Spools, China, and Collection chamber alternatives

[Lebniis]

Does anyone have information on the production of tri clamp spools (6"-12") in China. Why aren't we seeing more suppliers with 12"x12" spools?

Besides paint pots, it looks like alternatives to spools might help those who are waiting on spools to become available.

Can we discuss what thickness steel plates would be needed for a 12x12 welded box to account for deflection under vacuum? This of course would need custom gaskets, base, clamps , etc.

 

[Gray Wolf]

I was instrumental in Glacier ordering 6" X 6" columns and it was me who talked them into ordering the first 12" X 12" columns. I haven't worked with any other suppliers but do know of someone buying units directly from China for substantially less money.

For the purposes of conversation, here is the formula that I use for calculating lid deflection. For aluminum, use a modulus of elasticity of 10,000, 000 and for steel 30,000,000.

It is for simply supported lids, and the sides and bottom are usually rigidly supported, but it will be close and adequate. If you need refinement, I'll take the time to look up the other formula out of the Machinery Handbook.

Calculating stress at the extreme fiber and deflection of Polycarbonate vacuum chamber lids lids

The formulas for calculating stress at the extreme fiber and deflection for a simply supported flat circular plate from the Thirteenth addition of the Machinery Handbook are as follows:

1.0 Assume:

S= 0.39W
t2

d= 0.0284W R2
Et3

Where:

S = Stress at the extreme fiber
T= Ultimate Tensile of Polycarbonate =9,500 psi
p= Pressure in psi = 14.7 psia atmospheric pressure
W= Total load on plate= p X area = 4618 lbs
t= Plate thickness= 2″
d= Deflection
R= Radius of plate= 1/2Diameter = 10″
E= Modulus of elasticity = 375,000 psi
D= Diameter of pot= 20″

Mechanical properties taken from: http://www.boedeker.com/polyc_p.htm

 

[mack 10]

Lost me at assume, hehehe!

 

[JColtrane]

Going to China with a pocket full of money to buy SS is a very good idea right now!!! I'm saving all of my pennies

 

[HighStateToke]

http://www.glaciertanks.com/Sanitary_Spools_1_-2-TriClamp_1_Spools_6_Length.html

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/1462640546/Stainless_Steel_Sanitary_Pipe_Spool.html?s=p

Look familiar eh..?

 

[icdog]

GW is likely referring to someone else but I've actually contacted that wenzhou company and have quotes. After shipping it is still a bit cheaper then glacier but with further shipping around North America it might be close.
Sourcing from China can have quality issues. I lived in China for quite some time, speak Mandarin and have people in the mainland who can visit a factory to verify shipment and quality and I'm still not certain its a good idea. There is little recourse for return no matter what the company says.
If some of you are interested in discussing this pm me.

I am actually picking up a 6 inch spool from another source which I'm certain will be to spec, but it is very expensive. I'll post a pic later on.

 

[HighStateToke]

Glacier stole Wenzhou's picture of their sanitary spools. I'm not sure about you guys but that tells me that Wenzhou is their source. As I went to alibaba I said to myself "hah, I find so much equipment on this website which is used in extractions. I'll laugh if they have sanitary terpenator parts as well, but I'll probably just go with Glacier because of the quality reassurance." But what do ya know..they seem to be made in the same exact factory.

 

[HighStateToke]

Glacier, Across International, MIT, Hydrion..all re branding Chinese products which are easily found on Alibaba. They are resellers and distributors.

 

[icdog]

Just picked up my 6 inch spool and it looks great.

 

[RHH]

Hey guys, so I'm an importer and wanted to clear some things up. First, Wenzhou is a city on China that happens to be big on stainless steel manufacturing. Cities in China have reputations similar to how US cities do(Los Angeles is entertainment, Silicon Valley is tech, New York is finance and fashion, etc.). Shenzhen is the center of electronics production, Dongguan has a reputation for paper/pulp products, Ningbo is chemical, etc.

I've imported spools from China(and have another shipment coming in soon) with pretty reasonable success. Here are the main things you're going to run into:

1) Minimum order quantities. Usually just about >$2k to get any meaningful discount.

2) Shipping. Air mail is expensive. Ocean freight is much cheaper(what I'm using) but the waiting time is >40 days and you better have a sizeable order.

