The NEW E-Papillon 1000W Thread

[Caravaggio]

Oh so those are all DE Bulbs?

yessir

 

[HUGE]

anyone care to speculate as to why tjat ducted hood smashed tje other hoods? was it being cooled while being tested? I have heatd that lower operating temp is not ideal for the DE bulbs?

 

[Smokin Joe]

I'm interested in that too.
The a/c hood is cooled but not inside the reflector. But if this test was with out ducting it could be a higher temp

 

[Caravaggio]

I'm interested in that too.
The a/c hood is cooled but not inside the reflector. But if this test was with out ducting it could be a higher temp

it was NOT cooled

 

[Smokin Joe]

So was it a higher temp inside the reflector resulting in more par?

 

[Caravaggio]

So was it a higher temp inside the reflector resulting in more par?

Couldnt tell ya. Not sure if it matters a ton to me to be honest. The par is what the par is. The test i believe was run on a 12/12 for a 10 day period

 

[Snow Crash]

The AC/DE hood is absolutely huge, like, top to bottom. From what I understand they have some crazy expensive reflective material in there (as well as the Luxor 8) that is fueling the light spread.

 

[pHive.8]

Hi Caravaggio,
Take a look at the image above. The idea is that the light coming from an ePapillon is spread onto a larger area.
When using only 1 fixture on a small surface, you could be better of with a different fixture if you prefer a high lightlevel directly underneath your fixture. If you don't like hotspots and like a more even spread, use the ePapillon.
When using multiple fixtures, you'll always be better of with the ePapillon due to the overlapping and more diffuse light. Also you'll get much less hotspots on the canopy (which your image actually shows).
The light of the aircooled reflector is spread on a surface of 3ft x 3ft.
The light of the ePapillon is spread on a surface of 4ft x 8ft.

The total lightoutput of the ePapillon is 2100 micromol/s from the bulb and a 95% reflectorefficiency (meaning the amount of light reflected to the canopy).
Using a glass cover will always cost you efficiency. After some time when it gets dirty you can loose up to 10%.
If you spread the light on a larger surface it's obvious you'll measure less light under only 1 fixture.

 

[Caravaggio]

The AC/DE hood is absolutely huge, like, top to bottom. From what I understand they have some crazy expensive reflective material in there (as well as the Luxor 8) that is fueling the light spread.

Yea they are great reflectors. They are actually making a NON cooled version now that will only be like 10lbs too.

 

[Caravaggio]

View Image

Hi Caravaggio,
Take a look at the image above. The idea is that the light coming from an ePapillon is spread onto a larger area.
When using only 1 fixture on a small surface, you could be better of with a different fixture if you prefer a high lightlevel directly underneath your fixture. If you don't like hotspots and like a more even spread, use the ePapillon.
When using multiple fixtures, you'll always be better of with the ePapillon due to the overlapping and more diffuse light. Also you'll get much less hotspots on the canopy (which your image actually shows).
The light of the aircooled reflector is spread on a surface of 3ft x 3ft.
The light of the ePapillon is spread on a surface of 4ft x 8ft.

The total lightoutput of the ePapillon is 2100 micromol/s from the bulb and a 95% reflectorefficiency (meaning the amount of light reflected to the canopy).
Using a glass cover will always cost you efficiency. After some time when it gets dirty you can loose up to 10%.
If you spread the light on a larger surface it's obvious you'll measure less light under only 1 fixture.

Not sure exactly what you're talking about because that test was all hood that had no glass and were uncooled.

The problem with the ePaps and Gavitas is the need for more cooling due to the fact you cant place your Ballasts outside the grow room.

 

[McKush]

Not sure exactly what you're talking about because that test was all hood that had no glass and were uncooled.

The problem with the ePaps and Gavitas is the need for more cooling due to the fact you cant place your Ballasts outside the grow room.

