High Brix soil grow

[xmobotx]

the trick is making the conversion for volume from the lbs/acre info

all that info is in the ideal soil book

 

[paint4420]

I understand the conversion to volume. The queation was what to amend with if im looking at maintaining a close toperfect ratio. Im aware it wont ever be spot on. So my question remains "what do I ammend with?"

Say im low in borron copper and magnesium do I just find an amendment that is rich in all of these or do I ammend each one Individually. Juat looking for a straregy to picking amendments to get the ratio right is really what im after.

 

[EclipseFour20]

the trick is making the conversion for volume from the lbs/acre info

all that info is in the ideal soil book

My $0.02--when converting lbs/acre to "5 gallon containers" one can go down several paths with two completely different answers.

1. Linear conversion--lb/acre to grams/sq foot. Assuming the requirement is 435.6 lbs/acre (1 acre = 43560 sq ft) then that equates to 1lb/100 sq feet (453.59 grams/100 sq feet)....or 4.54 grams per sq foot. Which arguably is about the same "surface area" of a 5 gallon container....more or less. (So short cut to convert "per acre" to "per container" is to divide "per acre" quantity by 43560).

2. Plant conversion--lb/acre to grams/plant. Tobacco plants are planted at 7500-8000/acre, dark tobacco 4500-5000/acre, staked tomatoes 3600-5800/acre...to space plants 22 inches apart in rows that are 5 feet apart requires 4760 plants per acre--at 6-foot centers and 18 inches requires 4840 plants per acre.

So lets assume 5000 plants per acre and the requirement is 435.6 lbs/acre....then that equates to 0.08712 lbs/plant (435.60 ÷ 5000) or 39.51 grams/plant. (So short cut to convert "per acre" to "per container" is to divide "per acre" quantity by 5000).

Hmmm...4.54 grams vs 39.51 grams, which is "correct"? Difference between the two is almost a factor of 10! IMHO, somewhere between the two is probably the correct answer...after all "thems just guidelines" (pirate voice), right?

Cheers!

 

[waktoo]

I understand the conversion to volume. The queation was what to amend with if im looking at maintaining a close toperfect ratio. Im aware it wont ever be spot on. So my question remains "what do I ammend with?"

Say im low in borron copper and magnesium do I just find an amendment that is rich in all of these or do I ammend each one Individually. Juat looking for a straregy to picking amendments to get the ratio right is really what im after.

You'll want to use the amendments that are listed by the NOP and accepted for use in organic food production. There's a list in the book.

When balancing soil minerology, you have to start by figuring out how much weight you need of each elemental ion. One dictates the next. Start with the base cations (Ca, Mg, K, Na), then the anions (P in the form of P2O5, S in the form of SO4), and then the trace elements.

The materials you use will most likely be determined by how easy each one is to source. Shipping on 50# of oyster shell is a bitch. You have to figure out what materials you are going to use based on what elements you need the most of, and what ACTUAL weight percentage of the needed element is present in the material used to provide it.

It's tricky figurin' because the materials that we use have different elemental components that make them up, but you may not need all of what's available in said material to correct the mineral imbalance of your soil. So you have to choose the specific materials based on what is required by the soil.

For Boron, you'd use borax (9% by weight B), easily found at you local grocery store in the detergent section.

Copper and Magnesium will be provided by the sulfate forms of each. Both of these items can be sourced from feed stores in your area. They are used as supplements in livestock feed.

I'm curious as to what edition of "The Ideal Soil" that you have. Did your conversions from #/acre to #/cubic foot (or yard) come from chapter 7 "The Soil Prescription"?

 

[waktoo]

I forgot to mention that when using sulfates to balance trace elements or base cations, the sulfate portion of your prescription seems to work out like magic. So don't worry about balancing sulfur right off the bat. If you've done every thing else right, it'll be right.

 

[paint4420]

Ahh that give me a handle on what I will need to do. Basically throw together thought out ideal mix» test» reamend based on weight of needed material using organic based amendments high in x » shove rabbits foot up ass »test again? Sound about right? Haha I know the ratios will probally never come out exact id just be happy to get close to good enough.With out throwing everything else out of wack that is. I guess for the home gardener its a bit of an art/work/time to getting it correct.

Am I over thinking it?

 

[GEMiNi GENETiCS]

Yes over thinking it to some extent. Nothing better than getting your hands dirty ...... I run a rich mix that covers the basics..... amend as needed mid season ...... after harvest get it tested and reamend again to fix what was missing . ..... some by eye and others by testing.

Some things you can learn in a book and others in the field ...... their great to point you in the general direction and put ya in the ball park.

Great convoy and info here guys!

 

[waktoo]

Ahh that give me a handle on what I will need to do. Basically throw together thought out ideal mix» test» reamend based on weight of needed material using organic based amendments high in x » shove rabbits foot up ass »test again? Sound about right? Haha I know the ratios will probally never come out exact id just be happy to get close to good enough.With out throwing everything else out of wack that is. I guess for the home gardener its a bit of an art/work/time to getting it correct.

