Most potent strains

[Sam_Skunkman]

Are they really both from the same plant?
Do the narrow leaves become wide when more mature or older?
I have grown thousands of varieties and have not seen such a difference in leaves on one plant.
I have seen even more I did not grow myself and have not seen this.
-SamS

On a more positive note!

NLD vs. BLD?!?!?!?! IDK you tell me

These 2 leaves came from the same plant! Its an unknown strain (I bought 2 strains from a clinic and they were the same) It could be Razzelberry or Grape Kush or more likely neither. It flowers 9 weeks, produces nug on leaf mutations, has double serrations, sometimes turns a touch of blue or purple and has a candy smell that I think is very typical but good without a hint of earth/spice/hash. If I had to guess (and I shouldn't) I would say its got some blueberry in it. I kinda hate not knowing how authentic my strains are and kinda don't care.

View Image

The clear margin overlap on the broad one is 100% natural (not positioned). The other speaks for itself. The bigger leaves are older fan leaves and the thin ones protrude from the nugs.

 

[Rinse]

I don't think you need to worry about corporate interests.

I doubt that they even know what psychotropic cannabis IS, I'm sure they couldn't care less, hell, I doubt if they could spell it. Really, really off the radar for them. Jeez, it's off the radar of most stoners. For those of us who do like it, we have the advantage that it is totally our own field. No intrusions!

As for "MacDonalds" stoner cannabis, in my view, the corporates are welcome to it. They deserve it, as do their customers. Everyone is happy.

Good point, do most smokers really know what hi grade is? Not really, certainly most cannot tell subtleties in the stone that are actually of high importance to those who smoke for deeper reasons than to "get a buzz".
Hence the popularity of bright green hydro nugs that have a short lasting rush of an effect that one builds a tolerence to after a few days.

The deep, rich, and I guess you could say spiritual effects of the old strains is being lost because most smokers cannot even detect it, let alone care.

 

[Gert Lush]

That is a very good point, Rinse.
The culture of stuff that knocks you on the head, KO's you for 20 minutes, but does precious little else is too prominent.

It's almost like we're talking about two different substances, sheeshh...

I wouldn't give the winos down at hobo's corner a fine champagne. They simply like White Blitz Lightning more. Certainly they wouldn't see any of my 20 yr old Scotch or Cognac! I don't think the analogy is too far fetched.

If we measured quality of booze by alcohol content, the strongest stuff would be the iffy home-brews that contain too much methanol!

 

[Siever]

If we measured quality of booze by alcohol content, the strongest stuff would be the iffy home-brews that contain too much methanol!

touché!!

 

[Tiami]

in this part of Europe the weed culture is on really low levels, most people don't care what they smoke as long as it gets you stoned. basiclly there are three types of weed, 'the skunk' which is any indoor stuff and is considered the strongest. then there's home made weed - outdoor stuff. which is considered 'conossieur weed' but actual quality veries a lot. people started to buy seeds online now, mostly GHS, DP..buying and exchanging clones is science fiction here. and there's low price, poor quality, pressed weed from south, often seeded. many people never heard of SSH, NL, not to mention OGs and Kushs.

I've seen very mixed reactions from people who have tried my outdoor Panama and Golden Tiger. mostly their reaction was - it's ok. then there was situation that two joints sent everyone home. party over, which doesn't happen often. it was freshly harvested Golden Tiger. two of my friends noted the difference in quality of high. we were talking about it and agreed it's hard to compare this weed to other commercialy available here (above mentioned 'skunks'). there's little if any pure sativas on the market. maybe it doesn't hit you like a hammer but it's strong and psychodelic.

what was that I wanted to say?

 

[ThaiBliss]

Good point, do most smokers really know what hi grade is? Not really, certainly most cannot tell subtleties in the stone that are actually of high importance to those who smoke for deeper reasons than to "get a buzz".
Hence the popularity of bright green hydro nugs that have a short lasting rush of an effect that one builds a tolerence to after a few days.

The deep, rich, and I guess you could say spiritual effects of the old strains is being lost because most smokers cannot even detect it, let alone care.

