LED to replace HPS, need real answers

[sahdgrower]

Typical. Anecdotal. Out of my depth? PPPPPFffffff. I may not be an experienced pot grower but I am a keen observer of detail. I am old enough and wise enough to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff. I would bet dollars to donuts (although a good donut can cost more than a buck these days...) there are many LED growers growing insane nuggetry. Furthermore you can go to the supermarket and buy a nice red shiny apple that tastes like cardboard, or you can pick one off the tree in my yard that is rather unattractive but sweet as honey! For you to dismiss this is just childish. For you to insult me on what was purely an effort to add some precision to the conversation shows that you are not approaching this with open eyes and therefore your opinion is significantly diminished IMHO.

 

[hempfield]

Show me a Bare bulb Led grow that gets plants like Heath Robinson and can beat his GpKWH and I'll listen but you are so out your depth its funny!!


For those of you not familiar with Heath here, this is how he grows -

https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=20659&pictureid=478103

https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=20659&pictureid=478910

Led WTF???

This can be an example : http://www.vanqled.com/ledgrowlight/index_xx.asp?id=619

 

[Mate Dave]

No it can't

No it can't

This can be an example : http://www.vanqled.com/ledgrowlight/index_xx.asp?id=619

That is a good example of how to put a pound in another man's pocket before you will see any profit in yours.


VerdentGreen is the only grower I listen to about what is achievable on a horizontal garden from Led's, They are well worth the effort but not comparable or nothing like growing under a HPS.

 

[VerdantGreen]

from my experience of using a 250w hps (that actually uses 300w from the wall - most hps use a bit higher than rated), and a few different LEDs at wattages under that, in the same space, i would say that you can reduce that actual watts used about 20-30% with LED to get the same results, which are likely to be a bit better quality.
the other thing with LEDS, imo, is that to play to their advantages, 4 smaller LED fixtures in your 4x4 would work better than one big one in the middle. that gets expensive though, but as you said thats your problem . forget the companys rating of the LED fixture, its the watts they use from the wall that matters, and the quality of their components.

VG

 

[NugzBunny]

Side note on Measuring Efficiency

Side note on Measuring Efficiency

I've always had an issue with using grams per watt to measure efficiency of a grow. Like was mentioned above several times, veg time can be different. Suppose a 1000 watt light is used. If you veg for 4 weeks, you've put more energy into the plant than someone who veggs for 3 weeks. If these people get the same yield of 1000g, then grams per watt will be 1 for both; even though the 4 week vegger has put more electricity (and money!) into their plant, and is less efficient in my book.

Grams per watt seems like a silly measurement of efficiency. Instead, to calculate efficiency, take (watts used)*(time on) = (total energy used) and divide grams bythat to get a better idea of efficiency.

 

[Mate Dave]

I've always had an issue with using grams per watt to measure efficiency of a grow. Like was mentioned above several times, veg time can be different. Suppose a 1000 watt light is used. If you veg for 4 weeks, you've put more energy into the plant than someone who veggs for 3 weeks. If these people get the same yield of 1000g, then grams per watt will be 1 for both; even though the 4 week vegger has put more electricity (and money!) into their plant, and is less efficient in my book.

Grams per watt seems like a silly measurement of efficiency. Instead, to calculate efficiency, take (watts used)*(time on) = (total energy used) and divide grams bythat to get a better idea of efficiency.

GPW = Grams per Twatt

GpKWH = Grams Per Kilo Watt Hours used.

 

[sahdgrower]

Wow Dave thanks for repeating exactly what I said. Especially since you insulted me for it. If you are repeating what I said even though I am so out of my depth...... what does that say about you?

 

[Snype]

Lets not get the thread closed. Some good details so far. Learn to get along somehow. We are all in this together my brothers and sisters.

 

[sahdgrower]

Im sorry Mate Dave. Snype is right. Pot growers are suppposed to be mellow. I will not write any more combative posts. Internet is too full of that junk. We are here to learn and help

 

[habeeb]

if you want you can do it..

it's going to cost you a boat load though replacing 1000 watts.

somewhere around $2,000 off the top of my head. I did not add up anything, but could later... main point is it's way over what a 1000 would cost you

you need spread out bars ( heatsinks ) with the like's of xm-l2 chips.

have to run scrog / lst / topped plants as there's not much penetration.


you can also run the higher cobbs driving them lower watt, say 20-30 watt each chip, of course spread out.




whatever you do, do not use CW or NW !!! I would no matter what you choose run some high CRi WW ( 2,700k ) possibly some 660nm

my bars are almost hitting half watts used, so comfortable I would say 650-680 watts would compare to the 1000

 

[Sativa Dragon]

YA we all gotta get along, for sure, HPS is for growing Knarly buds at a premium a bit maybe, Led is for growing good buds all around Maybe?

Peace

 

[LEDfoot]

Getting back to the OP, if I wanted to get 4x4 coverage I'd buy (4) Lumigrow Pro 325 currently selling for $752 each, delivered from growershouse. Join the "grow crew" for $10 and get a price of $737.

That's what I would do. Adds up to more than 1000W, though.

I haven't searched for actual cannabis results with Illumitex but for a 3ft x 3ft area I would strongly consider a pair of NeoSol 300W.

