High Brix soil grow

[milkyjoe]

This plant has a brix of 12. It is in a new soil that has not developed insect larva predators yet...these fungus gnats popped out of the soil, landed on these leaves and their life ended. It is the enzyme co factors that allow this to happen. I have no fear of insect or disease in these plants.

edit...the waxy look develops because the plant has formed a lot of phopho lipids...those will prevent fungus from being able to get to the Ca Pectate that it wants to feed on.

Brix is important, I agree, but there is more to plant health than simply brix is all I am saying.

 

[mohammed romney]

Absolutely agree on the vicissitudes of refractometer readings. Also agree sap analysis is gold standard. But using brix readings as a guide to plant nutrition is certainly useful and far more practical (for this community) than sending leaves off for tissue analysis. Brix readings are especially meaningful when a baseline and standard practices have been implemented. It is a tool of the trade in agriculture and horticulture because it is a valid instrument for measuring dissolved solids.

I've never seen a MJ grower use a bud (sugar sink) for a reading. I've taken plenty of leaf readings

"Leafs are not like fruits or seeds, they are not specific sugar sinks and as such are not gonna go much above a 12 no matter how much you wish it." You're mistaken. I have plants right now that are reading 15 and 17 on mid-plant leaves, petioles, ground in mortar and pestle, 1 day after watering. I tried photographing through the scope but it all appears gray. I'll try again next trim up.

 

[milkyjoe]

I look forward to seeing it. I wonder if grinding like that is an approved method. I would think it would leave chunks of leaf in the sap which would make the reading higher.

edit...btw, a bud on a non pollinated plant is not a sugar sink. K can carry sugar into the bud without being trapped itself, it recycles. True sugar sinks require extra K because they are essentially one way tickets for K.

 

[mohammed romney]

good info thanks. your leaves have the "look" as they say. are you a foliar feeding advocate?

 

[mohammed romney]

my brother @10:50 kempf talks about 16 brix leaves.

 

[c-ray]

^
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQDbkSn9rpo

 

[Cep]

View attachment 257103

This plant has a brix of 12. It is in a new soil that has not developed insect larva predators yet...these fungus gnats popped out of the soil, landed on these leaves and their life ended. It is the enzyme co factors that allow this to happen. I have no fear of insect or disease in these plants.

edit...the waxy look develops because the plant has formed a lot of phopho lipids...those will prevent fungus from being able to get to the Ca Pectate that it wants to feed on.

Brix is important, I agree, but there is more to plant health than simply brix is all I am saying.

It's weird, if you look back to post #49 in this thread on page 3 you'll see a 17 brix plant outdoors. That same plant can't get above 12 inside. I've had 13 inside, but that was only once and I've had 19 outside as a high mark. The user Veg N Out posted 22 or 24 for hist outdoor plants. I'm speculative if it's actually accurate brix readings. I guess I just have a hard time believing my canna leaves are on par with a properly grown cherry.

How are the fungus gnats dying on the leaves? I didn't think the adults fed on foliage.

Those are the plants from the room you mentioned right?

 

[bobblehead]

It's weird, if you look back to post #49 in this thread on page 3 you'll see a 17 brix plant outdoors. That same plant can't get above 12 inside. I've had 13 inside, but that was only once and I've had 19 outside as a high mark. The user Veg N Out posted 22 or 24 for hist outdoor plants. I'm speculative if it's actually accurate brix readings. I guess I just have a hard time believing my canna leaves are on par with a properly grown cherry.

How are the fungus gnats dying on the leaves? I didn't think the adults fed on foliage.

Those are the plants from the room you mentioned right?

Is squeezing 2-3 leaves in a clamp until sap starts to drip an accepted method? Veg/backyard farmer said that he used the spoon + clamp method. I just use a clamp like this:

IME the time of day has the most effect on BRIX. BRIX will be higher in the evening after a long day of photosynthesis than in the morning after much of the sugars produced have been stored in the roots and stems. Its important to measure BRIX at the same time of day, and I take note of what my tensiometer says about the moisture level in the soil. If the soil is too dry, its best to wait until after you water. If the soil is too moist, its best to give it some time to dry.

Like I said... Generally my BRIX is between 15-20, and I've been as high as 24. Its all relative.

 

[mohammed romney]

good info
ty BH

 

[milkyjoe]

It's weird, if you look back to post #49 in this thread on page 3 you'll see a 17 brix plant outdoors. That same plant can't get above 12 inside. I've had 13 inside, but that was only once and I've had 19 outside as a high mark. The user Veg N Out posted 22 or 24 for hist outdoor plants. I'm speculative if it's actually accurate brix readings. I guess I just have a hard time believing my canna leaves are on par with a properly grown cherry.

How are the fungus gnats dying on the leaves? I didn't think the adults fed on foliage.

I did not either. But I never saw them flying around at all...just came in one day and there they are on the leaf. Sooner or later that soil will develop these 1/2 inch centipede things that eat larva and this won't happen again.

Those are the plants from the room you mentioned right?

No, these are simply some plants in veg. Brand new soil.

Here is a room where I fucked around with minerals trying to change the balance of cytokinins vs auxins. Damn near stopped stretch. Now I just got to figure out how to get enough energy into the plants to fill out all the buds that formed.



edit...and yes I am a big fan of foliar feeding. I use Kempf and Albion stuff along with some microbiology from Tainio. I feel like damn few mj plants have been bred with any consideration for root development at all. So it is difficult to get enough nutrition with organic soil. Foliar allows you to fill in the gaps and provide some ultra trace stuff.

I like to try to balance my soil according to Albrecht ratios for base cation saturation. Plus 75 ppm P and S, 80 ppm or so Fe and Mn, 4 ppm Cu, 8 ppm Zn, 3 ppm B and 2 ppm Co.

