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F45 v3.0 "Ricky's Dope Farm"

Arminius

"I'm not a pezzamist, I am an optometrist"
Veteran
Decarboxylation 101

Decarboxylation 101

My oven temps are marked and set now making shatter set it and forget it. But in the course of discovering how sensitive the oven is, I over heated a bunch of material. It is what is called sap by some dispensaries, but no one wants to touch it. So I looked into other uses, and may have hit a home run!
Anyone who consumes cannabis in any form must subject the material to heat, in order to remove the carbolic acid attached to the beneficial compounds. Whether you burn it in a joint, a bowl, or vaporize it, you are decarboxylating the material. If you just ate raw cannabis you would have to ingest quite a bit to notice any effects.
Decarboxylation starts to occur at 105 degrees, and peaks at 289. At 290 and above you start to convert it all into CBN which is garbage.
I reliably get shatter at 85 degrees with most terpenoids intact. Wax at 105, etc...
I did two tests to verify decarboxylation. In the first test I took an equal amount of sap and MCT oils, and heated it in a double boiler. I kept the temps between 240 and 280 for 90 minutes. While my CBN number is a little high, I now know exactly mg per gram for dilution rates. This test represents roughly .4 grams of starting material.
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In the next test, which may be how I decarb all of it, I just put it in my vacuum oven at 200 degrees for 2 hours. The advantage of just placing it in the oven is that I now am not limited with what I can mix it with. I can do either alcohol, glycerin, or oil based infusions/tinctures.
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Now for the home run part! I spent an hour with a local dispensary owner and her primary buyer. They requested two strength vials. A 30 ml vial with 300 mg, and a 50 ml vial with 700 mg.
Almost all edibles have stated mg dosages, and I was able to calculate price per mg for the entire menu.
Edibles are on the low end at about .10 cents a mg, with capsules and tinctures reaching .30 cents a mg! I anticipate the 300 mg vials retailing for $60-75 with 15 doses, and the 700 mg fetching as much as $175!
For the math challenged; that places the value of "over heated" oil as high as 15 times the value for shatter!
In a small jelly jar I have 80g of sap mixed with the MCT oil. That should be 60,000+ mg of active ingredient. Even at .20 cents per mg, that is over 10k for material I would have been lucky to get 2k...
 

Mister_D

Active member
Veteran
My oven temps are marked and set now making shatter set it and forget it. But in the course of discovering how sensitive the oven is, I over heated a bunch of material. It is what is called sap by some dispensaries, but no one wants to touch it. So I looked into other uses, and may have hit a home run!
Anyone who consumes cannabis in any form must subject the material to heat, in order to remove the carbolic acid attached to the beneficial compounds. Whether you burn it in a joint, a bowl, or vaporize it, you are decarboxylating the material. If you just ate raw cannabis you would have to ingest quite a bit to notice any effects.
Decarboxylation starts to occur at 105 degrees, and peaks at 289. At 290 and above you start to convert it all into CBN which is garbage.
I reliably get shatter at 85 degrees with most terpenoids intact. Wax at 105, etc...
I did two tests to verify decarboxylation. In the first test I took an equal amount of sap and MCT oils, and heated it in a double boiler. I kept the temps between 240 and 280 for 90 minutes. While my CBN number is a little high, I now know exactly mg per gram for dilution rates. This test represents roughly .4 grams of starting material.
View Image
In the next test, which may be how I decarb all of it, I just put it in my vacuum oven at 200 degrees for 2 hours. The advantage of just placing it in the oven is that I now am not limited with what I can mix it with. I can do either alcohol, glycerin, or oil based infusions/tinctures.
View Image
Now for the home run part! I spent an hour with a local dispensary owner and her primary buyer. They requested two strength vials. A 30 ml vial with 300 mg, and a 50 ml vial with 700 mg.
Almost all edibles have stated mg dosages, and I was able to calculate price per mg for the entire menu.
Edibles are on the low end at about .10 cents a mg, with capsules and tinctures reaching .30 cents a mg! I anticipate the 300 mg vials retailing for $60-75 with 15 doses, and the 700 mg fetching as much as $175!
For the math challenged; that places the value of "over heated" oil as high as 15 times the value for shatter!
In a small jelly jar I have 80g of sap mixed with the MCT oil. That should be 60,000+ mg of active ingredient. Even at .20 cents per mg, that is over 10k for material I would have been lucky to get 2k...


:respect: arm, standardization will become the norm as the market develops. Way to stay ahead of the curve buddy :biggrin:.

Also I'm curious, are you mixing sap with oil, glycerin, alcohol, etc prior to decarbing, or after?
 

Arminius

"I'm not a pezzamist, I am an optometrist"
Veteran
:respect: arm, standardization will become the norm as the market develops. Way to stay ahead of the curve buddy :biggrin:.

Also I'm curious, are you mixing sap with oil, glycerin, alcohol, etc prior to decarbing, or after?
I did two tests. One was just sap into the oven at 200, the other I mixed the MCT oils (avocado, almond, and coconut), then decarbed it. Both tests were what I hoped for. Putting it in the oven is certainly easier, and allows for other mediums for dilution.

Just got off the phone with a lab tech at SC Labs. They did a retest on 5 of my 8 samples. I was curious why, and confirmed that above a certain potency they force a retest to insure results. Any concentrates testing over 92% automatically get retested. At 93.4% I was told it is likely in the top 5% or better of what they test!
 
