Terpenation at Terpene Station

[jump117]

I was under the impression that decarb'd oil was inferior because of reduced shelf life and lack of terpenes, is there anything other than that to be concerned about?

I wonder if you can find crystals in the decarboxylated?

 

[mr. durden]

Yea I started with a piece of shatter and then from information on this forum and elsewhere, raised the temps on it and it started to look like wax/budder but it never started looking like honeycomb. I don't really wanna mess around with it anymore because the shatter was a nice translucent amber, but by the time it turned into budder it was opaque dark brown I just decided I'm not gonna waste time catering to people who want honeycomb since there are enough people already who want shatter.

yeah, people either want shatter or wax it seems. wax is just such a pain to make... takes like 2-3 times longer in the oven compared to shatter :/ wish i could charge more for that very reason :/

 

[mr. durden]

Hey mr. durden!

I also want to name products properly, help me to learn it, please, answer a few questions.

Partially decarboxylated product can be crispy?
I thought that after partial decarboxylation product must be flexible but not crispy.

I thought that shatter is a hard, transparent product that is not sticky and breaks into shards at room temperature.
The product in the video looks that way.

What follows from the fact that it had previously been waxed up?
After processing product has become a solid, transparent and brittle.
Why it can not be called shatter?
Please define the term.

i think there aren't super clear definitions.

i suppose partial decarb'ed oil can be crispy. what a lot of people do is freeze their oil to make it look like shatter... at least when taking pics. usually high heat will make your oil a bit sappy. again, freezing will give the impression of it not being sappy.

i've seen shatter when thicker that is like a fruit roll up in consistency. it is slightly pliable, will hold shapes, stand up on edge, but can break.

it just really depends. i wouldn't use words like "must" as that seems like an absolute.

i didn't bother looking at the vid, but when making oil, either you made shatter or you didn't. if your oil waxed, then you are making mistakes. so having to manipulate your oil to make it seem like shatter simply means that it possibly looks like shatter, but it isn't. not sure how to better explain it. the better oil makers don't have to manipulate their oil to make it into something else other than what the oil wanted to be initially. plus, you have to add enough heat to break the bonds so that the oil won't wax up again.

i mean if you cheated on a test and got a good grade, everyone is going to think you are just smart, but you know that you didn't earn the grade honestly.

 

[jump117]

i wouldn't use words like "must" as that seems like an absolute.

I think deсarb'd can not crystallize, it has the consistency of thick viscous resin.
It acts as a plasticizer, gives flexibility to the rest of the product and does not allow it to become brittle.

I like absolutes, do not want to avoid them.

 

[nakadashi]

yeah, people either want shatter or wax it seems. wax is just such a pain to make... takes like 2-3 times longer in the oven compared to shatter :/ wish i could charge more for that very reason :/

Lol yea we have no business wasting time on a product that takes more time and effort to make, sells for less, and is technically inferior.

 

[nakadashi]

I think deсarb'd can not crystallize, it has the consistency of thick viscous resin.
It acts as a plasticizer, gives flexibility to the rest of the product and does not allow it to become brittle.

I like absolutes, do not want to avoid them.

I think Mr Durden's point is that the process depicted will at least lead to partial decarboxylation which will at least add some plasticity to the final product. I guess you can say that there are varying degrees of shatter, some being closer to the coveted 100% THCa (not sure if this is possible?)

 

[mr. durden]

Lol yea we have no business wasting time on a product that takes more time and effort to make, sells for less, and is technically inferior.

seriously! i do love the intense smell of wax, but jesus it takes so long to make :/ we can get the same price for wax as shatter.

 

[FatherEarth]

Decarb'd oil still forms crystals only not as nice of form/terminations. Whatever the crystals are there are more coming out of flowers than out of trim, and anything with crystals in it gets me far higher than without. Yea I know thats not really scientific, lol just an observation Ive noticed when dabbing various oils...

 

[jump117]

the process depicted will at least lead to partial decarboxylation

When heated to its melting point for a short time, practically no decarboxylation occurs and the hardness maintained.
Imo, the illustrated process removes any plasticizer. It can be residual solvent and / or any of the light flavors.
I understood that Mr.Durden suspects that FatherEarth freeze taffy to simulate shatter, to me it doesn’t look like this.