I truly believe that CBD and CBN dulls the THC, and makes you tired (couch-lock). Daily or even weekly Indica smokers have it in their blood, and are dulled to the more pure THC/THCV... experience. This is the "tolerance" that people speak of. When I was smoking mostly high grade, "reverse tolerance" was literally part of the conversation about weed. Smoking high grade would actually make you more sensitive to it the next time you smoked it.

Truth be told... there was also a lot of total shit weed back in the day. But I had a great source. We got Thai Stick every year for about 15 years. In addition, we got some other gems a few times a year. Including from California. California was just getting it's act together as a exporter of premier quality just before it went to shit. Cops, greed, and indica are to blame, once again. I think there are still pockets of connoisseur growers out there preserving the old stains. Hi Dr. Purpur, Gert, Sam, Rinse, etc.. We bought a lot of the good stuff, and held out until the next good stuff came in. The bad shit pollutes your blood. Gee-wiz, if only people had a little pride in what they smoked, and could abstain for a few weeks, refusing the shit weed if necessary, it could change the cannabis scene dramatically. Probably too late. Too many newbies have grown up on indica and indica sativa crosses, and have come to prefer the "fucked up badly".

B.T.W., "Fucked up bad" could actually mean tired, sleepy, and confused. I don't drink for the hangover, I drink for the drunk. My ears only perk up about a strain when people say it had me "trippin'", or "that is rocket fuel". Truth is, if I hear anyone say "it made me paranoid" I pay attention. With the great weed, the paranoia is what you build up the tolerance to, but the "high" just keeps on coming on.

The out here is... "to each his own".

ThaiBliss

 

[pinkus]

Evolution usually tends to move foward.

it does, but this is selection not evolution.

 

[Gert Lush]

ThaiBliss: Couchlock is not a product of CBD - that's a common misconception.
In fact, CBD has no psychotropic effects, mainly anxiolytic and anti-inflammatory and other medical effects. Although, to be fair, I don't think much has been done to see how it works synergetically with THC, I suspect any research here will show good results. It's been so bred out of modern strains, anyway, as to hardly be relevant in discussions of "strength". Some work is being done to reintroduce it, but I think that mainly concerns medical use.

The tired, nervy and listless effects you describe have indeed been attributed to CBN. However, CBN is a product of cannabinoid breakdown, unlike THC and CBD which are genetically determined.

So, the bottom line, as far as I understand is that it's THC that both makes you stoned AND makes you high! It seems we are unsure why sometimes it will do the one and sometimes the other.

It is actually quite remarkable how little we know about the psychotropic effects of cannabis!!!

Some people have speculated that it might be THC in conjuction with terpenes, a fair guess, but I don't know how much this has been proved - I suspect not much. I am sure terpenes play a major role, limonine for instance has been much researched on its own. Also myrsene (sp?) and others. However, I am not convinced it's just that. Sometimes it is quite difficult to admit we know next to nothing, especially when we've convinced ourselves that, well, we know a little bit.

 

[bioguy]

Are they really both from the same plant?
Do the narrow leaves become wide when more mature or older?
I have grown thousands of varieties and have not seen such a difference in leaves on one plant.
I have seen even more I did not grow myself and have not seen this.
-SamS

Yes they are....but I admit that I cherry picked 2 that were the most different. And yes I would say they get bigger with maturity.

With that said, narrow leaves can be found down low and fat ones up top (the standard is narrow up top and fat down low). The average leaf on the plant is the intermediate shape.

I'll post some full plant pics tonight.

I must say, if you've never seen this...it makes me really excited. Your reputation is legendary so the idea I found anything you've never seen is pretty cool to me. And proof we all have something to share, contribute, learn, experience etc.

Thanks for following

 

[bioguy]

^^^Yep!
And the Mr. Nice Guy is probably and f? gen from the originals ...seems she has more purple phenos that pop up too though. Who really knows but the peeps that did the actual project(s) ...and they're sticking to their story!

What about the Mr Nice from Mr Nice? I forgot all about this one.

I read once that all the Mr Nice G-13's were backcrosses but IDK who said it or if they were in the know.

Maybe Sensi is F? but Mr Nice is a BX?