3) Finding a reputable vendor. Lots of companies are "trading companies" which essentially means they're middlemen. You won't find a whole lot of factories on Alibaba. More than likely the person you're contacting is just calling another company for a quote.

4) The Chinese know the value of the goods they sell and markup is insane. You will get swindled if you don't keep your wits about you. I've been quoted prices for certain parts at more than what I would pay retail from USA vendors.

5) There's definitely quite a few industries where it's cheaper to buy goods locally than it is to buy them overseas. Not sure if this applies here.

Communicating with the Chinese is difficult and their internal company communication is typically pretty bad. I'd say ~5 out of my last 10 shipments from China(from 4+ different vendors) had something wrong with them. Either it's defective merchandise, the wrong color product, something is missing, or specific instructions are ignored. This happens all the time.

The last time I ordered sanitary fittings they accidentally machined holes in all of my end caps instead of just a few of them. When I asked them to fix it they offered to discount my next order from by the amount that it cost me to have the holes filled in by a welder. That's a huge pain in the ass to deal with. On the positive side, the last order of spools worked perfectly and I'll have a bunch of affordable parts for sale in about 5 weeks. =).

Surprisingly, attitudes don't vary too much based on the value you provide as a customer. One company that I've spent >150k with this year alone refused to fix a $3k order. I stopped using them after that. Another vendor was totally cool about discounting orders that had mistakes in them despite me being a new customer. One thing is for sure though--there is no such thing as dispute resolution. If the order is big enough they'll just F you...even if they would make back their losses in the next 30 days.

When you pay extra for imported Chinese products from USA vendors you're paying for the transaction risk, the wait time, and the experience of the importer.

 

[mack 10]

^good info./

 

[nakadashi]

Hey guys, so I'm an importer and wanted to clear some things up. First, Wenzhou is a city on China that happens to be big on stainless steel manufacturing. Cities in China have reputations similar to how US cities do(Los Angeles is entertainment, Silicon Valley is tech, New York is finance and fashion, etc.). Shenzhen is the center of electronics production, Dongguan has a reputation for paper/pulp products, Ningbo is chemical, etc.

I've imported spools from China(and have another shipment coming in soon) with pretty reasonable success. Here are the main things you're going to run into:

1) Minimum order quantities. Usually just about >$2k to get any meaningful discount.

2) Shipping. Air mail is expensive. Ocean freight is much cheaper(what I'm using) but the waiting time is >40 days and you better have a sizeable order.

3) Finding a reputable vendor. Lots of companies are "trading companies" which essentially means they're middlemen. You won't find a whole lot of factories on Alibaba. More than likely the person you're contacting is just calling another company for a quote.

4) The Chinese know the value of the goods they sell and markup is insane. You will get swindled if you don't keep your wits about you. I've been quoted prices for certain parts at more than what I would pay retail from USA vendors.

5) There's definitely quite a few industries where it's cheaper to buy goods locally than it is to buy them overseas. Not sure if this applies here.

Communicating with the Chinese is difficult and their internal company communication is typically pretty bad. I'd say ~5 out of my last 10 shipments from China(from 4+ different vendors) had something wrong with them. Either it's defective merchandise, the wrong color product, something is missing, or specific instructions are ignored. This happens all the time.

The last time I ordered sanitary fittings they accidentally machined holes in all of my end caps instead of just a few of them. When I asked them to fix it they offered to discount my next order from by the amount that it cost me to have the holes filled in by a welder. That's a huge pain in the ass to deal with. On the positive side, the last order of spools worked perfectly and I'll have a bunch of affordable parts for sale in about 5 weeks. =).

Surprisingly, attitudes don't vary too much based on the value you provide as a customer. One company that I've spent >150k with this year alone refused to fix a $3k order. I stopped using them after that. Another vendor was totally cool about discounting orders that had mistakes in them despite me being a new customer. One thing is for sure though--there is no such thing as dispute resolution. If the order is big enough they'll just F you...even if they would make back their losses in the next 30 days.

When you pay extra for imported Chinese products from USA vendors you're paying for the transaction risk, the wait time, and the experience of the importer.

Thanks for the very legit info. You just saved me from a potential nightmare!

 

[Gray Wolf]

Hey guys, so I'm an importer and wanted to clear some things up. First, Wenzhou is a city on China that happens to be big on stainless steel manufacturing. Cities in China have reputations similar to how US cities do(Los Angeles is entertainment, Silicon Valley is tech, New York is finance and fashion, etc.). Shenzhen is the center of electronics production, Dongguan has a reputation for paper/pulp products, Ningbo is chemical, etc.

