The NEW E-Papillon 1000W Thread

[Hammerhead]

its a standard Digital ballast for SE bulbs.

 

[BreezeEazy]

Pretty soon you guys are going to get loads of data including par data from 36 different points. Also, I will compare data to Lumatek ballasts with Hortilux Super HPS bulbs.

Stoked man. Can't wait to see it. I'm so pumped, 3 more weeks and this cycle is over and I'm upgrading to ePaps or Gavita, but pretty sold on ePaps. Either way the blow everything else out of the water.

 

[pHive.8]

I did some testing with my Solic Tek Ballast vs the Gavita on the Agrotech The par was much higher on the Agrotech..All my data is on another site I cant get back on.

Im using a 5x5 for that light, the E-P are getting A 4x4 area with some overlapping. Im using a distance of 25-30" from bulb to canopy on 1k setting. If I use the 1150 setting I would use the 30" or more.

DGS what would you use for canopy distance on the 1150 setting.??

@1150W go for 36"

 

[McKush]

Pretty soon you guys are going to get loads of data including par data from 36 different points. Also, I will compare data to Lumatek ballasts with Hortilux Super HPS bulbs.

Data is a good thing! Snype youre reading me like a book too! Hehe serious tho data acquisition and turning data into information is what life is all about, many jobs too. Ah, like at least 3 graduate level classes on statistics now they finally find a home in cannabislandia..... Welcome home tools, welcome home. Lol

 

[Quadchomes]

Accuracy of picture?

Accuracy of picture?

If you don't worry about cooling, definately go for the ePapillon 1000W's.

Photosynthesis are 3 main ingredients: light, CO2 and nutrients (+water).
It's all about the weakest link. Up your light, up CO2 and nutrients.

If you worry about the amount of light: Replace 12 radiant 8's by 8 ePapillon 1000W's. They will probably give you the equal amount of light.

I made a little picture that shows what the ePapillon is all about lighting wise when it comes to overlap!

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=44419&pictureid=1147855&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

Hi DGS, thx for creating this thread. Trying to figure out if I should shell out a few extra bucks for your ePaps over gravitas.

Your drawing from the post above shows as if those lamps were spread 2' on center, but correct me if I'm wrong, don't you guys recommend a 5' spread. If I'm right, the overlap on the picture is a bit exaggerated?
(I got to those numbers by comparing the width of the hood with the distance between each hood, 5 to 8 respectively. EPaps width equals 9.1")

The ePaps manual gives no instruction for cleaning the reflector, are there any recommendations for cleaning and products to use?

Will dirt stay on there harder with longer cleaning intervals or will reflectivity diminish more with multiple cleanings?

Last question, grow rooms usually have a lot of air movement. Personally I will have cold Ac air blowing down from above at about a 45 degree angle. My biggest concern between ePaps and gavitas is that cold air may hit the bulb in your style hood, whereas the gavita would have to have air come up from below to hit the bulb. These bulbs are temperature sensitive, right? Have you guys done any performance tests to take this into account?

If anybody using ePaps has looked into any of these issues please chime in.

Thanks again, any info will be helpful.

 

[pHive.8]

Hi DGS, thx for creating this thread. Trying to figure out if I should shell out a few extra bucks for your ePaps over gravitas.

Your drawing from the post above shows as if those lamps were spread 2' on center, but correct me if I'm wrong, don't you guys recommend a 5' spread. If I'm right, the overlap on the picture is a bit exaggerated?
(I got to those numbers by comparing the width of the hood with the distance between each hood, 5 to 8 respectively. EPaps width equals 9.1")

The ePaps manual gives no instruction for cleaning the reflector, are there any recommendations for cleaning and products to use?

Will dirt stay on there harder with longer cleaning intervals or will reflectivity diminish more with multiple cleanings?

Last question, grow rooms usually have a lot of air movement. Personally I will have cold Ac air blowing down from above at about a 45 degree angle. My biggest concern between ePaps and gavitas is that cold air may hit the bulb in your style hood, whereas the gavita would have to have air come up from below to hit the bulb. These bulbs are temperature sensitive, right? Have you guys done any performance tests to take this into account?

If anybody using ePaps has looked into any of these issues please chime in.

Thanks again, any info will be helpful.

The drawing that shows the overlap is indeed a bit exaggerated. It just shows the way the reflector works. It's not actually a real model..

The reflector of the ePapillon is made in such a way that all heat is radiated away from the material. The material doesn't really reach high temperatures and because of that the dirt won't really burn into the material. There are replacement reflectors available which are about $ 37,50. We don't advise cleaning the reflectors (you could wipe them with a clean cloth, but nothing more!).

It's not advisable to have cold air from the AC directed to any type of fixture or bulb. So I wouldn't do that in any case.
The bulbs are indeed temperature sensitive, but only when cold air is directed to the bulb.
I wouldn't worry too much about that!

 

[McKush]

This is the lightspread on a 12' by 28' canopy using the ePapillon 1000W fixtures in a 4' by 4' layout.

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=44419&pictureid=1128244&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

Hi DGS,

I just made the following from your graph posted earlier. Hope this is ok to share:

Epapillon light spread 12ft by 28ft field

So this shows roughly 2' from perimiter or also roughly 4ft centered on fixtures.