Do you know roughly what the total bill is on your oil processing equipment of choice?

Also, is it a full solvent recapture technique? (think that's what it's called but you know what I mean - a closed system).

Sorry about the newbie questions. I've just always used bubble bags or ghetto oil methods so I'm really out of my depth.
 

Mister_D

Active member
Veteran
At 93.4% I was told it is likely in the top 5% or better of what they test!

"you have to spread some rep before giving it Arminius again"

Top 5% sounds like my kind of shit :joint:. Might swing out to cali in the next month or so. Got some friends that want me to come visit, and mega wants to sample his USD x (Skunk x Hindu Kush) cross I grew out. If your up for it maybe we can all meet up and sample each others wares :biggrin: Fairly certain my med card transfers to cali so it would even be all legal and shit......
 

Arminius

"I'm not a pezzamist, I am an optometrist"
Veteran
"you have to spread some rep before giving it Arminius again"

Top 5% sounds like my kind of shit :joint:. Might swing out to cali in the next month or so. Got some friends that want me to come visit, and mega wants to sample his USD x (Skunk x Hindu Kush) cross I grew out. If your up for it maybe we can all meet up and sample each others wares :biggrin: Fairly certain my med card transfers to cali so it would even be all legal and shit......
Absolutely! Let me know when you are in the area :)
 

Arminius

"I'm not a pezzamist, I am an optometrist"
Veteran
Do you know roughly what the total bill is on your oil processing equipment of choice?

Also, is it a full solvent recapture technique? (think that's what it's called but you know what I mean - a closed system).

Sorry about the newbie questions. I've just always used bubble bags or ghetto oil methods so I'm really out of my depth.
I have used closed and open ended systems. I sold my Tamisium since it only did 2oz at a time. I am currently using a glass tube that holds 8oz, using 5 coffee filters. The filtering, and purging are key, as well as starting material of course.
Little known fact: a solvent extraction is the only safe method of processing moldy bud...
 
D

DHF

All about the bottomline Arm.....Respect.....Glad things are good on your end....Good luck and take care.....

Peace....Freds....:ying:....
 

MrAwder

Member
Hey Arm, just wondering what kind of Vac oven you are using. I've been looking at grabbing one exactly so I can make shatter reliably - set it and forget it. Anything I should look for? I'm running small-ish amounts, like 4oz of material at a time once a week or so. Looking on ebay there seem to be a wide range of options and prices.

thaks
 

Arminius

"I'm not a pezzamist, I am an optometrist"
Veteran
Hey Arm, just wondering what kind of Vac oven you are using. I've been looking at grabbing one exactly so I can make shatter reliably - set it and forget it. Anything I should look for? I'm running small-ish amounts, like 4oz of material at a time once a week or so. Looking on ebay there seem to be a wide range of options and prices.

thaks
I picked up a Lab-Line 6 cf oven locally. It is an older model without the digi thermostat, but still reliable when you mark the temps. That size retails for 6-7k for comparison. You can get a much smaller one for your needs for less than 1k I am sure.
 

Arminius

"I'm not a pezzamist, I am an optometrist"
Veteran
Pics of the oil......or it didn't happen, lol!!
Lol There are pics a few pages back. Process hasn't changed since I got the oven a couple months back. Got rid of the last of the 93.4% run, but now I am about to process Cookie mids :)
 

Mikenite69

Active member
Veteran
Hey arminius nice thread you have going!! I saw your post in the cookie thread with that dude hating on your test results. That shit just has me lmao because if you look at his cookie pic he posted up a few pages back it looks like the shittiest gsc forum pics I have ever saw yet. Lol but he wants to give you shit about what lab you use because of what some other growers or someone else has said about that lab when he lives halfway across the country! Well nice job with your outdoor cookie results! One day I am gonna have to get out to Cali and get me a cookie cut forum or whatever and some cherry pie! But for now just some cookie crosses in my stable. Peace mike
 

Arminius

"I'm not a pezzamist, I am an optometrist"
Veteran
Alpha Day 52

Alpha Day 52

This room is 8 Deadhead OG that will be at Day 56 on Monday. The friend who gave me the cut takes it at 56 days to avoid bud rot, but he takes all his stuff a week early unfortunately, so I will make the call over the weekend. From what I can tell, they need at least one more week...
You will notice that all my screens have netting on them now. Less points of attachment, and more even canopy FTW!
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Arminius

"I'm not a pezzamist, I am an optometrist"
Veteran
Bravo ~Day 30

Bravo ~Day 30

I have more pictures, but I put them in the wrong folder somewhere... I will grab more tomorrow morning.
Tahoe OG is looking very promising.
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Headband will be huge!
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Arminius

"I'm not a pezzamist, I am an optometrist"
Veteran
Charlie Day 52

Charlie Day 52

Here we have half Deadhead OG, and half Fire OG. The Fire is just starting to swell, and I can tell she will go 70.
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Close up of Fire OG
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Arminius

"I'm not a pezzamist, I am an optometrist"
Veteran
Delta Day 1 minus 5

Delta Day 1 minus 5

This is the latest run of OGHC. Shortly after these were taken, they were flipped to flower.
Notice the netting going in.
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