are you a "conspiracy theorist"?

[idiit]

"follow the money!" "the wire"

there is no conspiracy theory. there is a reality theory here.

Wealth Has Gone to the .01% … Much More Than the 1%

^^ http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/02/money-hasnt-gone-1-gone-01.html good article.

 

[idiit]

there is no conspiracy theory. there is a reality theory here.

 

[Eureka Springs Organics]

I believe Public Enemy Said it best,

"Don't believe the hype!"

The hype in this case being anything that a government body, or main stream media says.

Nothing but lies to please the masses. The Government is nothing more than a shepherd. A few stray sheep with their own thoughts is ok, but they have to make sure it does not infect the entire flock.

Marijuana has been proven in studies to make people question what they are told.

Yet another reason for the prohibition of said plant.

NWA had a good song as well. I am sure you can guess which one I am talking about.

 

[HempKat]

@ the request of many I have decided to allow the thread to continue.....

please avoid the overly Governmental agenda's and stay on topic of " Are you a "conspiracy theorist" ? "....

posting of direct info,idea's, and examples are noteworthy....

but landsliding into unrelated political oblivion will not be tolerated.....

CARRY~on..... U ~ "conspiracy theorist" ?

Oh great, now you reopen the thread after the long reply I made the other day only to find the thread was closed while I composed it, has been lost and I don't feel like going thru the process of trying to reconstruct it now that you've had a change of heart.

 

[Stoner4Life]

Oh great, now you reopen the thread after the long reply I made the other day only to find the thread was closed while I composed it, has been lost and I don't feel like going thru the process of trying to reconstruct it now that you've had a change of heart.

face it! 'they' knew that your reply
was coming, it's a conspiracy.......

 

[gaiusmarius]

Oh great, now you reopen the thread after the long reply I made the other day only to find the thread was closed while I composed it, has been lost and I don't feel like going thru the process of trying to reconstruct it now that you've had a change of heart.

i hate when that happens. feel you for sure, very hard to reproduce ones initial rebuttal, specially when it's long covering many points. bad luck and timing.

 

[HempKat]

HempKat, if you're so sure the 9/11 "conspiracy theories" are bullshit, then explain WTC Building 7. Really.

Also, what are the odds that the plane which hit the Pentagon, would hit the exact office containing records of billions of dollars of missing funds, an investigation into which had just been announced the day before? No office, no records, no survivors.....no investigation.

Stop wasting your words in the defense of liars.

I already did explain WTC building 7. Not as glamorously as suggesting the government did it to create an excuse to go to war or to hide other nefarious activities they were involved in. It simply could have been a matter of a building contractor conspiring with government officials to pocket more money by cutting corners and not building to code and then having the government sign off on it as if it was built to code. Another reasonable possibility is that what we think is sufficient to make a building safe from collapse isn't as sufficient as we think. There is nothing like this ever in history for any engineer to say with 100% certainty that WTC Building 7 was strong enough to withstand the forces released by the collapse of the twin towers. I seriously doubt the builder/designer of the building even considered the possibility of the twin towers collapsing like that. Just like the Army Corp of Engineers thought the levies in N.O., LA were strong enough to withstand a hurricane like Katrina. That's how building codes are improved though. We do our best to build what we think is safe and when something happens that demonstrates it wasn't safe enough, we improve the codes to better insure it doesn't happen again.

Still I'm more inclined to go with the building contractor cutting corners conspiracy as that is something that has been documented as having happened before. There is big money involved in building structures and complexes like the World Trade Center and cutting corners can allow the builder to pocket lots of money he would have had to spend if he did the job correctly even if he has to pay off some government officials to sign off on the safety inspections.

As for the Pentagon, well first of all the plane that crashed into it hit more then just one office. It took out a big section of the building that contained many offices. Given the nature of the Pentagon and what people there do, I bet a commercial jet crashing into any section of the building would stand a good chance of destroying an office that contained sensitive information the government might like to hide. If as you suggest they did it to thwart an embarrassing investigation it would have made more sense to do it before the announcement of an investigation. Nor would they need to go to such lengths. If they wanted that info to disappear they could have easily just made it disappear in the middle of the night without crashing a plane into the building and making the headquarters of our nation's defenses look incapable of protecting itself let alone the nation's capital or the nation as a whole.