I've imported spools from China(and have another shipment coming in soon) with pretty reasonable success. Here are the main things you're going to run into:

1) Minimum order quantities. Usually just about >$2k to get any meaningful discount.

2) Shipping. Air mail is expensive. Ocean freight is much cheaper(what I'm using) but the waiting time is >40 days and you better have a sizeable order.

3) Finding a reputable vendor. Lots of companies are "trading companies" which essentially means they're middlemen. You won't find a whole lot of factories on Alibaba. More than likely the person you're contacting is just calling another company for a quote.

4) The Chinese know the value of the goods they sell and markup is insane. You will get swindled if you don't keep your wits about you. I've been quoted prices for certain parts at more than what I would pay retail from USA vendors.

5) There's definitely quite a few industries where it's cheaper to buy goods locally than it is to buy them overseas. Not sure if this applies here.

Communicating with the Chinese is difficult and their internal company communication is typically pretty bad. I'd say ~5 out of my last 10 shipments from China(from 4+ different vendors) had something wrong with them. Either it's defective merchandise, the wrong color product, something is missing, or specific instructions are ignored. This happens all the time.

The last time I ordered sanitary fittings they accidentally machined holes in all of my end caps instead of just a few of them. When I asked them to fix it they offered to discount my next order from by the amount that it cost me to have the holes filled in by a welder. That's a huge pain in the ass to deal with. On the positive side, the last order of spools worked perfectly and I'll have a bunch of affordable parts for sale in about 5 weeks. =).

Surprisingly, attitudes don't vary too much based on the value you provide as a customer. One company that I've spent >150k with this year alone refused to fix a $3k order. I stopped using them after that. Another vendor was totally cool about discounting orders that had mistakes in them despite me being a new customer. One thing is for sure though--there is no such thing as dispute resolution. If the order is big enough they'll just F you...even if they would make back their losses in the next 30 days.

When you pay extra for imported Chinese products from USA vendors you're paying for the transaction risk, the wait time, and the experience of the importer.

Thanks for the insight bro! How much are import taxes?

 

[RHH]

Thanks for the insight bro! How much are import taxes?

Sanitary fittings fall under HS code 7307.29.00 (5% duty). China has a habit of understating the cost of goods sold by 60-80% on the BOL(bill of lading) so the effective import tax rate is closer to 2-2.5%.

http://hts.usitc.gov/Table 73.xml .

For the above link...

Left column: The tax rate you're most likely to pay.
Center column: A special tax rate if you're importing from a country that has the products you're importing covered under a trade agreement.
Right column: The rate you pay if you want to import from a country that the US does not have trade relations with.

 

[RHH]

Thought I would update you guys...my container left China yesterday. Negotiating it all was a bitch and a half but well worth it. In ~2 weeks I'll have 12" spools with high pressure 2-bolt clamps and 12" end caps. Enough to build more mk5's than I have fingers and toes. Plan is to build 3-5 extractors for me and sell the rest of the parts.

Here's to hoping the tolerances check out! I'll post photos when they arrive.

 

[Gray Wolf]

WolfWurx finally completed negotiations and has one each prototype Mk IV and Mk V parts kit ordered for approval, before ordering production quantities.

 

[prune]

It's great to see the entrepreneurial spirit rise and satisfy the intense demand for SS spools and lids, but how about utilizing these newfound links to import sanitary SS butane recovery and storage vessels?

 

[RHH]

WolfWurx finally completed negotiations and has one each prototype Mk IV and Mk V parts kit ordered for approval, before ordering production quantities.

Great news. They're in my backyard too... are licensing rights still available? I'm thinking about giving selling complete kits a try in the next 2-4 months if I'm not completely swamped by other work.

 

[RHH]

It's great to see the entrepreneurial spirit rise and satisfy the intense demand for SS spools and lids, but how about utilizing these newfound links to import sanitary SS butane recovery and storage vessels?

I would trust a DOT approved refrigerant tank over the homemade variety.. and there isn't much room for margins there unless you are bringing a full container load. Even then, there are markets that im familiar with that are more accessible and more profitable. Mature industries are hard to penetrate.

 

[RHH]

Ho ho ho,

Santa came late this year. Posting pics tomorrow!