Am I over thinking it?

Forgive me, but I'm a bit confused. You have had your soil tested, correct? Have you read "The Ideal Soil"? It sounds like you don't know how to interpret the info in the soil report and then do the calculations necessary to determine how much of which elements need to be added to the soil. If you test, then calculate and amend, you won't need to test again until after the first grow in the balanced soil, at the earliest. I intend to do several no till grows in my newly balanced soil before I have it tested again for re amending.

Do you need some help figuring this stuff out? I read the book three times before I had what I felt was a solid grasp of the info contained within it.
I'm willing to help you out if you need it.

 

[paint4420]

Nope havnt read the book. All my money is being concentrated into gear and medical bills at this point. No soil or amendments purchased yet. And im starting from scratch with one grow under my belt so forgive me if im a little slow.. also I didnt do too well in biology class in high school haha.

I appreciate the current help but I admit it is a bit over my head at this point untill I get an actual test back. Ill try to order the book asap.

If it means anything I will be going with a calckamas coots recipe probally modified to what ever is readily availible (eureaka springs organics) . And will have that tested before I plant. Then select new amendments based on Test results amd formulas/recomendations per "the ideal soil" book.

Really im just trying to get a game plan to tuning the soil for a high brix grow.

I feel like I should read more before posting

 

[bobblehead]

I bought my refractometer for $30 on ebay. It works just fine. Its not a particularly advanced tool... So you don't have to spend a bunch of money on one. Better to spend some money on a good tensiometer imo.

Put some worms in your no till beds to mix the soil up... They are part of the soil food web dontcha know.

 

[paint4420]

Gonna have to give all sorts of good rep here! Haha good call on the tensiometer tbis is exactly the tool I was looking for to take good control of a blumat system. Inferesting you can do a similar drip setup with an automated tensiometer. Maybe for later

Could you recomend a good one. I saw one on amazon for 85 but I need to buy a calibration kit?
Also could you share some of your experiences with it? What sort of levels do you find work best? I read these have to be serviced bi weekly. Im fine with this wondering your thoughts.
Thanks In Advance as a newb im still not quite sure what the diffrence between good and perfect soil moisture levels and this should help me get a grasp on it. Im assuming finding the best most consistent moisture levels will translate to higher brix.

 

[waktoo]

I bought my refractometer for $30 on ebay. It works just fine. Its not a particularly advanced tool... So you don't have to spend a bunch of money on one. Better to spend some money on a good tensiometer imo.

Put some worms in your no till beds to mix the soil up... They are part of the soil food web dontcha know.

I would assume that this was for me? What brand did you order, and how long have you been using it?

 

[waktoo]

Gonna have to give all sorts of good rep here! Haha good call on the tensiometer tbis is exactly the tool I was looking for to take good control of a blumat system. Inferesting you can do a similar drip setup with an automated tensiometer. Maybe for later

Could you recomend a good one. I saw one on amazon for 85 but I need to buy a calibration kit?
Also could you share some of your experiences with it? What sort of levels do you find work best? I read these have to be serviced bi weekly. Im fine with this wondering your thoughts.
Thanks In Advance as a newb im still not quite sure what the diffrence between good and perfect soil moisture levels and this should help me get a grasp on it. Im assuming finding the best most consistent moisture levels will translate to higher brix.

IME, sub-irrigated planters (SIP's) allow for fine irrigation control, without the need for a new meter and calibration kits. The plant hydrates itself as it needs it. I'm not knocking the tensiometer (never heard of them before now), or how it may benefit an automated watering system. Just seems easier to top of a reservoir by hand when it needs it...

 

[paint4420]

Probally a topic better reserved for the bumats thread. My assumption was they were adjustable as to the levels of moisture the grower would desire and not the plants them selfs.... if that isnt the case I could see the meter being invaluable in making sure the moisture levels are accurate and consistant . The analog would be having a thermometer in your oven , Just accuracy is all.

 

[joe fresh]

Adding 1 cup of 6-5-3 to 2.0 CF of soil (25% happy frog 75% peat perlite mix) 6-5-3 = 6 parts Calcium Carbonate 90% pure or better CaCo3(Limestone not Dolomite Lime) 5 parts Soft Rock Phosphate and 3 parts gypsum
3 quarts EWC
1/2 cupAzomite
1/2 cup Bone Meal
Mycos

mix it pour microbial tea over soil mix and let it cook 1 month in warm place, making sure it does not dry out during the cook period. like I said I didnt create this this was formulated for me for high brix by ag lab

No math needed it is already done here 6-5-3 is the core for mineralization , no meters needed. its still the same organics just taken to another level, except this is calculated by ag lab and eliminates the nutty professor syndrome.This is not to say that other soils won't pass the test...only that this was the first soil that I had tested that made it.