 

[FatherEarth]

Not to stir up shit, but FE, do you think that even though the heat gun you use is high heat, you're only heating the wax until it barely melts. flash heating it if you will. that might still be considered a low heat application am I wrong? its not like you are cooking the fresh wax in an oven for an hour at a certain high temp.

in other words, its the temperature of the wax that matters not the heat source heating it

edit:

Also, it could be the amount of time being spent under heat. I remember gray wolf saying something like even wax at temps of 120 for 6 hour periods could decarb the wax. when I first made shatter, I slow melted it all into giant Chrystal rock that i chipped away at to vend. well seeing that I was the only one doing this and the thinner pieces of shatter obviously looked lighter in color and was able to show better, i remelted the rock into sheets like everyone else does. sheets to rock crystal to sheets again. that final remelt turned my hard shatter into bend and snap even though i never let my wax hit above 125. it could have been the accumulative heating time catching up with me?

When using an IR temp gun Ive seen the puddles go as high as 198F degrees and that was me taking the temp myself. Meaning I had to set down the gun grab the IR and shoot the puddle so it was/ is most likely getting hotter than that. THe only reason I didnt do it in the video is the temp really isnt important. You can tell by looking at the oil if its at that point, thats what I was trying to illustrate in the video. When its clear and tiny bubbles begin, stop. Or else you will scorch it. In early photos you can see this more clearly.


Respectfully,

FE

 

[localhero]

yeah you should watch the vid durden, its actually done pretty well. honestly it does look like shatter and he hits the product with a laser temp sensor, it wasnt frozen. I dont think that process involves as much heat as you think. it looks like he just barely melts it, not heating at high temps for long periods.

 

[FatherEarth]

LH, no worries of stirring up shit, its all good. Asking questions about a method that doesnt add up to the science everyone talks about is expected. I too am looking for answers to explain it all...


FE

 

[localhero]

When using an IR temp gun Ive seen the puddles go as high as 198F degrees and that was me taking the temp myself. Meaning I had to set down the gun grab the IR and shoot the puddle so it was/ is most likely getting hotter than that. THe only reason I didnt do it in the video is the temp really isnt important. You can tell by looking at the oil if its at that point, thats what I was trying to illustrate in the video. When its clear and tiny bubbles begin, stop. Or else you will scorch it. In early photos you can see this more clearly.


Respectfully,

FE

ok so what im taking from this is that shatter can be made with high heat for very very short periods. thats actually a pretty quick method you use too.

 

[FatherEarth]

AllahKaZAaM!

AllahKaZAaM!

I will do another vid to show the temp of those puddles if need be. LOL I cant see durdens posts but from the quote I see hes trying to punch holes in it best he can... Have at it, I was expecting the opposition.
I have plenty more to share to confirm that this is more than an internet magic trick.






FE

 

[FatherEarth]

The video is actually over a half hour long, I sped it up to make it more timely but avoided any cuts so that nay sayers couldnt say it was fake. I had a battery failure once and annotated it when it happens in the vid. I also mention it is a bit soon to be testing hardness in the videos and normally wait at least an hour before testing, the longer the wait the better it shatters and chips up...regardless it still chips and shatters in under 30 mins. I will be sending off an sample for analysis to see whats up with the potency and decarbing...


FE

 

[FatherEarth]

Hey mr. durden!

I also want to name products properly, help me to learn it, please, answer a few questions.

Partially decarboxylated product can be crispy?
I thought that after partial decarboxylation product must be flexible but not crispy.

I thought that shatter is a hard, transparent product that is not sticky and breaks into shards at room temperature.
The product in the video looks that way.

What follows from the fact that it had previously been waxed up?
After processing product has become a solid, transparent and brittle.
Why it can not be called shatter?
Please define the term.

My thoughts exactly Jump.
Guess we dont know what shatter really is...?

 

[jump117]

Decarb'd oil still forms crystals only not as nice of form/terminations.

On your pictures I have not seen decarbed resin in the same form as it usually looks like.

 

[Lebniis]

FE, watched the whole video. Well done, nice clean work space, I like your style. Petri dishes- cool. At what point are you putting your oil in the dishes that it isn't pouring over the edges.

Do you not vacuum purge in your process documented in the video?

I don't see how this could be any more 'decarbed' then the method of 115* for a few hours. Doesn't seem that the oil would get above 130 for very long since you are only hitting till it is viscous enough to run around on the paper.

 

[jump117]

I don't see how this could be any more 'decarbed' then the method of 115* for a few hours.

More complete decarboxylation takes place at 293F for 7 minutes.

 

[FatherEarth]

when the oil just begins to boil is when it sets up best, no taffy. I can assure you its getting hotter than 130. My gun is set on high, that dewalt gets to 1200 degrees or so they say. If I dont keep it moving the parchment begins to smoke and its screwed. Or at least I would think its is anyway as I dont know what the parchment releases once it gets that hot. Looks like Im going to have to use the IR temp gun to show how hot its getting in antoher video...


Like Ive stated previously.. I cant explain it all, Im just sharing what Ive found through trial and error. Waiting for someone who understands this to chime in with some references to read. .