Growing to support my family, got a crop full of this strange deficiency, pic inside

[mitygrows]

Over water

 

[papaduc]

the coco itself sometimes comes with lots of potassium

Only if it hasn't been washed and buffered properly.

You can get bad batches of compost, faulty ballasts, dodgy bulbs, just like you can get moldy bread, rotten apples...

Test it before you use it.

 

[Ole MacDonald]

I agree with Overgro and some of what Papa said...

In addition, I would add that the ph of your water going in is not nearly as important as the ph of your run-off. Catch some of that run-off midstream and measure it right away! If it's way off, then your watering issue is probably leading to root disease as well.

Someone earlier mentioned that they did not understand why flushing is the "go to" method for problems. The answer to this is that it is hard sometimes to tell exactly what the problem is (especially over a forum), and flushing and replacing the nutes and bennies is a great way to hit the reset button. If I were you this is exactly what I would do to cover all bases:

STEP 1: First measure your run-off. Catch the water coming out earlier than later, so you can get a good idea of the ph the roots were actually seeing. If you catch the last few drips coming out, it will not be as accurate a depiction of the ph that was in your growing medium before you watered.

STEP 2: I would flush the growing medium with H2O2 @ 3ml/gal if you are using 29%. 2 TBSP/gal if you are using the 3%. This will oxygenate while you flush, is a safe level for roots, and it will kill bad bacteria that may be growing. It will also flush any salts that may have built up. (on a side note 200ppm cal/mag is really high, and you shouldn't need to use much if your nutes are worth their "salt")

At this point, the plants have no food available, and no bacteria (good or bad) in the growing medium. If bacteria were leading to ph problems, eliminating them will correct the ph imbalance.

STEP 3: Once you flush, immediately water with a 50-70% strength complete nutrient solution with Aquashield added @ 10ml/gal. The Aquashield will add beneficials to your growing medium which will prevent the bad bacteria from coming back. Whether you over-watered, or under-watered, or under-watered first and then over-watered.... any of these things cause root problems. The half strength nute solution will allow the plant to recover from lock-out as well as provide enough for a deficient plant to recover.

Deficiencies are more often caused by improper ph (in the growing medium), over or under watering, root disease, lock-out, etc. It is rarely not having enough food in the growing medium.

It looks to me like the roots have been damaged, and that is a breeding ground for disease. Disease will coat the roots, cutting them off from their food supply. Disease will also cause drastic ph fluctuations, which also makes many nutrients unavailable for uptake by roots. Feeding them more is probably the last thing they need.

Just my two cents.

Best of luck!!!

 

[Ole MacDonald]

Forgot to mention, the H2O2 will also remove some decaying matter that resulted from damaged roots, which will help clean up your growing medium. =)

 

[Ole MacDonald]

Yeah what he said. =)

 

[ChemDgMillionre]

This garden is your healthier one?
Your in big trouble kid. WAY OVERWATERED!
The leaves should be reaching for the sky. You are snuffing out the oxygen they need...ie.... suffocating them.
I would back WAAAAAY off on the watering and let the leaves get the oxygen they need to absorb the nutrients. IN the mean time....back up abit on the nutes as well and let the plants absorb whats already in there that they couldnt get while drowning.
The leaves should look like this....
View Image

They are getting everything they need, when they need it, as they need it. No more/No less.
I actually "cycle" my soil by letting the plants use most of the moisture in the bucket before watering them. They start to droop abit and thats them telling me they are thirsty again.

^^^^^ this... i too was a little surprised by your 'healthy' garden, and even more surprised that over-watering wasnt mentioned until the second page. don't keep dumping water in the pot if its heavy, let the girls drink it up. careful tho, if u let OGs go wicked dry for too long they'll turn on the yellow quick.

my fix would be as follows...
1. dont water until you can EASILY pickup the pot
2. when you do return to watering, my first hit would be with h2o2, this is going to bring MUCH needed oxygen to the root zone, while killing off any root rot or fungus youve been cultivating down there.
3. they def are mg locked, so stay on the cal/mag while using h2o2.
4. when new growth is picking / perking back up i'd mix up a myco tea & hit them with that, as the h2o2 woulda wiped out any colonies.

