A Warning regarding Dabs from Dale Gieringer

[Hash Zeppelin]

I just tried to o.d. on dabs. no luck. I'm gonna go eat cookies.

 

[high life 45]

if that's your logic then I O.D. on junk food all the damn time. lol

its true.

All junk food is OD for me bro.

Food is medicine, Medicine is my food.

I eat a really clean 100% og diet these days.

I "od'd" on frozen burritos once, although you might argue it was malnurition. It was many years ago and I ate frozen burritos for 3 days straight.

On the third day, I got sick. lmfao.

I eat 3 bananas, 5 leafs of kale and a half cup of blueberrys for breakfast now and havent been sick in over a year.

 

[The Hatter]

I've smoked flowers strong enough to make me white out...

That is not an "overdose" as it is being portrayed....that's TERRIBLE way of stating something. That is just someone with a low tolerance smoking more than they should have - NOT an overdose. Never is the individual at any risk of death - which is what an overdose indicates...

And to compare dabs to things like heroine and crack - is absolutely absurd.

Concentrates remove carcinogenic mater from the inhalation process. Are perfect for making hard candies or for using in vape pens or tinctures, where the flavor of chlorophyll is entirely removed....how any of that is bad...is beyond me.

Refining the part of the plant that is medicine in an extraction, is just that - refinement.

Should people be educated about the strength of such medicines - yes - but again, I've had times where I've just this side of passed out simply by smoking REALLY great flowers - so should that particular cut be considered dangerous too???



dank.Frank

Just because a THC overdose cannot cause death is not to say you can't overdose on it. A drug overdose is simply when you take such a large dose of a drug that it essentially overloads your body's ability to cope with it properly and serious negative health consequences result. Causing death or being capable of causing death is not a defining quality of a drug overdose.

It certainly fits the definition of an overdose if somebody ingests so much THC that they spend hours puking their guts out, fainting, suffering from vertigo, panic attacks, etc. regardless of the fact that it can't kill them.

I know a few people who have made themselves very sick because they didn't understand just how strong extracts can be so I see no harm in adding a warning label or dosage instructions to medical cannabis extracts. The same is true of medibles to a lesser degree.

Having said this, it's still silly to correlate even dabbing pure THC with something like Heroin or Crack. Although the intensity of the experience is in the same ballpark, cannabis products simply don't have the soul crushing addictive potential of true hard drugs regardless of how refined the extracts may be. Also the idea that a guy who cracked his skull on the floor because he got light headed while smoking bud should be counted as a marijuana death is silly. That's like saying bananas are a confirmed potentially fatal food because somebody slipped on a peel once and smashed their skull.

 

[Slip Kid]

I've smoked great flowers for a long time and over the years I've had a few white outs, most likely caused by being in a precarious situation to start with, like tossing a roach off the chair on a powder day right before hitting the cornices etc...I've done a few dabs at a friends place of wicked purged BHO and I will say I forgot what I was I was doing for a bit, forgot to grab the clones I came to take, forgot what I was buying at the hydro shop etc. It's strong, really strong but I imagine if you're informed and aren't trying to be a hero you'll be just fine.
Those dabs are doing wonders for chemo patients. I'm not one of those so I stick with flowers but I know now about BHO and how strong it can be so when it's offered I decline politely. It's easy to want to be tough about a big dab but you should be informed before you "go big or go home" in the presence of other users who have a tolerance. That dab of pure Nevils was something else, it was the first time I felt I was "drugged driving". My mouth was so dry I drank a gal of water and had to stop 3x to piss on the way home.
We used to have a similar effect from hot knives and black hash, similar but not nearly as strong. My mom caught us doing that way back, oh man I was in trouble!! She thought we were rigging up heroin or something. I don't know just my 2 cents worth!! Maybe a dollar...

 

[Gert Lush]

It's the dabbing of the wax / shatter crackabis with butane torches in crack bongs we are talking about.

So, in your opinion butane honey oil is "crackabis"? Really?