Any thoughts?

 

[bioguy]

Ha! I'm an old-timer. This is hilarious to me. I think quality and potency has gone way, way, way down since I was young.

When I was a kid, and all the top shelf killer strains were sativa. There was a controversy if cannabis was a hallucinogen or a narcotic.

In fact, the best narcotic indica x sativa hybrids all have a great sativa in it's genetic background. I bet all the best strains on "the list" here all have Thai in it. Haze... yes. Chem D... yes, Northern Lights #5... yes, and on and on and on.

shamans hard at work for 10 thousand years. And, they were doing so for medicinal and spiritual purposes. I think growers and pollen chuckers today really need to get over themselves!

ThaiBliss

out of all you mentioned in the last few posts i am leanin towards the notion of the 5HzA taking the crown..

Welcome and thanks for your thoughts

There is a lot of stuff here I was hoping would come up.

Knowing that the original breeders had a good selection of the worlds best AND an understanding of hybrid vigor I suspect the finest was found rather quickly. Haze and NL and then their crosses. First they got pure Sativa hybrid vigor and pure Indica hybrid vigor and then combined them. Its kinda a no brainer...accept that they probably did it 20 times before it worked so well.

I also remember the swag that would knock your socks off and have also wondered how much it has to do with tolerance vs genetics. Hallucinatory is a perfect description, almost like a weak mushroom buzz. I lived in Florida and it was mostly brown Mexi brick but we also got her from Colombia and the islands.

The first time we saw kind bud (around 93) we got green, purple and almost white (yellow) nugs. The yellow stuff made the house smell like you rubbed dog and baby poo on everything. The purple was so dense we did not know what to do with it and the green looked just like what almost everything looks like today. I have often speculated it was probably a Haze (yellow), an Afghan Kush (purple) and NL (green). It all got us really high but not like the Mexi would (sometimes). We fell in love with the flavor and novelty as much as the high.

Now onto your Thai comments. I believe that you are almost correct. Personally I think it was both a Thai and an Afghan. I may be over simplifying but the way I see it, it all started with Haze and NL. This allowed Indica Sativa hybrids that were based on modern genetics instead of landraces (Haze x NL instead of Thai x Afghan). I suspect that these early projects tapped hybrid vigor in a way that was not possible (or harder) with just landraces. This vigor slowly slips away as these plants are continually inbred from Afghan dominant (yield, density, fast) traits. Basically, IMO I think the Thai did it but could not have done it alone. Hence 5HzA

Now, onto Chem D. This is the one strain that I have a hard time believing has the Thai. Not for any reason other than the fact that it is so Afghan dom and people think it maybe a G-13/HP. BUT I can't forget Nevil's comment about the smell.

As for pollen chuckers...I think they (I am one) need to remember that their work is not done after the chucking phase. IMO pollen chuckers should focus on creating clone only strains. If your chucking crates a great plant it can be gifted and preserved without risk of passing on a ton of crap in the seeds.

On that note I think 10 seed packs are ruining Cannabis. 10 seeds @ 90% germination => 4.5 females. The seed stock might have some amazing plans but getting the best out of 4 is not likely. So people pay $100 for 4 females, keep the keeper, and then go to pollen chucking without realizing their keeper is NOT that good...just the best out of 4.

Finally, I wish more breeders would spend a little more effort preserving the ancient lines you mentioned. I can't count how many great companies have these old plants but only offer hybrids. I know very few people want to buy the originals but it would be nice if we could. Now that I am following the forums I suspect some of these could be had by personally requesting them.

 

[bioguy]

The Weed Chemdog bought was a lot like the Chem 91 and Chem d. We sold it to Chemdog after we met him on dead tour. It was called Dogbud and parents were not Jack Her or any listed above. We were told it was grown in Oregon but who knows.

Thanks for the correction about the bud vs seed pheno.

What are you thoughts about Dogbud being a G-13/HP pheno? Maybe from homemade seeds with G-13/HP mom...IDK, but it sounds like you might.