 

[ChemDgMillionre]

He is growing in coco fellas, almost impossible to over water but easy to underwater and not flush out excess nutes causing a lockout. OP did not say drain to waste and has not mentioned run-off so if he is treating coco like soil then it could be simple.
Questions, do you have roots poking out of your smart pots? How many times a day do you water and runoff amount? Lets keep you eating...NS

^^^^ LOL, that is just wrong. it is very easy to overwater in COCO... when someone keeps dumping buckets of water in the pot every day, before the plant has a chance to drink it all, the girl becomes over watered and problems COMPOUND FAST. believe me, my bro and his gf are chronic 'over-waterers'. stopping this problem is as easy as picking up each pot before you water, thats it, bottom line.

 

[OvergrowDaWorld]

^^^^Listen to this guy SurfingRob. He'll get you back on track. Ignore everything else and follow step by step what ChemD said. If you dont...you deserve what you get in the end.
Put on your listening ears and you just may save your entire investment.
Pick up a bucket when its almost dry, and the fan leaf stem is soft and starting to droop.
Pick up a bucket the day after watering it.
Compare the two. See how light the buckets can get before you have to water again? Good!
HOLY SHIT!!! Your a caregiver?!?! Thats putting the cart before the horse..... dont you think?
I didnt even catch that until just now back peddling to find your name....
Those gardens arent gonna take care of anything if you dont follow ChemD's steps.

 

[Mister_D]

As several have mentioned already, looks like you have been overwatering (drooping leaves). This is causing lockout (mag def is the yellow leaves, cal def is the purple stems and rust spots on the leaves). You need to start by taking a core sample (shot glass or so worth of coco from one of the affected pots), mix that coco 50/50 with ro or distilled water (has to be ro or distilled, preferably distilled), allow that mixture to sit for a 1/2 hour, then strain the coco from the water and measure EC/PPM and ph. That will tell you exactly what is going on in your coco (ph and nute concentration wise) This is referred to as a "slurry test", it is much more accurate than testing runoff (which is almost completely worthless for correct information). Any of you doubting me on the run off test, get three jars and collect runoff from a single pot of your choice. Wait 10 seconds between collecting each sample from the same pot. Then measure all three, and tell me how much difference you notice between the three.

Slurry test results in hand, this what you'd do.
1. If your ph is low (5.5 or below) start watering at 6.0 ph until the problems clear then resume ph of 5.8

2. If ph is high (6.0 or above) water at 5.5 until things improve then return to 5.8

3. If nutes are too high (1.5EC or above) flush with 1/2 strength nutes until another slurry test confirms you are back in the ok zone (0.8-1.5 EC). Never flush a coco plant with straight water. It fucks up the CEC causing you to have more lock out issues.

4. If nutes are too low (1.0EC or less) bump up feed strength to 1.5 EC until/if tip burn occurs then back off to 1.0-1.2EC.

Lastly, once you have EC and PH back in line, you'll need to work on your watering frequency. Try giving them half as much water as you have been at the same intervals (i.e you water a 1/2 gal. every couple days normally, try a 1/4 gal. every couple days instead).

 

[Ole MacDonald]

One thing I would respectfully say in response to Overgro and ChemD's advice is, if you have root rot occurring in your growing medium, doing nothing is not going to fix the problem. It will kill your plants. Overwatering often times leads to root rot, because it suffocates roots, and deprives them of oxygen. I recommended testing your runoff ph, so that you could test whether or not there is a serious root problem. It is important to know what is going on in there before taking advice from anyone.

It hard to understand that it is not "air" that roots need, it is oxygen. Deep water culture growers supply zero air to roots, and they grow just fine, because the water they are sitting in is highly oxygenated. Flushing with water containing H2O2 will not only kill bad bacteria, but it will also deliver a massive dose of oxygen to roots that badly need it. If your runoff ph is far from the 5.8 you are giving it, then you most definitely have a bacterial problem, and you would be wise to address it, instead of doing nothing.

There are many different paths to the top of the mountain. Just make sure you are heading up the right mountain. ;-)

OM

 

[Ole MacDonald]

I should also add that, in my humble opinion, ChemD and Overgro's advice is very good once you are sure you are not dealing with root rot. If you were to find the ph was way off, kill root rot with H2O2, and then add beneficials via Aquashield or whatever... then you would definitely want to follow their instructions to a tee to be sure you don't end up with the same problem again!

Much love to all the folks trying to help... as well as those in need.