Or they could have simply gotten one of their big defense contractors to cook the books to help hide their misappropriation of funds. For example I know at one point not too long ago (within the last decade or so) Lockheed Martin won a government contract worth 400 Billion dollars. Which was just one of many lucrative contracts a company like Lockheed Martin is routinely awarded. A government contractor would likely be very willing to do something like that because the Pentagon would be likely to reward them with more lucrative contracts and if they didn't they would have something pretty damning to hold over their heads.

 

[HempKat]

face it! 'they' knew that your reply
was coming, it's a conspiracy.......

Hey, you might be on to something there?

 

[stihgnobevoli]

it's not a theory, there is a conspiracy. i and the rest of the conspiracy "theorists" are hoping when it all burns down, as it is currently in the process of, the rest of you will wake up and see that it's no theory and it's all around you 24/7. you just can't seem to see it.

 

[Eureka Springs Organics]

The Pentagon had a circular hole in it. Whatever made the hole had no wings.

Missile!

It's the only thing that flies that has no wings.

All of the Pentagon footage is secret. As is Par for the course with the Government.

As far as building 7 goes a news reporter from England reported on the building falling 15 minutes before it actually fell. It was only when they realized that behind her the building was still standing that they cut the interview.

Let's not forget about the video of the owner of the building saying he made the call to "pull" the building. So now they build buildings with explosive built right into the frame just in case they want to bring it down?

Something that is never talked about are the interviews with the supposed hijackers after the attacks. Yes that is correct, there are interviews of the people that were supposedly on the planes. They were interviewed in their own Countries after the fact, and they were obviously surprised that they had destroyed the twin towers, and were alive to talk about it.

Let's not forget about Osama Bin Laden being killed many, many years ago. The Government left that in their back pocket so they could score a win with America when need be.

There is video of Benazir Bhutto talking very plainly in an interview about how Osama Bin Laden had been killed. The interviewer acted as if this was common knowledge. Seems strange that the most wanted man by the US is reported dead by her, and no one is surprised.

American's (as most) are brain washed, and spoon fed what the Government/Corporations want you to see, and here.

Home school your kids so maybe one day our Country will have a chance.

 

[Wiggs Dannyboy]

If conspiracy theories are going to be discussed/debated, then the subject of "paranoia" must be included. Doesn't mean that a conspiracy theory has it's origin in a mental illness. But mental illnesses that involve paranoia have been around longer than what are called conspiracy theories.

From the Wikipedia entry on "conspiracy theory.":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory

The Oxford English Dictionary records the first use of the phrase "conspiracy theory" to a 1909 article in The American Historical Review.[11][12] Other sources predate this use by nearly four decades to at least 1871, where it is used in The Journal of Mental Science reporting on a conference of the Fifth Quarterly Meeting of the Medico-Psychological Association (now the Royal College of Psychiatrists), held on January 27, 1870.

From the Yahoo Education Encyclopedia:

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/encyclopedia/entry/paranoia

paranoia
(pr´´symbolnoi´symbol) , in psychology, a term denoting persistent, unalterable, systematized, logically reasoned delusions, or false beliefs, usually of persecution or grandeur. In the former case the paranoiac creates a complex delusional system that purports to show that people want to hurt him; in the latter, he sees himself as an exalted person with a mission of great importance. Other types of delusions include somatic delusions, as in the case of hypochondria, and jealous delusions. The term paranoia was first used by German psychiatrist Karl L. Kahlbaum in 1863. The condition, often known as delusional disorder, is found among individuals suffering from paranoid schizophrenia, paranoid personality disorder, and any of several paranoid disorders. Minor instances of paranoia are also commonly found among older people. Most individuals who suffer from some form of paranoia tend to be suspicious of the motives of others, leading them to be hypersensitive, tense, and argumentative. Jealousy and vengeful emotions are also common, and can lead to violent confrontation in the most severe cases. In most paranoid delusions, the individual believes that there is a pattern to random events which is somehow connected to him. Individuals with paranoid schizophrenia often suffer from delusions in conjunction with more severe symptoms, such as hallucinations.