I will end up with a sort of weirdly configured room but for my site conditions and needs I think makes sense.

Flower room will be 5x9 with part of room 5'x6'x10' and part of 5'x3'x7.8'.

I will hang two ePap fixtures configured A) 3'x3'x3'
or B) 2.5'x4'x2.5'

Now given that the field is not the same depth I'm not sure worrying about this fine of a detail is even warranted or has merit but I'm curious to get your feedback. Is one of the above configurations better for me than the other?

If that graph is outdated please advise and I'll take it down. I thought my work might help others though.

 

[McKush]

Oh - lest anyone pounce on me, this is just my configuration. 10' all the way around would be ideal but not possible for me if I am to fit everything into the space that I need to incorporate. But I can do other interesting things with the height difference too and we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Quadchomes]

Nice graph. I'm curious, does anybody know at what height those PAR readings are taken at?

 

[Caravaggio]

Anyone know how the difference is in the spread using these dual ended HPS bulbs in a Adjust a Wing vs these ePap fixtures?

I just noticed that Adjust a Wings now has a model that takes this same bulb. I know how popular those are for growing so was curious.

 

[Quadchomes]

Thx for your help DGS.

 

[itsblown]

@drknockbootz and @habeeb

You can buy the ePapillon products through our distributor Dutch Garden Supplies
They can tell you where you can find your closest retailers.

Because the material of the reflector doesn't get really hot, dust etc doesn't burn into the material, so you'll loose only about 1% efficiency a year.But I can imagine you will want every percent of light to be used. So replacement reflectors are also sold.

How did you determine this? Not trying to give you a hard time or anything just really curious

 

[Coconutz]

Anyone know how the difference is in the spread using these dual ended HPS bulbs in a Adjust a Wing vs these ePap fixtures?

I just noticed that Adjust a Wings now has a model that takes this same bulb. I know how popular those are for growing so was curious.

Spread is the same. Its the same reflector.
Its just a different fixture they swap out for the single ended fixture
Intensity should be slightly increased.
I want 1!

 

[Caravaggio]

Spread is the same. Its the same reflector.
Its just a different fixture they swap out for the single ended fixture
Intensity should be slightly increased.
I want 1!

Me 2.

 

[BreezeEazy]

How did you determine this? Not trying to give you a hard time or anything just really curious

I'd imagine an infrared temp gun. Be nice if they could run a e-paps next to a gavita for 4,000 hours each and then some how scan it or measure for the loss of reflectivity.

I'm real big into companies backing up their claims. If your going to make a a reflector and say it diminishes slower than another because the heat isn't as high, I'd like to see how you can prove that. At this point, the only reason why I'm buying a e-paps over a gavita is because of the reflector.

Longer lasting reflector means a better long term buy and if you're asking for $100-120 more than a gavita, it better be worth it. At 1% a year it would take 5 years to reach the level of a Gavita's reflector after one year. The reflectors are roughly the same price, maybe $3 difference, so you get your money back after 2-3 years. If they could some how prove this to be true, e-paps would dominate because its a no-brainer IMO, one less thing to worry about. But if you're one of those people who don't care about money or efficiency, specially on a small scale, than it really doesn't matter. I still plan on picking up 2 e-paps for my next cycle. Wider spread means better coverage and since it doesn't penetrate as deep as the gavita, I bet you can running it on the 1150 mode safer than the gavita. It at least makes sense.

 

[pHive.8]

How did you determine this? Not trying to give you a hard time or anything just really curious

In horticulture Lights Interaction gives a maximum of 1% degradation warranty of the reflector so we're pretty sure about what happens with the reflector over time.

The ePapillon has been used in horticulture since 2005. 8 year of taking samples of used reflectors out of projects have showed us that cleaning the reflector can win about 0,5% of reflectance.

 

[Bill Bellamy]

How high above the plants do you recommend for the greenhouse? Someone was mentioning somewhere they they are meant to run up higher in GH and create a 9x9 footprint? Could you touch on this please? Thanks for your time

 

[Coconutz]

They are used to supplement the sun in a greenhouse to extend the daylight hours and arent the main source of light.
Its ok to use them to just make sure theres enough light getting to the denser areas and corners or anywhere shaded by equipment and shit

 

[Bill Bellamy]

Using them year round in auto light deprivation gh so mine are being used for more than just supplemental light in the winter (now). Thank you for you response coco, I would also like to hear what DGS has to say on this particular question.

 

[pHive.8]

How high above the plants do you recommend for the greenhouse? Someone was mentioning somewhere they they are meant to run up higher in GH and create a 9x9 footprint? Could you touch on this please? Thanks for your time

Hi Bill,

Cutflowers like roses only need a lightlevel of 170 umol/m2s in which they put the fixtures in a pattern of 7 ft by 16 ft (instead of the 4 ft by 8 ft in hydroponics).
In greenhouses for cutflowers they are suspended about 9 ft - 18 ft above the plants depending on the height of the greenhouse.
Normally they are suspended as high as possible to give the best possible lightspread and get the maximum in overlapping of light.

But in greenhouses that produce tomatoes, cucumbers etc they are suspended about 3 ft above the top of the plant (the plant grows to the top of the greenhouse) which is similar to hydroponics.