 

[ChemDgMillionre]

Ole Mac -- your probably right, your logic is sound, but i would have a hard time flushing (even while using h2o2) bc the root system will be extremely fragile, so that volume of water isnt going to help.. im telling yall from experience, ive had much better results when i let the pot dry out before doing the h2o2 treatment.

& listen to Mr D on the slurry test, thats the only accurate way to test coco ph. if its root rot youll be gettin a fishy smell & browning slimy roots. a healthy plant will have fat furry WHITE roots, and the rootzone wont smell like a vag.

good luck! youll get it under control quick, your jumping on it in time to save it

 

[Ole MacDonald]

Right on ChemD. I have only done two runs in my life in coco, so I will definitely admit it is not my forte.

I guess I have a question then. If the plant has a severe case of root rot or slime, isn't it hard for the plant to uptake water? I am very comfortable in Sun #4, and the H2O2 method has worked very well for me in that growing medium in the past, but I have never tried it in coco. I have considered give coco another shot lately, but I'm busy playing with RDWC at the moment.

In Sunshine Mix, when I waited for the pot (severely overwatered plants) to dry out in the past, it took forever and usually it dried from the top down, killing most of the roots in the top half of the bucket. When I used H2O2, followed by compost tea, it seemed to resume water uptake much faster, and as a result, I didn't lose roots due to the top drying out.

Disclaimer: I'm one of those people with partners, so I am putting out fires all the time. Yes, I know everyone advises against partners. ;-)

Thanks a bunch for sharing your knowledge ChemD!

 

[OvergrowDaWorld]

if its root rot youll be gettin a fishy smell & browning slimy roots. a healthy plant will have fat furry WHITE roots, and the rootzone wont smell like a vag.

*Spits morning coffee all over the keyboard*

 

[papaduc]

From his other thread:

PH is always adjust to 5.8 before watering and I water about every other day, I allow them to dry out between waterings and I'm VERY careful not to water too often.

I do allow the plants to dry out, especially when they have been freshly transplanted. Once they get light from lack of water I hit them with water. I am very careful not to water too often.

 

[Snype]

Best thing to do is check pH of run off. It may not be overwatering. I will bet you guys $100 that his pH is off. I see pH problems all over those plants.

 

[sahdgrower]

OP never ruled out root aphids. Why?

 

[RetroGrow]

^^^^ LOL, that is just wrong. it is very easy to overwater in COCO... when someone keeps dumping buckets of water in the pot every day, before the plant has a chance to drink it all, the girl becomes over watered and problems COMPOUND FAST. believe me, my bro and his gf are chronic 'over-waterers'. stopping this problem is as easy as picking up each pot before you water, thats it, bottom line.

Simply not true in my experience. I use Hempy buckets with coco, and they are saturated EVERY day to runoff. They are never allowed to dry out. Many folks use drippers with coco, which water continuously, and they have no problems. Unless the coco is broken down from using it over & over again, you cannot over water quality coco. Coco is a hydro medium, which is why it works so well in Hempy buckets, which have a rez which is always kept full of water and never allowed to dry out. Coco=hydro medium.

 

[Coconutz]

Holy shit.
The only way to over water in coco is not watering enough! That lets the roots sit in stagnant water too long. Replace the water and replace the o2
Coco is like 20% air homies. You do know roots grow underwater with less air than that, right?
When I was having trouble with coco I asked questions on the forums.
Motherfuckers kept telling me I was overwatering.
The problems never got better and I had shitty results.
Dont let your coco start to dry damn it!
I went back to H3ads thread and he said its impossible to overwater coco. He fixes problems by watering more often.
I decided I was just going to water more often and my plants took off.
Dont listen to shit anyone says.
Go back to the basics and follow directions.
Lose that GH cal mag and water with just base atleast once a day.
Peace

 

[Coconutz]

^^^^ LOL, that is just wrong. it is very easy to overwater in COCO... when someone keeps dumping buckets of water in the pot every day, before the plant has a chance to drink it all, the girl becomes over watered and problems COMPOUND FAST. believe me, my bro and his gf are chronic 'over-waterers'. stopping this problem is as easy as picking up each pot before you water, thats it, bottom line.

They either dont grow in coco, they are using too much nute per watering, they are adding too much shit to their base nutes, or theres some environmental issue.
They are not over watering their coco unless their coco is coffee ground shit that isnt fibrous like it should be.
We use coco because it holds a bunch of air when its full of water. Its hydro unless you arent doing it properly/
Peace