So, I know this fact is going to irritate many folks who are unabashed supporters of conspiracy theories. And it doesn't mean somebody who supports a particular conspiracy theory is suffering from a paranoid mental illness. But no doubt there are some, especially those who seem to focus on conspiracy theories all the time, who are focusing on them because of some crossed wires in their brains.

This fact is unfortunate...but it is true...


.

 

[hunt4genetics]

Power is relative, with infinite amount of different meanings.

For one person, it may be the ability to overthrow a democratically elected government,

for another it may be rigging the world's most prestigious Dog show.


Winning best in show, or toppling a regime.


Different strokes for different folks.

 

[SativaBreather]

maybe wiggs but that 'fact' is meaningless. Plenty of paranoid people dont believe in conspiracy theories and symptoms of their illness manifest in other ways that have nothing whatsoever to do with conspiracy theories.

 

[Wiggs Dannyboy]

maybe wiggs but that 'fact' is meaningless. Plenty of paranoid people dont believe in conspiracy theories and symptoms of their illness manifest in other ways that have nothing whatsoever to do with conspiracy theories.

I never said that the only way a paranoid mental illness manifests itself only in conspiracy theories. Just that one underlying cause of a conspiracy theory can be traced to a paranoid delusional mind.

 

[gaiusmarius]

really 911? ok then...

really 911? ok then...

can't beleive anyone still believes the official version of that day, but if you do you might want to read this. this only covers a few aspects there are many more discrepancies from that day including the historic and unique failure of the whole pentagon missile defense apparatus as well as the whole US air defense system. on that day so many unique things happened that it's just silly to believe they all just happened by them selves. further more why did all those wrong calls by the military and defense department folks on duty that day, that made it all possible lead to promotions for those committing those costly errors rather then demotions? really people this article below is old, there is a ton of stuff out there now that makes it all but certain that we are being lied to about that day. every other time planes leave their flightpath or lose radio communication, they are intercepted by fighters within minutes. how come that day 4 separate planes were left in peace for hours despite being way off course and refusing to answer radio? why did the fighters get sent hundreds of miles in the wrong direction? why did the guy sending them the wrong way get promoted?

Saturday, September 10th, 2011 | Posted by Jim Fetzer
20 Reasons the “Official Account” of 9/11 is Wrong


by Jim Fetzer

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/09/10/20-reasons-the-official-account-of-911-is-wrong/



As the founder of Scholars for 9/11 Truth, I would observe that our members, building on prior research by earlier students of 9/11, have established more than a dozen disproofs of the official government account, the truth of any one of which is enough to show that the 
government’s account–in one or another of its guises–cannot possibly be correct.



1. The impact of planes cannot have caused enough damage to bring the buildings down, since the buildings were designed to withstand them (as Frank DeMartini, the project manager, has observed), the planes alleged to have hit were similar to those they were designed to withstand, and the buildings continued to stand after those impacts with negligible effects.

2. Most of the jet fuel, principally kerosene, burned up in those fireballs in the first fifteen seconds or so. Below the 96th floor in the North Tower and the 80th in the South, those buildings were stone cold steel (unaffected by any fires at all other than some very modest office fires that burned around 500 degrees F), which functioned as a massive heat sink dissipating the heat from building up on the steel.

3. The melting point of steel at 2,800 degrees F is about 1,000 degrees higher than the maximum burning temperature of jet-fuel-based fires, which do not exceed 1,800 degrees F under optimal conditions; but the NIST examined 236 samples of steel and found that 233 had not been exposed to temperatures above 500 degrees F and the others not above 
1200.

4. Underwriters Laboratory certified the steel in the buildings up to 2,000 degrees F for three or four hours without any significant effects, where these fires burned neither long enough or hot enough at an average temperature of about 500 degrees for about one hour in the South Tower and one and a half in the North Tower to weaken, much less melt.

5. If the steel had melted or weakened, then the affected floors would have displayed completely different behavior, with some degree of asymmetrical sagging and tilting, which would have been gradual and slow, not the complete, abrupt and total demolition that was observed. Which means the NIST cannot even explain the initiation of any 
”collapse” sequence.

[YOUTUBEIF]dzm2wfiXdW4[/YOUTUBEIF]

6. The top 30 floors of the South Tower pivoted and fell to the side, turning to dust before it reached the horizontal. So it did not even exist to exert any downward pressure on the lower 80 floors. A high-school physics teacher, Charles Boldwyn, moreover, has calculated that, if you take the top 16 floors of the North Tower as one unit of downward force, there were 199 units of upward force to counteract it.