And you also favour a bong police to tell us what accessories we can or cannot use for our cannabis?

That is just sooo sad.

 

[Raho]

I think Gieringer chose an unfortunate term with the word "overdose" in this context. It is clearly pejorative. As a doctor, he has the vocabulary to be much more clear.

Despite the fact that the definition of the word overdose means simply excessive dose as posted by High Life 45, most people interpret the word "overdose" incorrectly to mean the same thing as toxicity or "Lethal Dose" in pharmaceutical terms.

The approximate lethal dose (ALD) is the lowest dose at which mortality occurs. The median lethal doses (LD50) the dose of a chemical that will kill 50% of the test subjects receiving it.
A given chemical will generally show different LD50 values depending on how it is given to the subjects. It is a rough measure of acute toxicity.

ISPE Glossary of Pharmaceutical and Biotechnology Terminology

The only reference I have ever heard for defining an ALD for cannabis was in reference to a forced smoke inhalation test on monkeys performed a long time ago which required levels so great that no human could replicate it unless forced to. The test also used combusted plant material, so there was no control for all the poisons released by burning veg matter. (If someone has a link for that, please post it.)

The assumption is that cannabis has extremely low levels of toxicity, although as we all know, too much of anything can and will kill you.

Because there is no established ALD for cannabis, and that the term overdose in common usage (not professional jargon) equates "overdose" with "lethal dose" the people protesting the doctor's words are quite reasonable.

Use of the word overdose to describe side effects of cannabis over-consumption should be discouraged within the community.

 

[Gert Lush]

I think Gieringer chose an unfortunate term with the word "overdose" in this context. It is clearly pejorative. As a doctor, he has the vocabulary to be much more clear.

[...]

Use of the word overdose to describe side effects of cannabis over-consumption should be discouraged within the community.

Thank you, sir, and I'm glad that at least a few people see it that way.
"Overdose" is a hugely emotionally charged word. We certainly don't use it for any other recreational consumable, e.g. booze, sugar, junk food (though technically we could), so using it for cannabis is totally disingenuous, in my view. Creepy, actually.


Sometimes I wonder if people that are fixated on making stuff "respectable" are just TOO keen to find an "unrespactable" whipping-boy to further their agenda. I couldn't care if Gieringer was the Pope of Rome, if he's trying to get mileage out of "cannabis overdoses" from concentrates he is full of shit, and should be treated as such.
Funny how no-one uses the perfectly acceptable term "cannabis overindulgence" as they would with aforementioned consumables. No sir-eee, one toke too much and we're in overdose territory...

Sigh....

 

[Skip]

Can't really understand its motivation. Who is this Chris Conrad? Is he meant to be some pro-cannabis activist? Don't need that sort IMHO. Generally, I find they are speculators angling at some position through controversial (but pleasing to the naive) statements.

Gert, you should look up who Chris Conrad is before you condemn him. He is one of those who have devoted their lives to getting medical marijuana users (often parents of children) out of prison. What have you done?

All I'm seeing here is a lot of ppl defending their use of a dangerous substance (butane). It's dangerous in many ways, and you can't deny it, so you attack those who try to bring some common sense into the discussion.

What is missing in this discussion is how BHO makes you COUGH! I've seen ppl cough for minutes after one toke. Now you can cough from any strong pot, however the intensity of the wracking cough with BHO is far greater. Go ahead, deny it if you want, but I've seen what it does. What are the long term effects of coughing your guts out?

And passing out with these extracts is more common (than smoking buds), and it's great that this issue was raised.

BTW, people pass out not because of intolerance of cannabis, but either due to low blood sugar or the lack of oxygen or dehyrdation.
My theory on dehydration is this: If you are dehydrated, there is not enough fluid in the lungs to remove the contaminants, so the resin sticks hard to your lung, lowering your oxygen processing capacity, causing you to pass out.

Until some scientific studies are done on the short and long term effects of using oils, waxes, etc., the jury is out, and caveat emptor rules...