 

[Cep]

Do you get the Cobalt from rock dust or Albion? I have to double check if my lab will test for that.

Man my Sulfur was stupid high (800+) last season. Wondering if the rains will bring it down is keeping me up at night!

 

[milkyjoe]

I got it as a sulfate salt, not hard to find. I think JH Biotec has it as an amino chelate/complex but I don't think Albion offers it. I also get it from kempf stuff (micropak and photomag).

That much sulfate will antagonize phosphate and nitrate but will eventually complex itself with cations and leach. You can foliar feed phosphate in the mean time.

 

[One2Lurk]

I've immersed myself in "high brix soil" articles recently. Having poured through quite a few articles and varying authors and contributors, it seems like a clear misnomer. That said, it may well have guided the organic movement in the right direction. I think as it matures, this concept will be a game changer. Not surprisingly, our closet hobby is lagging behind big Ag in some aspects. Amazing really that canna growers haven't adopted the practices of vineyards and orchards.

One thing I'm certain of, all the materials needed should be sourced as locally as possible. I struggle to believe that mid-continent growers NEED to source materials like kelp or crab meal to "optimize" their soil. I'm sure in time we will find suitable local amendments.

Brix. Where do we start with this? I'm not sure we have a good grasp yet as to its best means of testing cannabis, or standards of other growth techniques. For instance it seems to be both an indicator of health, and maturity of fruits. Is it also directly affected by the maturity of vegging plants? It seems like an almost insurmountable number of variable in brix testing procedures to establish any meaningful public database due to variability of tests, sites. Again, that said, I'm interested to know the brix levels of for instance plants grown with say an "organic" line of nutes like botanicare. Verses plants grown in the same environment with say an ionic fert, in soil, and hydro. Additionally, what (if any) brix level improvements are achievable with off the shelf foliar sprays such as the botanicare (liquid karma etc.) line? I'm interested in these as benchmarks if you will.

Another random thought. In designing this soil it seems weve had to compromise the lab by telling them to optimize the soil for other crops. Has any legal med grower attempted to obtain a profile optimized for cannabis? Or even possibly a general vegetable garden profile that's less specefic? I'm wondering if we're really dialing in the best profile from the start?

Keep up the good work. You guys ARE the front line. My gut tells me that good things will come following this path. Like a door has been opened to the next level.

 

[One2Lurk]

Subscribed.

 

[mohammed romney]

O2L,

i am just getting a grip on the HB practices. plants i am growing using the HB principles are plainly healthier than other plants i've grown (basic organic). the look more alive,brighter lighter green,more internodal space, vibrant roots.


it seems that creating a brix table for mj would be tricky because of variables but would it really be much different than the tables for other produce?

Id like to see a table of various strains brix readings along with a profile of its psychoactive properties and grow technique. A collection of data with those details could be a general frame of reference. and a fantasy

have you read much of the journals over at 420? folks seem to get good readings even when they deviate from the orthodoxy.

 

[milkyjoe]

Increased internode spacing is a sign that root growth is not dominant over shoot growth. It prevents the plant from taking in enough energy through the roots and results in a lot less bud set. Stretch is a very bad thing if it gets out of hand.

Not promoting this product but here is an explanation:

http://www.growbetterfood.com/products/sea-stim/

This is one reason I love foliars. Breeding of mj has not focused on root development. As a result we end up with these stretchy ass plants that cannot feed themselves. Foliar lets you get around that.

Here is another site where it gets explained (definitely not recommending this stuff...just talking about the cytokinin vs auxin deal). http://www.stollerusa.com/

 

[mohammed romney]

Thanks for the links. Informative.

I needed to get more internode spacing. Not sure what I was doing but my plants were squatty lil things that had ZERO stretch. Not sure if i screwed up with N or maybe kelp...water under the bridge.

The newest soil using the doc buds template is another story. These ladies are looking great. Different brighter color, better structure and glowing with life.

I use BioAg's PGR as a foliar for growth reg. and I use OND for soil drench.

My intention is to build a huge healthy root system. I believe I have it going on. The vegging plants get potted to 7 g in about 10-14 days. I'll reevaluate the roots at that time and take a few pics if warranted.

I feel amazingly relieved that I have the dwarf effect sorted out. Looking forward to a breakthrough with this batch and plotting a summer grow with fantastic genetics and well planned techniques.

 

[One2Lurk]

O2L,

i am just getting a grip on the HB practices. plants i am growing using the HB principles are plainly healthier than other plants i've grown (basic organic). the look more alive,brighter lighter green,more internodal space, vibrant roots.


it seems that creating a brix table for mj would be tricky because of variables but would it really be much different than the tables for other produce?

Id like to see a table of various strains brix readings along with a profile of its psychoactive properties and grow technique. A collection of data with those details could be a general frame of reference. and a fantasy

have you read much of the journals over at 420? folks seem to get good readings even when they deviate from the orthodoxy.

I've been reading Graytails cup winners in high brix, Curso, Of course Doc Bud and a few others. One fella forgot to bring any girls to the party lol (sorry I can't give proper credit). Could happen to any of us I guess.

Please feel free to link any suggested reading, and or the afore mentioned "deviations from orhodoxy". I'm very interested. Between "high brix", and the micro grows, I'm seriously tempted to set up a small grow again.

 

[mohammed romney]

I'll start collecting links but for a starter...Ice does not follow doc super closely. He used/uses a slightly different soil mix and he used way different foliar mixes and concentrations.

If you start out with the basics and learn on the fly always repeating the "less is more" mantra you'll have a ball and likely end up with some choice muggles.

Gray is not following DB verbatim either.

 

[One2Lurk]

By all means, start a new thread. Maybe titled "Cannabis high brix compendium". And leave it open for others to post links. I'll play...