Side note: My personal reason for spending thousands on LED fixtures is a disabled family member living in an old farm house.

 

[second time]

the truth of led is harsh but needs to be said. (avid led fan) led watt for watt replacement will result in a 30% minimum reduction in yield with a 30% longer growing time. that's if you get an all singing all dancing led light. if you get a shite one that people are spewing out of factory's quoting fantastic yields etc your probably going to suffer more. that being said, if you where to get an all singing led the bud tastes the same if not better almost more mature than hps. heat wont be an issue nor will constant watering plus grow enclosure can be reduced to just accommodate the plants and light. <---big bonus for stealth. they are continually working on led technology to be capable of growning tomatoes in space. as we speak people are flooding the market with micro led panels boasting awsume results. 3w panels that will out perform hps/mh my advice would be to go through the sites and look for ones that arnt flashing results everywhere. there products speak for themselves. happy growing and happy living

 

[habeeb]

"Side note: My personal reason for spending thousands on LED fixtures is a disabled family member living in an old farm house. "


HAHA, I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing !!!

are you meaning your gonking there money to stay at your farm house? or can you tell me more. hahaha


yes LED is expensive, I know.. look at my albums.. I got at least 4k in LED right now I'm running, and that's current, had a lot of other led's models in my time I've sold off.

 

[PetFlora]

Lower harvest is the result of poor diode spectral balance, insufficient lumens per watt, and for those who grow where ambient temps are < 70*F, not enough warmth. My experience with same strains is: leds finish EARLIER than my 8 bulb hot5

the truth of led is harsh but needs to be said. (avid led fan) led watt for watt replacement will result in a 30% minimum reduction in yield with a 30% longer growing time. that's if you get an all singing all dancing led light. if you get a shite one that people are spewing out of factory's quoting fantastic yields etc your probably going to suffer more. that being said, if you where to get an all singing led the bud tastes the same if not better almost more mature than hps. heat wont be an issue nor will constant watering plus grow enclosure can be reduced to just accommodate the plants and light. <---big bonus for stealth. they are continually working on led technology to be capable of growning tomatoes in space. as we speak people are flooding the market with micro led panels boasting awsume results. 3w panels that will out perform hps/mh my advice would be to go through the sites and look for ones that arnt flashing results everywhere. there products speak for themselves. happy growing and happy living

 

[kzk4205]

all about the sun

all about the sun

Hey all - so.. this is not for the closet guy but here is possibly the best light to hit the market in terms of LED. I am doing some research and found this one and plan on getting it once i can save up the $$. Check out the light spectrum coverage (attached) and tell me what you think! BTW it also costs a butt load of money.
any ???s, let me know
Specs are:

C2 Lens and heat sink - temps run high on this at full power but that is good if you are looking to cover a larger area. R/T: -20/+50C (remember we're trying to replicate the plants natural environment).


Wavelength Range- 380-850nm
Power: 255W
LED: 63.75W x 4Pcs LED
PAR/200mm: 3860
DIMS: L13.19xW13.19x3.4
It also has a 3-yr warranty, easy disassembly, anti-drip, anti-insect and an anti-fading design.

 

[SupraSPL]

whatever you do, do not use CW or NW !!! I would no matter what you choose run some high CRi WW ( 2,700k ) possibly some 660nm

Check out Mr Flux's work on Cree CXA analysis. He applied calculus to convert a variety of SPD graphs into PAR watts so we can figure out which LED is actually creating more photons (he calculated LER). The very cool white, very warm white and high CRI leds had the lowest efficiency. 3000K turned out to be the value point, at least with those phosphors.

It really would be helpful if manufacturers would include radiometric data and more complete and accurate SPD curves. I understand the SPD shifts around as operating temp and operating current changes and that may complicate the issue.

 

[SupraSPL]

Check out the light spectrum coverage (attached) and tell me what you think

To critique the light, it claims to be dissipating 255w in about 1 sq ft. You can't imagine what the junction temps would be.

Currently there are no high CRI, UV, far red or infrared LEDs that are very efficient. So if they have included that in this the lamps radiometric efficiency is probably low to begin with. In all honesty I believe an HPS would 5X better than this light.

 

[kzk4205]

Not for closet

Not for closet

again, the specs above are for a larger grow area, something like a 4x4 or even 6x8. The Refractive index is ~5.1, much broader than typical led lights out on the market today. This thing will probably run hot..yes, but if its 24-36" above the canopy then we should be ok. no? (4) 65 watt diodes is what blows my mind, is that going to be overkill? Their lenses help with it in some way, so for a larger garden (not 1 sq ft.) wont it benefit...especially since it hits the needed spectrums?

 

[LEDfoot]

"Side note: My personal reason for spending thousands on LED fixtures is a disabled family member living in an old farm house. "


HAHA, I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing !!!

are you meaning your gonking there money to stay at your farm house? or can you tell me more. hahaha


yes LED is expensive, I know.. look at my albums.. I got at least 4k in LED right now I'm running, and that's current, had a lot of other led's models in my time I've sold off.

Well, that is pretty much the situation. I gave up a promising (second) career to be a caregiver/caremanager/maintenance man.

(I should add that this isn't unfairly exploiting the elder person--things have been vetted with my siblings and an elder law attorney.)