7. William Rodriguez, who was the senior custodian in the North Tower and the last man to leave the building, has reported massive explosions in the sub-basements that effected extensive destruction, including the demolition of a fifty-ton hydraulic press and the 
ripping of the skin off a fellow worker, where they filled with water that drained the sprinkler system.

8. Rodriguez observed that the explosion occurred prior to reverberations from upper floors, a claim that has now been substantiated in a new study by Craig Furlong and Gordon Ross, ”Seismic Proof: 9/11 Was an Inside Job,” demonstrating that these 
explosions actually took place as much as 14 and 17 seconds before the presumptive airplane impacts.

[YOUTUBEIF]PPJUP-Ry7d0[/YOUTUBEIF]

9. Heavy-steel-construction buildings like the Twin Towers are not generally capable of “pancake collapse,” which normally occurs only with concrete structures of “lift slab construction” and could not occur in redundant welded-steel buildings, such as the towers, unless every supporting column were removed at the same time, floor by floor, as Charles Pegelow, a structural engineer, has observed.

10. The demolition of the two towers in about 10 seconds apiece is very close to the speed of free fall with only air resistance, which Judy Wood, Ph.D., formerly a professor of mechanical engineering, has observed is an astounding result that would be impossible with extremely powerful sources of energy. If they were collapsing, they would have had to fall through their points of greatest resistance.

11. Indeed, the towers are exploding from the top, not collapsing to the ground, where their floors do not move, a phenomenon Wood has likened to two gigantic trees turning to sawdust from the top down, which, like the pulverization of the buildings, the government’s account cannot possibly explain. There were no “pancakes”.

[YOUTUBEIF]Zv7BImVvEyk[/YOUTUBEIF]

12. WTC-7 came down in a classic controlled demolition at 5:20 PM after Larry Silverstein suggested the best thing to do might be to “pull it”, displaying all the characteristics of classic controlled demolitions: a complete, abrupt and total collapse into its own footprint, where the floors are all falling at the same time, yielding a stack of pancakes about 5 floors high.

13. Had the Twin Towers collapsed like WTC-7, there would have been two stacks of “pancakes” equal to about 12% the height of the buildings or around 15 floors high. But they were actually reduced to below ground level. Since there were no “pancakes”, there cannot have been any “pancake collapse” of either building, where the buildings were destroyed by different modes of demolition.

14. The hit point at the Pentagon was too small to accommodate a 100-ton airliner with a 125-foot wingspan and a tail that stands 44-feet above the ground; the debris was wrong for a Boeing 757: no wings, no fuselage, no seats, no bodies, no luggage, no tail! Not even the engines were recovered, which means that the official account is not true.

[YOUTUBEIF]j5FhQc-LJ-o[/YOUTUBEIF]

15. The Pentagon’s own videotapes do not show a Boeing 757 hitting the building, as even Bill O’Reilly admitted when one was shown on ”The O’Reilly Factor”; at 155 feet, the plane was more than twice as long as the 77-foot Pentagon is high and should have been present and easily visible; it was not, which means that the video evidence also contradicts the official account.

16. The aerodynamics of flight would have made the official trajectory “flying at high speed barely above ground level” physically impossible, because a Boeing 757 flying over 500 mph could not have come closer than about 60 feet of the ground, which means that the official account is not even aerodynamically possible, as Nila Sagadevan, an aeronautical engineer, explained to me.

17. Data from a flight recorder provided to Pilots for 9/11 Truth by the National Transportation Safety Board corresponds to a plane with a different approach and altitude, which would have precluded its hitting lampposts or even the building itself, which means that, if this data corresponds to a Boeing 757, it would have flown over the Pentagon rather than hit it.

[YOUTUBEIF]FEzoBKAkzmU[/YOUTUBEIF]

18. If Flight 93 crashed into an abandoned mine shaft, as the government maintains, then they should have brought out the heavy equipment and the bright lights and dug and dug, 24/7, in the hope that, by some miracle, someone might possibly have survived. But nothing like that was done. Even the singed trees and shrubs were trimmed, apparently to make it impossible to subject them to chemical analysis.