Also, giving dabs to medical patients is risky, esp. if they have any breathing issues. Far better to medicate with edibles.

 

[BushyOldGrower]

In medicine we would call this an adverse reaction to a medication. Different than overdosing but you don't have to die to be overdosed.

I have had people puke after smoking a good joint. Novices often have a vaso vagal reaction first time they get really high. My bubble hash is easy to go weak in the knees on so you could pass out and bust your teeth.

Stoners should wear seat belts and sit down for a bit hit but we are a reckless bunch getting high standing up.

Come and take a chance at the Emerald Cup in Santa Rosa, CA Dec. 14-15 for lots of free dabs and hits of the killer shit. Visit the Bog Seeds Booth and get a big deal! Bog

 

[ChemDgMillionre]

im sure these ppl "passing out" were knee deep in other substances before partaking of the dab.

 

[Skip]

We can also add the political consequences, that are starting to be felt in some places as a result of the higher THC content of BHO. Some states may soon require all marijuana sold to be under a certain THC %. That would have a negative effect for many.

So as more BHO health issues arise as a result of more ppl using it for longer periods, the more likely it will get banned and so will a lot of high quality cannabis with high THC levels (like BOG's sour bubble!)

The authorities could easily decide to limit the THC level to 10% or less. So how would you all feel about that?

 

[Gert Lush]

All I'm seeing here is a lot of ppl defending their use of a dangerous substance (butane).

Wow, cry me a river, mate!

I have NEVER said Butane is not a dangerous substance, quite the contrary, I have always remarked how stupidly and irresponsibly some people seem to approach it. Pretty questionable to try to attribute that to someone who (fairly clearly, i think) objected to the context of the use of the word "overdose".

So, if you want to start a conversation on responsible use of chemical solvents, I'm right with you. My point, following from others who stated the same, was the irresponsible use of the word "overdose". I trust I make that crystal clear. Without anyone thinking I'm talking about crystal meth.

BHO makes you COUGH

Likewise, if you want to start a conversation on the physiology of coughing in relation to cannabis, I would find it very interesting, and would participate. I think it's an intriguing subject, I've researched it loads (practically) and have noticed lots of interesting things. However, once again, I find your association of Coughing->Dangerous->Overdose questionable.
Would a little common sense hurt?

The authorities could easily decide to limit the THC level to 10% or less. So how would you all feel about that?

Sounds a bit like Miss Grundy type scaremongering.
Shall we all behave better now, just in case the "authorities" say we are bad, bad people? Pur-leeez.

Don't know how anyone else would feel about it, some would be quite happy I suppose, from what I see in this thread -- personally I would feel that the world has a long, long journey ahead of it, to reach the Land of Common Sense.
That would apply both to pro- and anti- cannabis people.

Just because there are idiots associated with BHO, does not make concentrates all bad, yes?
Otherwise we might as well say that because there are some prize idiots associated with cannabis, then it must be a really bad thing, mmkay?
And don't even get me started on dry sift!

 

[high life 45]

SKIP imo they can ban BHO when doctors start handing out poppys to smoke and willow to suck on instead of morphine, and aspirin.

Just like with alchohol some states and counties may have harsher regulations, but I dont see any bans anytime soon.

 

[Skip]

Sounds a bit like Miss Grundy type scaremongering.
Shall we all behave better now, just in case the "authorities" say we are bad, bad people? Pur-leeez.

The concept of limiting the THC % is gaining ground in Europe, and some legislators in the US are considering it. I personally hate the idea because a lot of good genetics won't be available on the legal market. It could turn the illegal market into the cannabis gourmet's refuge.

Just because there are idiots associated with BHO, does not make concentrates all bad, yes?
Otherwise we might as well say that because there are some prize idiots associated with cannabis, then it must be a really bad thing, mmkay?
And don't even get me started on dry sift!

I'm not into the butane extracts, and that's just my personal opinion from what I've seen them do to ppl. If ppl feel confident in their own extracts for their own use, then fine, but using anyone's extract is a recipe for problems.

