread all over the buds. i can always tell the smell of machine trimmed bud when it's fresh. once it has a cure the juice seems to evaporate and the buds real flavor comes out again. but yeah, a lot of people wouldn't mind employing the trimmers where i am, if only it wasn't such a risky and lengthy procedure. over the years i have seen and heard from friends, we have literally had trimmer break in over night and steal the still standing bud after the first of 3 days of trimming. there have been cases of blackmail, or then cases of the foreman nicking everyone's pay and disappearing with it all, lovers amongst the trimmers not able to work together without screwing up the vibe. each new trimmer has to be trusted and the fact of the matter is that many can not be trusted, so you have to have someone watching them all the time. then there is all the issues i can't even go into here. so yeah it's certainly not all as one sided as a certain poster would have you believe. maybe with full legality this will change, but with all the other hurdles to running a big op today i can fully understand those that said enough is enough. 3 trusted workers doing the job of 15 is an attractive proposition when you know all the facts.

 

[Snype]

de-leafer are the basic table top grate style trimmers, its the same blade setup as a trim pro rotor just without the mixing bowl. i usually run 2-4 de-leafers with 1-2 workers per station and you can just mow through wet plants with the quickness. it only strips main fan leaves but it allows for the nugs to be cleaned up super easy. after de-leafing it was averaging my trimmers only a few hours to clean up each LB.

if you want to just toss wet buds into a trim machine and have them spit out nugs like a twister, i would look into that satellite system that was mentioned earlier. a basic trim pro rotor also works great just gotta keep a close eye on things and not them bounce around too long. a short bounce followed by hand trim clean up is the best balance if using a trim pro…if you leave the nugs in there too long or use too much oil you will notice a decline in quality. i dont really like trim machines and full wet trim, because you usually have to rack the buds and that decreases quality more than anything. a de-leaf followed by hang dry, then into bins and hand trim/de-stem clean up is the perfect balance IMO...

it also really depends on strains, i dont know any sour D or haze that would fare well in a machine trimmer due to their fluffier bud structure. machine trimmers really work perfect with large round dense colas, strains like Cherry Pie, Blue Dream, and bubba kush come out looking great.

I don't think I want oil going on my buds from the machines. Do they all have to use oil? What about Bonsai Hero Electric Trimmers? Does anyone know if those will be faster and still have a good look to the product?

 

[Avinash.miles]

satellite does NOT use oil at all.

 

[theJointedOne]

i guess im still in a non beaster mind set. bc thats what most ( make sure you see i said most, not ALL, i know some of you have it down, but you are not the majority)of the people who use a twister are growing

but yesfor is right, thats what the masses want, natty ice, i guess there plenty of guys can give it to em


Chimera i hope your right in the fact that hand trimmed stuff IS worth more and deserves a better ticket. I mean wtf happened to this industry the past couple years, fuckin hell green rushers ruining this counter culture and making our states buds more like cheap ass beer..

if i could id go back in time and make sure the trimming machines were never invented

theres a song in the 707 about a woman vs. a trim machine, and how she wins, but dies in the process, yet her daughter is born and becomes an even better trimmer

fuck a trim machine, and rip to the art of trimming....

 

[Snype]

satellite does NOT use oil at all.

I just saw a Youtube video on the satellite. How many pound can 1 machine do per day on average? Can you be conservative in your estimate please.

 

[gaiusmarius]

I don't think I want oil going on my buds from the machines. Do they all have to use oil? What about Bonsai Hero Electric Trimmers? Does anyone know if those will be faster and still have a good look to the product?

i have worked with those bonsai hero trimmers and they are quite good, you will save about 50% of the time it normally takes you using these once you get used to them. they do not leave oil, nor do they leave the leaf juice all over the buds, nor do you get tumbled looking buds, in fact they are not a bad product, you just won't save as much time as with those fully automated trimming machines. there is also a hand held one with a vacuum attached that looks quite good, i just haven't tried that one myself though.

