High Brix soil grow

[Backyard Farmer]

Cep,

I recently spoke to our friend and had better luck explaining. I broke down that I give them 100 gallons per day and he was like , what we sent isn't going to do much is it?

I'm working on figuring out how many gallons the outdoor trial is going to take to do on 20 out of 100 individuals, I'm thinking 5 gallons of R and X and one packet per week of M5 and S but I haven't ran out the math yet...

@Rasputin
I just checked out the orthopurSi site. I'm going to try and contact them to find out how much more bioavailable it is compared to our alternatives. +Rep

@Milky
With the rejuvenate they want it applied with bioinoculants almost like it doesn't have any by itself, but I think they added a Tainio product before shipping.

@Backyard
I was describing the plant size to the guy and the initial answer I got was simply "Oh".

What they were going to supply in terms of foliar samples would've done one or two treatments on one row maybe.

I'm also trying to get my moms in perfect shape before taking cuts. Their products should help.

 

[Cep]

Milky, thats a beast for a 3 gallon. The first grow I did was a stadium with 4 1000's. I'd like to mess with a vert grow again.

Backyard, that sounds about right. I remember seeing pics of your mounds. I'm def going to get more soil up at my spot and probably have slightly smaller plants of the variety I can pull third week of September. I'll only need a gallon of both liquids and 5 or 6 packs of m and s that way.

I wonder how long it would've taken me to find Tainio and Kempf stuff If I were still just growing veggies.

 

[Cep]

@Rasputin

HorseTech sources their product from Eidon:
http://eidon.com/silicic_acid.html

It seems that silicic acid is stable at low concentrations in pure water and the difference in their product is that it simply doesn't contain Potassium.

 

[milkyjoe]

A weird fact...if you steam distill maple syrup you end up with about 300 ppm silicic that is extrememly beneficial to humans. Until then I just eat a teaspoon a day of red lake earth.

 

[xmobotx]

there's talk about the kempf stuff but, where do you even buy it?

what's product "R"? ~product x?

 

[Cep]

http://growbetterfood.com/products/

Give them a ring.

 

[milkyjoe]

there's talk about the kempf stuff but, where do you even buy it?

what's product "R"? ~product x?

It is some test products. R contains mostly rejuvenate and X is a brand new product that you can now buy as Sea Protector.

Sea Protector is designed to strengthen cell walls and help make the plant more immune to fugal disease. Bunch of chitin, silica, a highly available Ca and an essential oil.

You won't believe the tiny amounts they recommend based on the sq ft of your grow.

edit...doh, it is actually called Sea Shield now

 

[h.h.]

leonardite, sea water, molasses, yucca, and seaweed from the Ohio Ocean.

 

[xmobotx]

sea protector/sea shield ~not seeing it; is it some insider product? there's "sea-crop {Mg/B} & there's "sea-stim" {N/P from kelp}

i'm a bit wary of photomag ~epsom salt & sea salt

milkyjoe, are you saying you use all 9 products as described in that product list linked above? this hi-brix thing has been a point of interest for me but, seems like people have secrets or something & there's just a barrage of well-sold products which look a little "not too special" w/ a little scrutiny. ~so that it's hard to find a starting point or figure out a test project w/o spending huge $$$ ~on molasses & kelp

WSDA only lists hypercap, photomag, PHT Ca & rejuvenate for use in WA BTW ~not as organic either

 

[mohammed romney]

x, you need to start with an analysis of your media.

the high brix method relies on particular soil mineral ratios and robust biology. the amendments and foliars that create the correct balances are formulated in relation to your soil composition.

 

[xmobotx]

like this?

CEC 16.29
pH 5.7
OM 34.39%
Su 38 ppm
P2O5 550 lbs/acre
Ca
desired 4430 49.79%
found 3244
deficit -1186
Mg
desired 469 13.81%
found 540
K
desired 508 3.89%
found 494
deficit -14
Na
found 189 2.52%

other bases 6%
xchng H 24%

micro in ppm:
boron .68
iron 85.
Manganese 9.
Copper .45
Zinc 7.18
Aluminum 154!

I adjusted that mix w/ some cal-phos & micros ~last summer. today, i find the mix too "hot" & cutting it by 1/2 w/ starter mix makes a pretty good level. i figure to test it again for further balancing & will probably opt for the paste test to find out more about the composition.

 

[milkyjoe]

sea protector/sea shield ~not seeing it; is it some insider product? there's "sea-crop {Mg/B} & there's "sea-stim" {N/P from kelp}

i'm a bit wary of photomag ~epsom salt & sea salt

milkyjoe, are you saying you use all 9 products as described in that product list linked above? this hi-brix thing has been a point of interest for me but, seems like people have secrets or something & there's just a barrage of well-sold products which look a little "not too special" w/ a little scrutiny. ~so that it's hard to find a starting point or figure out a test project w/o spending huge $$$ ~on molasses & kelp

WSDA only lists hypercap, photomag, PHT Ca & rejuvenate for use in WA BTW ~not as organic either

They are not the best at keeping up the site...but sea shield is available if you call them.

No I don't use them all. And you are right not all of them are really special...molasses is molasses. But a couple are...the Photomag, PHT-P and Sea Shield are all worth it in my book.

