Growing to support my family, got a crop full of this strange deficiency, pic inside

[surfingrob]

Could really use a hand with this, this deficiency is going to ruin my yields.

Growing under 1000w Ushio HPS w/ Lumatek, in Botanicare Coco coir (compressed bales hydrated with RO water, strain is Diablo OG, Tahoe OG, and King Louie OG.


Nutes- Gh Floranova Grow and Bloom
fox farms kanga roots
fox farms microbe brew
GH cal mag

I'm not in flower yet fully only one of the crops are starting but when I do flower I usually use the above recipe with Crystal burst for early flower and koolbloom for late flower, works well. This deficiency is showing up all through veg however.

I have another location that grows PERFECTLY with the same exact setup, shows zero deficiency, this makes me believe it could be the source water? Too much or too little useable calmag? No idea, could use expert help though, pics attached.


Sick plants


These are the better looking plants using the same nutrient regiment

 

[surfingrob]

here are the healthier plants, at a different location (different starting PPM) and using the same nute schedule. They are way bigger and way healthier for some reason. Showing a slight deficiency I believe? If a pro could check this out I would be grateful.

 

[Tonygreen]

What is your ventilation set up at both spots? Temps?

 

[surfingrob]

What is your ventilation set up at both spots? Temps?

I have AC's and Dehumidifiers running at all times, lights are on a closed curcuit ventilation system.

Temps range from 65 at night to 76-77F during the day, humidity is from 45-60%.

 

[razor ridge]

4th picture plant in the middle look like flower thrips

 

[Cougartex]

Have you checked for mites or spider mites?

 

[reg24]

Looks like typical coco lockout ...sometimes if ya don't flush the coco ya end up with too much K which can fill up all the space available for cations and calcium and magnesium uptake is low... at least thats what my coco would look like until I got it figured out .
Reg

 

[surfingrob]

Have you checked for mites or spider mites?

There are very little to no spider mites.

 

[surfingrob]

Looks like typical coco lockout ...sometimes if ya don't flush the coco ya end up with too much K which can fill up all the space available for cations and calcium and magnesium uptake is low... at least thats what my coco would look like until I got it figured out .
Reg

Can you elaborate a bit more?

Should I just run a flush with Clearex then resume normal nutrient program?

This sounds like it could be the ticket, I haven't done any flushing at all.

 

[reg24]

@surfingrob... I don't know what the forum consensus is for lockout, but I wont let that stop me .
The clearex is a good idea, then what I would do is mix a res full of your Ca and Mg product and just feed that for a couple of days. When you add your nova back in a couple of days keep the ec down by half and keep using the Ca and Mg.... ithink that calmag is just CaNO3 MgNo3 and if it has any sulfur in it then a little Mg SO4 also

Some peeps around here can grow in coco without using coco nutes ....I was one of them for a long time but not forever after having exactly what you have a couple or three time I srarted mixing coco specific nutes and solved the problem with a low K and higher Ca formula

Reg

 

[rives]

I can't begin to call myself an expert, but it looks like a magnesium deficiency (not "calmag") and very possibly from lockout. Calcium deficiency causes necrotic spotting on the leaves, whereas mg causes the lighter color around the perimeter of the leaf like you have. After flushing, I would supplement with some epsom salt to boost the mg. If you are on a public utility for water, you should be able to get a copy of their water analysis to see what you are working with initially. If you are on a well, you will have to send a sample to a lab in order to find out your base levels of minerals. Once you find out your base water composition, one of the nutrient calculators is helpful to find out where you need to be.

I fought a low calcium and magnesium problem for a long time because my water source is a network of springs, and it is damn close to RO water in mineral content. Most nutrients are compounded with the idea that the water that they will be used with has a fair bit of both ca & mg in it, so it is difficult to hit the needed levels with water that has none in it. Calmag (the product) usually has a good bit of nitrogen in it, so it doesn't work well to supplement with it heavily all the way through the run.

 

[gloryoskie]

How's the roots?

 

[RetroGrow]

^^^^I would pull one of those out of the pot and check for root aphids, root problems.

 

[papaduc]

Need more information on a few things you said in the initial post.

Definitely do not flush your plants with RO water without knowing more, because it could be the worst thing you can do.

I don't understand why it's the go-to advice whenever a plant has problems. If hunger is your plant's problem - which is not out of the question by any means - then flushing, especially with RO and clearex, will be the very worst thing you can do for your yields. Until you know for sure what your problem is, and unless you've got a clear case of burn, don't flush your plants.