 

[gaiusmarius]

satelite looks like the machines used here a lot except no speakers and the grill isn't quite as nicely made as with the satelite. but to be honest if i was looking for a machine i'd take one of those flat table top machines with a big grill that you can just roll the branches over. they don't have a wind vortex and they dont tumble the buds around for minutes at a time spreading the juice. the table top ones will still save you a bunch of time, even if you have to have someone do a quick final clean up. they will still be faster then those hand held devices. still the table top ones also work with air suction to help the leaves get sucked into the grill so the blades can do the job, so you still lose some of the ripest trichome heads right off the bat.

 

[HydroManiac]

I guess trimming with a machine can't be helped when a grow becomes a size that can't be managed by hand trimming.

 

[Abja Roots]

Table top machines are the only ones I use. If you want to use the salad bowl style for the little nuggets that's totally understood as well. It works well for that.

At larger spots all the tops are run over the table top trimmer, hung to dry, and then chopped down to be trimmed.

If you don't have a small crew to help then I can totally understand the crazy trim machines. It gets the job done, albeit somewhat crudely. I imagine most everything will get turned into some form of an extract eventually. Easier to process, transport, store, and sell.

 

[TheRealHash]

Are scissors with springs better then regular scissors?

It's personal preference. Some like the spring, others don't. Some say the spring tires their hand out. Personally I opt for the spring. Normal scissors hurt my fingers after a while.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

would using table top even be considered "trimming machines" TJO? I'm not planning on running anything through a twister I've seen the results firsthand and its beaster for sure gets beat up. then when it gets turkey bagged the sap smell creates this generic stale fruity smell that makes every single strain smell the exact same. thats true CA beaster and the bottom end of the market out here, not my market though my clients still demand good bad appeal and quality.


table top merely de-leafs and unless you are mashing the colas into the grill they dont get beat up that bad at all. since its still on the branch you can hang dry instead of drying rack, which is also important as racks will flatten one side of the nug sometimes. its still half hand trimmed since i pay them to go through and clean everything up.

it also comes down to the exporters, for easy transport the herb needs to be dense and tight as possible. and the cheaper the unit the better since the margins are always the same. a lot of this CA twister trimmed outdoor is 100% destined for black market and not up the standards of the higher end local markets. even though surprisingly in most of CA's popular dispensaries i see lots of machine trimmed indoors even.

I'm trying as hard as possible to keep my quality in the top 20% and to not succumb to the beaster mindset. my bulk blue dream and green crack had really good golden trichomes and had great smell and bag appeal, amongst the clients BD was the preferred for price/quality which was a huge surprise i thought the sours/OG would fly faster, but the bins dont lie all the BD is moved and the nicer packs that i hand trimmed and tried to get a higher ticket out of are still there after 5 months.

 

[Avinash.miles]

I just saw a Youtube video on the satellite. How many pound can 1 machine do per day on average? Can you be conservative in your estimate please.

shit, if you had a CREW Prepping for the machine working ALL day, in a 10 hour day you could easily do 20 lbs dry in my opinion.
thats my conservative estimate.

satelite looks like the machines used here a lot except no speakers and the grill isn't quite as nicely made as with the satelite. but to be honest if i was looking for a machine i'd take one of those flat table top machines with a big grill that you can just roll the branches over. they don't have a wind vortex and they dont tumble the buds around for minutes at a time spreading the juice. the table top ones will still save you a bunch of time, even if you have to have someone do a quick final clean up. they will still be faster then those hand held devices. still the table top ones also work with air suction to help the leaves get sucked into the grill so the blades can do the job, so you still lose some of the ripest trichome heads right off the bat.

pretty sure you can kinda mod the sattrim to work like table top style, just take the entire plexi glass top off and its just a grate. OR take off the plexi boxes and you can stick nugs/branches thru the holes across grate, turn the fingers OFF and you can just use like table top.
it aint NEARLY as fast that way either.