They are not necessarily organic...even micros are only approved organic with a test showing you need them. I am not a strict organic guy though, I could care less what is certified and what is not. If it does not murder microbes I am not opposed...so I don't use HyperCAP because the phosphoric acid will definitely kill fungi.

Your soil primarily needs two things. More Ca and less H (you want 10% base cation exchange saturation). So a good dose of Hi Cal Lime is the thing to use (or oyster shell). The Ca will drive the H off the exchange sites.

When you say hot I assume N....you gotta watch out with those starter things. I tested Happy Frog one time and it was stupid high in N and K.

You would also do well to spray some micros til you get those levels fixed in the soil. The micropak does not have Fe which wuold be good in your case. TM 7 is the other good one but it does have iron or you could go with Albion or JH Biotechs stuff.

If your soil is hot N wise PhotoMag is great cause it contains Mo which is part of the nitrate reductase enzyme...reduce nitrates in the plant and create protein.

You have a lot of organic matter. I would not bother with any humate products.

The sea crop and sea stim are to provide the ultra trace stuff that tends to be involved in enzyme production. I would not bother with that either until I had everything else close to dialed in. It can get you in trouble. And it is really to help fight insects/disease...so if you don't have those no real need.

Personally the two kempf things I would recommend anyone try are PhotoMag and Sea Shield. The rest, not bad but not totally special either.

 

[xmobotx]

the test is on this which also has some bentonite clay & basalt dust

2 parts peat {alaska}
1 part castings {marle}
1 part autozone floor dri

figured about 15 gallons {used a 4 gallon bucket for a 'part'}

and so {shot glass being about 3 TBS or less}

10 shots oyster shell {coarse}
5 shots gypsum
5 ea. of azomite, kelp, fish bone meal
1 shot humic {DTE}

 

[mohammed romney]

X if you already have the analysis and learned whats needed for the ideal media did you go ahead and follow the recommendations?

Would it make sense to re-sample the media once the amendments have been incorporated?

 

[xmobotx]

well, I'm further down the road i guess~ i tend to mix all un-used soil together & after adjusting/using what i actually used, the tested soil ended up mixed w/ more other soil.

i also based a soil "recipe" on my test & made a mix

1 gal pumice
1 gal oly fish compost
3 gal premier peat

6 TBS cal-phos
6 TBS gypsum
3 TBS crab meal
3 TBS kelp meal
3 TBS neem meal
6+ TBS alfalfa meal
3 TBS comfrey
3 TBS greensand

6 TBS basalt dust {1/8-}
6 TBS bentonite clay
3 TBS azomite

1/8 tsp borax
1/2 TBS DTE 2-0-1 Liqiud Micro Nutrient 2/2/2 Fe/Mn/Zn

today, i know that mix is @ least 2x hotter than necessary {it stunts plants of all sorts} i would use tsp in favor of TBS & have a very nice mix

 

[mohammed romney]

thanks for the followup. i am using doc buds basic recipe and i have stuff from HBH. i just started a new soil mix yesterday. plants that are about 5 weeks from seed are my best ever (new at this) using the same mix and foliars.

i am considering sending in a sample of my amended and aged mix to get some feedback from jon frank and his team...worth it?

 

[c-ray]

just out of curiousity
has anyone read the Beddoe books?
has anyone used the Lamotte STH-14 test kit to determine their soil nutrient availability?

 

[Harry Palmer]

Adding 1 cup of 6-5-3 to 2.0 CF of soil (25% happy frog 75% peat perlite mix) 6-5-3 = 6 parts Calcium Carbonate 90% pure or better CaCo3(Limestone not Dolomite Lime) 5 parts Soft Rock Phosphate and 3 parts gypsum
3 quarts EWC
1/2 cupAzomite
1/2 cup Bone Meal
Mycos

I would like to know why this is so high tech that it requires a soil sample? I admit, I'm a little bit unsophisticated, but you'd think that by now, somebody would have an "out-of-the-box" High Brix recipe. (for us container growers) I mean, are you guys growing in a lab, or what? High Brix is sounding to me like a very profitable venture for the guys who have it "figured out".

That being said, I'm interested in trying a version of the soil you've made here. You've specified that you need a calcitic lime source of 90% or better. Any good reason not to use eggshells? For some reason, lime that is not hydrated or dolomitic is incredibly hard to come by around here, and I'm not interested in mail ordering bulk ag products. I already use ground eggshells to feed my worms and microbes, so...

 

[Harry Palmer]

Hey, Mo. Thanks for replying to me. I've been lurking around here for years, never posted. But this was making me itch to press for more specifics. As my noob status would dictate, I am unable to PM you. Maybe if there's another way, until I can reach my minimum post count...

If you don't mind... Could you share some info on your mineralized soil? My head is spinning between HB, ROLS, and other organic methods. I'm no stranger to organic growing, but some of the methods that I'm reading about seem quite a bit more advanced than where I'm at right now.

Probably will follow this up with a new thread.

Thanks again.

 

[Harry Palmer]

Hey harry
If you have enough interest

No doubt about it...

If you would like a good starting spot try out the basic mineralized soil. You need promix hp as the building block.

Let's say that I don't go with High Brix... Is ProMix HP a necessity for mineralizing potting mix? I don't want to hijack a thread, so I've created a new one on mineralizing soils. If you don't mind hitting me up over there, I'll bow out of this one, for now...