 

[bioguy]

Old School Sativa vs Modern:

One thing I can't get out of my head is how poorly most swag is treated. I used to get so high from swag it was silly, but not always. In fact it was rare. It was also rare for the Mexicans to let the flowers fully mature, it was usually dried in open sun, moistened prior to bricking (which causes ammonia fermentation) etc. Might we have been getting so high from the rare bag of properly handled bud...even thou it still looked like crap.

I have also read that the true haze is a 1 in 10 shot at getting the best pheno. By the 90's (the 80's I think) the Mexican's had haze seeds and haze hybrids galore. Maybe it was the rare haze pheno showing up in 1 out of 50 bags. And maybe not haze maybe Thai or something...Just a thought.

Random: I recently read that a group of scientists grew out seeds from Colombian swag and found genetic markers related to cannabis from all 4 corners of the world (including Amsterdam).

 

[bioguy]

many say this.. but if it wasn't for growing for money, most people wouldn't even have ever got to smoke weed. it became a commodity because it had a market and was worth money.

I also think that when the seed bank fiasco happened in the late 80's tons of crap rip of seeds were sold. Crap, in that they were F2, F? and BX's from other seed banks (I think Shanti accused Nirvana and others of this) but we all know great plants can be found in F? and BX's but the strain name is not properly represented (some better, some worse maybe some the same).

This should have been a disaster but in a clandestine world of clones and moms it resulted in tons of "new" stuff". IMO this was one of the major drivers of clone only strains and rare phenotypes.

It started with greed, but yielded great strains just the same.

 

[bioguy]

I gotta know....do you cook and/or reuse your soil mix. Mine is almost identical but you use way more nutrients than I do.

It seems really hot.

 

[bioguy]

I agree, when I hear older folks say herb was stronger back in the day, I wonder if they are factoring in tolerance. When I first started smoking, all that was available to me was scwhag. Straight poop. And I got higher then, off that, prolly than I do now off of oil. The high was garbage. Drowsy, headaches, etc. But since I had no tolerance, I got high really easily.
Imho it makes sense that weed is better and more potent now. Evolution usually tends to move foward.

I agree too, but I'm torn. I go to the topics often and smoke tons of brown crappy swag. I dread it every time until I'm there. Then its fine, plenty stoned from the worst weed I've ever seen.

Sometimes I get the headache and crash but not always. Sometimes its the perfect travelers stone...clear, energetic etc....maybe thats due to the environment...hard to pass out in paradise.

When I come home I don't notice my goods work any better.

 

[symbiote420]

Sativa ....Indica .....Indica ....Sativa, I love to smoke them both really! I've always felt there's a time and a place for each ...I've smoked indies that have f'd up my day and saties that have f'd up my nites lol can't imagine cheating myself from the experiences one has to offer!! The saty I showed in the pics a few pages back has absolutely no ceiling to it at all and cuts thru everything I've been smoking lately ....doesn't look as good as my OGs but the high makes my head fill like a hot air balloon and my bro is afraid to smoke it, got a few pals that get a headache off indies and a few off any saty ...different strokes for different folks! I'm just glad I can walk the thin line and appreciate both worlds!!!

 

[Pbud]

Thanks for the correction about the bud vs seed pheno.

What are you thoughts about Dogbud being a G-13/HP pheno? Maybe from homemade seeds with G-13/HP mom...IDK, but it sounds like you might.

I think the dog bud which is the parents of OG and Chem came from the hippie trail in the 70's that went to Afgan and brought back beans. Prob were growing it for years before we got it. Chem d was a bagseed that chemdog found in the dog bud we sent him.

I did love the tai stick and Afgan and Laos bud we got in NYC in the mid 80's. But it doesn't touch the chem genetics in my opinion. Just my opinion. Pot today, is stronger. And Chem d is the most potent of all!

 

[pappy masonjar]

From the descriptions ive heard of Nepalese Kafiristanicas, id say theres a chance one is involved in Chem, imho of course. They are supposedly straight diesel fuel tasting.

Wheres Chimera at with that damn testing already?

 

[3rd-3yed]

Thank you P-bud, i tought too it was some sort of pre-soviet afghan expression, so for you there is no others strains involved than plain old Ghani in the Chem lineage ?

Peace