FFOF-fail
SubCool Super Soil-fail

ProMix HP-passed, borderline high on Potassium.
FF Happy Frog partially passed had to amend with peat

I started off gardening with salt based ferts and had great results, then tried organics and fell in love with the taste and smells of organics, then high brix comes along and takes my organics to a much higher complex level of taste, smell and medication.

maybe i am missing something...but isnt promix hp inert with no nutes(other than mykos if you get that bag) other than a small starter formula thats good for a few days?

it would seem weird to me that a peat/perlite mix would pass and be borderline high on P....care to explain and tell me what the tests on promix hp were?

i currently use promix hp with myco...but i feed every feeding with a plain water once a week, plants look great...wondering if maybe you made a mistake?

other than that great thread man, good info in here!

 

[bobblehead]

Gonna have to give all sorts of good rep here! Haha good call on the tensiometer tbis is exactly the tool I was looking for to take good control of a blumat system. Inferesting you can do a similar drip setup with an automated tensiometer. Maybe for later

Could you recomend a good one. I saw one on amazon for 85 but I need to buy a calibration kit?
Also could you share some of your experiences with it? What sort of levels do you find work best? I read these have to be serviced bi weekly. Im fine with this wondering your thoughts.
Thanks In Advance as a newb im still not quite sure what the diffrence between good and perfect soil moisture levels and this should help me get a grasp on it. Im assuming finding the best most consistent moisture levels will translate to higher brix.

I would assume that this was for me? What brand did you order, and how long have you been using it?

Look for a 0-30 sugar refractometer on ebay. I forget the vendor, but they claimed to have the most accurate model available, and it was only $30. Its the same refractometer used for beer and wine. I've been using mine for 5-6 months now. Its just a prism that bends light.

My tensiometer is a blumat digital from sustainablevillage.com, and it cost $50. Sustainablevillage recommends 150-180mbar moisture level for cannabis... Funny how they know who their customers are. . I find that moisture level to be good. Soil moisture most definitely affects brix.

IME, sub-irrigated planters (SIP's) allow for fine irrigation control, without the need for a new meter and calibration kits. The plant hydrates itself as it needs it. I'm not knocking the tensiometer (never heard of them before now), or how it may benefit an automated watering system. Just seems easier to top of a reservoir by hand when it needs it...

Sub irrigation works... Roots adapt to that method and I'm sure you're plants do just fine... However with passive bottom fed irrigation, the plants have to spend more energy sending their roots to the bottom where the water is, and that water has to travel up the plant via osmosis. Idk how you run your garden. Mine is top fed with drains in the bottom. I don't irrigate to the point of runoff, b/c that would cause me to overwater my beds, and then my worms might crawl out in addition to drowning my plants. I irrigate when the plants need it, and no sooner.



A tensiometer is invaluable when it comes to dialing in blumats. I've had tons of problems guessing how much moisture my plants need. Now that I use a tensiometer, I have almost 0 problems. Being a commercial cropper I need consistent results.

 

[waktoo]

Look for a 0-30 sugar refractometer on ebay. I forget the vendor, but they claimed to have the most accurate model available, and it was only $30. Its the same refractometer used for beer and wine. I've been using mine for 5-6 months now. Its just a prism that bends light.

My tensiometer is a blumat digital from sustainablevillage.com, and it cost $50. Sustainablevillage recommends 150-180mbar moisture level for cannabis... Funny how they know who their customers are. . I find that moisture level to be good. Soil moisture most definitely affects brix.




Sub irrigation works... Roots adapt to that method and I'm sure you're plants do just fine... However with passive bottom fed irrigation, the plants have to spend more energy sending their roots to the bottom where the water is, and that water has to travel up the plant via osmosis. Idk how you run your garden. Mine is top fed with drains in the bottom. I don't irrigate to the point of runoff, b/c that would cause me to overwater my beds, and then my worms might crawl out in addition to drowning my plants. I irrigate when the plants need it, and no sooner.



A tensiometer is invaluable when it comes to dialing in blumats. I've had tons of problems guessing how much moisture my plants need. Now that I use a tensiometer, I have almost 0 problems. Being a commercial cropper I need consistent results.

I appreciate the feedback. Commercial cropping is most definitely a different beast...

 

[Avinash.miles]

good thread!

 

[mohammed romney]

Hey guys was wondering about moisture level in brix grows. Is it best practice to do a moist / dry cycle or does that soil biology flourish in a consistently moist environment?

 

[rasputin]

Consistently moist.

From Colorado State's 'The Living Soil'

Water effectively. Soil organisms require an environment that is damp (like a wrung out sponge) but not soggy, between 50–90°F. Soil organism activity may be reduced due to dry soil conditions that are common in the fall and winter. Avoid over-irrigation because water-logged soils will be harmful to beneficial soil organisms.