19. There is more, especially about the alleged hijackers, including that they were not competent to fly these planes and their names are not on any original, authenticated passenger manifest. Several have turned up alive and well and living in the Middle East. The government has not even produced their tickets as evidence that they were even aboard the aircraft they are alleged to have hijacked.

20. President Bush recently acknowledged that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11. The Senate Intelligence Committee has reported that Saddam was not in cahoots with Al Qaeda. And the FBI has acknowledged that it has “no hard evidence” to tie Osama to 9/11. If Saddam did not do it and Osama did not do it, then who is responsible for the death of 3,000 citizens that day?

We believe that it is the highest form of respect to those who died on 9/11 and their survivors to establish how and why they died, which our own government manifestly has not done. With the American media under the thumb of a corrupt administration, we cannot count on the press to perform its investigative function. But we can do our best to expose falsehoods and reveal truths about 9/11.

James H. Fetzer, Founder
Scholars for 9/11 Truth

 

[candidly]

This fact is unfortunate...but it is true...
.

It's also irrelevant, because it contradicts nothing.

 

[bentom187]

I never said that the only way a paranoid mental illness manifests itself only in conspiracy theories. Just that one underlying cause of a conspiracy theory can be traced to a paranoid delusional mind.

Something to consider.

Thomas Szasz
"The myth of mental illness"[edit]

"Mental illness" is an expression, a metaphor that describes an offending, disturbing, shocking, or vexing conduct, action, or pattern of behavior, such as schizophrenia, as an "illness" or "disease". Szasz wrote: "If you talk to God, you are praying; If God talks to you, you have schizophrenia. If the dead talk to you, you are a spiritualist; If you talk to the dead, you are a schizophrenic."[14] While people behave and think in ways that are very disturbing, and that may resemble a disease process (pain, deterioration, response to various interventions), this does not mean they actually have a disease. To Szasz, disease can only mean something people "have," while behavior is what people "do". Diseases are "malfunctions of the human body, of the heart, the liver, the kidney, the brain" while "no behavior or misbehavior is a disease or can be a disease. That's not what diseases are." Szasz cited drapetomania as an example of a behavior which many in society did not approve of, being labeled and widely cited as a 'disease'; likewise, women who did not bend to a man's will were said to have hysteria.[15] Psychiatry actively obscures the difference between (mis)behavior and disease, in its quest to help or harm parties in conflicts. By calling certain people "diseased", psychiatry attempts to deny them responsibility as moral agents, in order to better control them.

People who are said (by themselves or others) to have a mental illness can only have, at best, a "fake disease." Diagnoses of "mental illness" or "mental disorder" (the latter expression called by Szasz a "weasel term" for mental illness) are passed off as "scientific categories" but they remain merely judgments (judgments of disdain) to support certain uses of power by psychiatric authorities. In that line of thinking, schizophrenia is not the name of a disease entity but a judgment of extreme psychiatric and social reprobation. Szasz calls schizophrenia "the sacred symbol of psychiatry" because those so labeled have long provided and continue to provide justification for psychiatric theories, treatments, abuses, and reforms. The figure of the psychotic or schizophrenic person to psychiatric experts and authorities, according to Szasz, is analogous with the figure of the heretic or blasphemer to theological experts and authorities. According to Szasz, to understand the metaphorical nature of the term "disease" in psychiatry, one must first understand its literal meaning in the rest of medicine. To be a true disease, the entity must first, somehow be capable of being approached, measured, or tested in scientific fashion. Second, to be confirmed as a disease, a condition must demonstrate pathology at the cellular or molecular level.

A genuine disease must also be found on the autopsy table (not merely in the living person) and meet pathological definition instead of being voted into existence by members of the American Psychiatric Association. "Mental illnesses" are really problems in living. They are often "like a" disease, argued Szasz, which makes the medical metaphor understandable, but in no way validates it as an accurate description or explanation. Psychiatry is a pseudo-science that parodies medicine by using medical sounding words invented especially over the last 100 years. To be clear, heart break and heart attack, or spring fever and typhoid fever belong to two completely different logical categories, and treating one as the other constitutes a category error, that is, a myth. Psychiatrists are the successors of "soul doctors", priests who dealt and deal with the spiritual conundrums, dilemmas, and vexations – the "problems in living" – that have troubled people forever.