You said you hydrated your coco with RO water.
Did you prepare the coco the same way for your other grow?

What EC are you feeding, at what Ph, and what is it made up of in amounts of each?

What size pots are they in?

How often are you watering?

Is 65f definitely the lowest it's been getting?

 

[surfingrob]

I can't begin to call myself an expert, but it looks like a magnesium deficiency (not "calmag") and very possibly from lockout. Calcium deficiency causes necrotic spotting on the leaves, whereas mg causes the lighter color around the perimeter of the leaf like you have. After flushing, I would supplement with some epsom salt to boost the mg. If you are on a public utility for water, you should be able to get a copy of their water analysis to see what you are working with initially. If you are on a well, you will have to send a sample to a lab in order to find out your base levels of minerals. Once you find out your base water composition, one of the nutrient calculators is helpful to find out where you need to be.

I fought a low calcium and magnesium problem for a long time because my water source is a network of springs, and it is damn close to RO water in mineral content. Most nutrients are compounded with the idea that the water that they will be used with has a fair bit of both ca & mg in it, so it is difficult to hit the needed levels with water that has none in it. Calmag (the product) usually has a good bit of nitrogen in it, so it doesn't work well to supplement with it heavily all the way through the run.

I can use RO water at 15-20PPM to water with. This should be ok as long I use 200 PPM of CalMag right? This is what I've gathered here from the other forums.

 

[surfingrob]

Need more information on a few things you said in the initial post.

Definitely do not flush your plants with RO water without knowing more, because it could be the worst thing you can do.

I don't understand why it's the go-to advice whenever a plant has problems. If hunger is your plant's problem - which is not out of the question by any means - then flushing, especially with RO and clearex, will be the very worst thing you can do for your yields. Until you know for sure what your problem is, and unless you've got a clear case of burn, don't flush your plants.

You said you hydrated your coco with RO water.
Did you prepare the coco the same way for your other grow?

What EC are you feeding, at what Ph, and what is it made up of in amounts of each?

What size pots are they in?

How often are you watering?

Is 65f definitely the lowest it's been getting?

Yes, both places were hydrated the same exact way and use the same everything. Starting water is different, that's about it. I will be using 15-20PPM ro water at both spots after I change my hydrologic filters, then adding calmag to 200 ppm, then my floranova to final ppm, I use some root boosters and beneficials also.

5.8 ph for every watering all throughout, I start clones at 3-400, in veg they get 6-700. In flower I have been keeping it at about 800 PPM max because of this issue, I'm afraid to overdo it.

They are all in 5 gallon smart pots, filled with about 4 gallons of the coco coir. I water every other day or when they begin to feel lightweight when lifted. I never let it dry out totally.

I have been growing for a long time but this coco coir lockout/calmag/potassium deal has always confused the hell out of me. Would love to master it.

 

[rives]

I can use RO water at 15-20PPM to water with. This should be ok as long I use 200 PPM of CalMag right? This is what I've gathered here from the other forums.

That might work for you for a while, but as I mentioned above, most CalMag products have a good bit of nitrogen in them and will boost you above where you want to be in flowering, particularly later in the run. I like the Cannastats nute calculator for seeing exactly what the hell I've got inbound to the plants. You can input a number of different nutrients and the levels that you use, as well your inbound water profile. Link here - http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/premixppm3b.zip

Cannastats also has some good information on desired levels of nutrients and different stages of development vs the intensity of lighting - http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/premixppm3b.zip

 

[purple wreck]

K.I.S.S. .... Works great with the style you are growing.

 

[Holdin']

I would quite confidently say that what you are experiencing is either root damage or some sort of lock out.

I think flushing is a great idea, as is checking the rootzone of your worst looking plant for anything unusual as far as unhealthy roots, or worse, pests.

Flushing is a good starting point due to the fact that if anything, it's a pro-active attempt at the process of elimination, even it worsens the problem. Do this on one plant if you are hesistant in any way...

Sorry about your woes, I understand your stress. Think positively, and good luck to you man. Keep us posted.

 

[Cougartex]

a simple transplant no matter how late it is with solve most problems with deficiency or nute burn or overwatering and under watering. diagnosing deficiencies is hard but any easy fix for most issues is a transplant. unless its insects....