The ballasts are in the same room for sure. To me that is a BIG plus and not a minus. I do not see a problem per se. You need to consider the entire equation when designing your room. This is not a light for a micro grow - bad application. The light fixture has very low EMI which for those wishing to play guitar is quite a BIG PLUS. I'm certainly in that camp so I can make that claim honestly.

 

[iuredbud]

What lamp is the AC DE reflector using?

 

[iuredbud]

Pretty major test was just done on all the major Dual Ended bulbs and fixtures. The tests were done by a 3rd party. The results were posted on a local forum here where I live so I figured id share. Pretty impressive results on the AC-De's.

The Gavita def outperformed the ePaps in the par department. All values are in Par value.

View Image

Caravaggio - great uniformity data/chart. What mfg paid for it?

 

[farmari]

All else equal, reflectors like the AC/DE and Luxor are going to output less light because a greater percentage of the light is reflected before leaving the reflector. It's like a flashlight, aiming the light straight down.

Thank you for posting that Caravaggio, though everyone should keep in mind that those numbers can be misleading for the reasons DGS mentioned.

A Gavita 1000w DE has the penetration directly under the reflector not too dissimilar from a standard 600w HPS in a Super Sun 2 reflector, so if added to the test they would have much more similar numbers than one would expect. But that would be highly misleading because the Gavita outputs 2x as much light, just spread out in a wider and more even fashion.

Regarding ballast cooling, I'm not sure why that is a big deal. The ballast loss is what, 6%? A lot of ballasts do worse than that. The ballast still gives off heat whether it's in the grow room or not. And if it outputs over 6% more light than a remote ballast light then you actually need less cooling to get the same amount of light output anyway...

 

[HG23]

Cool test Caravaggio, do you know how expensive it was to have done?

DGS, does E-Papillon have plans for a remote ballast and reflector? Have they done a test similar to this one and posted data with the wider footprint?

 

[pHive.8]

Hi HG23,
No we're not going for a remote ballast for reasons mentioned by farmari.
It just doesn't make sense for a 4-6% heat.
As for the test: Both Gavita and Lights Interaction sell projects that are over 10.000 pieces each. These contracts are based on lightlevels that are guaranteed. These growers produce tomatoes that will earn them $ 2 a lbs. They are looking for the most efficient systems available. It's up to you to choose on what you think is best.

Light measurements on what a plant actually does is different from hanging up a single fixture and writing down the values.
Ask around and see what your friends are using and of course, try them yourself.

 

[HG23]

Thanks DGS,

I'm still a little confused. When you say it doesn't make sense for a 4-6% heat, do you mean the ballasts don't get very hot and there wouldn't be much benefit from moving them?

 

[Caravaggio]

Caravaggio - great uniformity data/chart. What mfg paid for it?

No manufacturer paid for it. A Hydro company did it and they sell all of the brands listed. The owner just happens to be very much a nerd.

 

[Caravaggio]

Thanks DGS,

I'm still a little confused. When you say it doesn't make sense for a 4-6% heat, do you mean the ballasts don't get very hot and there wouldn't be much benefit from moving them?

Id like to see any proof at all that a ballast only contributes to a 6% heat increase when left inside a room. That statement coming from DGS who owns a company that sell a light that is ATTACHED to a ballast should be taken with a grain of salt.

For the record I love the Gavitas and ePaps. I just think having a ballast go out should be an easily replaceable situation and not have you have to remove an entire fixture and possibly have a light out until it's replaced. I like to keep an backup ballast on hand in case one goes out. Which is also $150 vs $550 to replace an entire fixture.

As for the bulbs. The AC/DE and the DE Adjust a Wings all use the exact same bulbs as the Gavita and ePap.

For those of you already running the Adjust a Wings and want to convert to DE bulbs there is now this

 

[Bxgrower81]

@carravagio, so if I'm understanding correctly, are you saying that a basic electronic ballast such as the Galaxy, lumatek, quantum 1000w ballasts using 240v would be able to ignite the Phillips DE bulbs in these AC/de hoods and the adjust a wing hoods, not really sure if I'm understanding completely or if I'm completely lost