I was quite fond of honey oil back in the 70s, but I refuse to use it today, because I know better. What you do when you're young can be a lot less attractive when you're older cause you now realize that it did more harm than good overall.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

im sure these ppl "passing out" were knee deep in other substances before partaking of the dab.

^yup. a few beers is amplified quite a bit by a big dab.

 

[Gert Lush]

The concept of limiting the THC % is gaining ground in Europe, and some legislators in the US are considering it.

Perhaps so, but that is because the "legislators" you speak of, both European and US are clueless cretins, with only the shakiest grip on reality. They are basically the modern successors of the Anslinger/Nixon school. I do not feel that it benefits the cannabis community in ANY way to try to appease them (and much less so to buy their bullshit). They should be exposed for the goddamn fools they are.
Their argument is a bit like saying that a good Scotch whisky is the demon drink, compared to, say, beer, because it has 10× the alcohol content.

If ppl feel confident in their own extracts for their own use, then fine, but using anyone's extract is a recipe for problems.

I would agree with you on this one, actually. BHO (like any solvent-based product) is a bit of an art, and the purging has to be done right.
Still, the route to this is education, not prohibition or scaremongering.

I was quite fond of honey oil back in the 70s, but I refuse to use it today, because I know better. What you do when you're young can be a lot less attractive when you're older cause you now realize that it did more harm than good overall.

Let me get this right: You believe your use of BHO did you harm?
I am no youngster either, and though I haven't made BHO more than ten times, I enjoy it because it reminds me of the smoke of my youth. We certainly had no idea about BHO back then, I lived in a real backward place, in the nether regions of Europe. On the other hand pharmacists stocked medical grade rosin, made purely by cold-pressing of hash, I think, though it may also have been ethanol extracted, not 100% sure. Now, wouldn't it be nice to have some of that again?

I would support the idea that only chemists should be allowed to sell it, to ensure quality. Of course, anyone who takes responsibility for themselves should be able to make it. I'd probably buy mine at the chemist!

 

[Hydrosun]

All I'm seeing here is a lot of ppl defending their use of a dangerous substance (butane). It's dangerous in many ways, and you can't deny it,

I am denying it. Butane is NOT a dangerous substance, it is a POTENTIALLY dangerous substance.

I think it is fair for us stoners to defend the use of our BIC lighters, extraction systems, propane BBQ grill, knives, firearms and turkey firers.

Potentially dangerous is not a reason to invite in the ABSOLUTELY dangerous police and government.

I wish everyone was safe at all times, but that is not human nature. It is unfortunate human nature to believe more laws and more police make the world a safer place.

BHO is wonderful and certainly less dangerous than beer. Parents should take care of their children and adults should take care of themselves. Concerned friends should educate their friends on the dangers of too much beer or too much BHO, no need to waste a single tax dollar.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

^well said

 

[Weird]

concentrates are not dangerous, and if you think they SERIOUSLY need to educate yourself

in fact the only danger posed from the consumption is SMOKING which makes the consumption of concentrates safer than smoking marijuana in and of itself

as far as this bullshit overdose verbiage, your reaction to ANY dose of THC and cannabinoids will be relative to the current state of your receptors and still the only ill effect is sleep

water is still more dangerous than the psychoactive components in marijuana even in concentrate form

 

[Steele Savage]

Concentrates are exactly that, concentrated THC. You burn less material which equates to healthier delivery method. These were intended for real patients with real needs, though people with higher tolerance levels are certainly enjoying concentrated extracts. That said, med patients need to be aware of their health conditions and limitations. While on dilaudid, soma, ultram and gabapentin, I went into convultions, sweating and such. You just shouldnt (imho) be using some perscription drugs with herb extracts....

That said, the last people I'd want representing cannabis are Dale and Chris. Comparing hard drugs to concentrated forms is definatly not helping the movement, whether for medical or recreational.



One Love,
Steele