Psychiatry's main methods are those of conversation or rhetoric, repression, and religion. To the extent that psychiatry presents these problems as "medical diseases," its methods as "medical treatments," and its clients – especially involuntary – as medically ill patients, it embodies a lie and therefore constitutes a fundamental threat to freedom and dignity. Psychiatry, supported by the State through various Mental Health Acts, has become a modern secular state religion according to Szasz. It is a vastly elaborate social control system, using both brute force and subtle indoctrination, which disguises itself under the claims of scientificity.

 

[Eureka Springs Organics]

If distrust of the elite ruling class(yes we have a class system) is a mental illness, then I am the craziest motherfucker you will ever meet.

 

[candidly]

Psychiatry's main methods are those of conversation or rhetoric, repression, and religion. To the extent that psychiatry presents these problems as "medical diseases," its methods as "medical treatments," and its clients – especially involuntary – as medically ill patients, it embodies a lie and therefore constitutes a fundamental threat to freedom and dignity. Psychiatry, supported by the State through various Mental Health Acts, has become a modern secular state religion according to Szasz. It is a vastly elaborate social control system, using both brute force and subtle indoctrination, which disguises itself under the claims of scientificity.

Exactly.

The Soviet Union used claims of "mental illness" to control dissidents. Same as Nazi Germany. Same as fascist Italy. Same as any other authoritarian state. It's a label, used to control people.

There is now an effort underway in the U.S. to do the same thing. Witness how the DSM-5 manual was recently revised to be so vague that just about anyone can be "diagnosed" with a mental illness, according to its wording.

It's no accident that "conspiracy theorists" are often accused of "mental illness." There are entire web sites on the Internet where people who believe in limited government, in obeying the Constitution, following the Bible, etc are sarcastically labelled as "mentally ill."

Tell me, what business does a person have accusing another of "mental illness", if they themselves are stupid enough to believe every word the government says? If a person is dumb enough to label others "conspiracy theorists", how could that person possibly be mentally, morally, or factually equipped enough to diagnose someone as "mentally ill"? Especially when the "evidence" of said "mental illness" is the person's stubborn refusal to believe government lies and buy in to the official party line?

 

[HempKat]

can't beleive anyone still believes the official version of that day, but if you do you might want to read this. this only covers a few aspects there are many more discrepancies from that day including the historic and unique failure of the whole pentagon missile defense apparatus as well as the whole US air defense system. on that day so many unique things happened that it's just silly to believe they all just happened by them selves. further more why did all those wrong calls by the military and defense department folks on duty that day, that made it all possible lead to promotions for those committing those costly errors rather then demotions? really people this article below is old, there is a ton of stuff out there now that makes it all but certain that we are being lied to about that day. every other time planes leave their flightpath or lose radio communication, they are intercepted by fighters within minutes. how come that day 4 separate planes were left in peace for hours despite being way off course and refusing to answer radio? why did the fighters get sent hundreds of miles in the wrong direction? why did the guy sending them the wrong way get promoted?

Well I'm not going to take the time to try to argue every point in the list you posted so I'll just argue one significant one. You can go and google 9/11 pentagon wreckage right now and clearly see numberous pieces of wreckage that match the type of plane said to have crashed into it. I find it extremely difficult to believe that the Pentagon fired a cruise missle at itself and then ran out and scattered a bunch of appropriate wreckage around to make it believable without anyone noticing.

Since there is at least one assertion in this list of "proof" that is questionable I have to assume all of it is questionable. I'm not saying the official version is rock solid but in lieu of solid evidence to the contrary I have to say it can't be so readily dismissed. At the time I was living less then an hours drive away and have lived in that region for most of my life. If something shady was going on and they fired a missile at it, someone would have been noticed. The Pentagon sits just off a major beltway (295) that at that time of day is usually so backed up with rush hour traffic it's moving at a snail's pace. If a missile was fired or at the very least it wasn't a jet airliner that crashed into it then 100's would have witnessed that and come forward. Trust me, the people in the area are so used to the games politicians play that few if any would keep something like that a secret out of a sense of national pride and/or trust in the government.