D's gone hunting.........

[Tony Montana]

Nice setup mate

Frosting up nicely

T, x

 

[Mister_D]

Time for the weekly update. Flood table is drinking 10+ gallons per day, and starting to reek of things delicious . The mother plants continue to grow larger everyday, and i'm seeing some interesting things emerge from the latest seeds added.

Still getting small amounts of stretch on a few of them, but most have settled into their final height. Defoliation will start this coming week.

As you can see some of the ladies have those Victoria secret legs. Can't move the reflectors any higher atm, but will probably reconfigure after this crop to gain a couple more inches.

 

[Mister_D]

Thought I'd grab a few close ups every week. Going to try and show different plants every week, but we'll see how that goes. So far all close ups are of different plants, sometimes of the same strain.

First up is a Sour Strawberry Kush by Bog

Deluxe seeds Sweet Tooth F2

Another Sour Strawberry Kush

Not 100%, but I believe this is a Sour Bubble. Also by Bog.

Romulan

 

[Mister_D]

DMK

Nightmare Diesel

 

[Mister_D]

The latest addition seeds are growing and doing well. Gonzo has some insane stretch, great for vert. Bet you can guess which ones i'm talking about. Classic Berry IBL is producing some excellent structured plants also. Can't forget about the blue kush with dinner plate sized leaves.

Busy in veg also. The two in front are the Berry IBL mutants. Vegging ridiculously slow, but you never know, might be some killer head stash. The rest of the table is mostly Chemmy Jones, and Romulan, with some of Strawberry DD, DMK, and Nightmare Diesel.

I run all organic in my main garden, but I don't have a solid water only mix that can compete with chems in a remote location. Maybe someday, but right now I have other priorities. To that end, I thought i'd solve the need for me to purchase nutes for a good while.

 

[Mister_D]

Nice setup mate

Frosting up nicely

T, x

Thanks for stopping by tony. Pull up a seat and enjoy the show.

 

[silver hawaiian]

How long do you expect to run that BOG Sour Strawberry Kush? Also, that DMK looks bonkers. Now I gotta go do some re-readin' to finger out what that's all aboot..

 

[Mister_D]

How long do you expect to run that BOG Sour Strawberry Kush? Also, that DMK looks bonkers. Now I gotta go do some re-readin' to finger out what that's all aboot..

All of the seeds in this batch are supposed to go 8-9 weeks, at least according to the breeders . They will be ran until they are done. I haven't spoke much on the DMK. It's something I generally just run for head stash. Doesn't yield for shit, but the high, grape kool aid flavor, and rock hard buds, make up for it's lack of production . No idea of it's actual lineage, but I assume it's an og crossed to something purple.

 

[Dr.RedWhite]

The Jacks will serve you well.

 

[Mister_D]

The Jacks will serve you well.

Thanks doc. I'm sure it'll do fine for me . Plenty of others have already shown it's effectiveness, and after all salts are salts for the most part. Simplicity and the ability to mix them in desirable ratios is what I look for.

 

[bobblehead]

You need bigger soil for your organic mix to last the whole grow with just water... No reason you can't have tea brewing in the res and apply foliar sprays as you visit... I suppose jack's will do though... *sigh* lol

 

[SRGB]

Hi, Mister_D.

With such a project, if a sport were found, would you revegetate and preserve the original seed stock, select certain branches for preservation, or both?

Best,
/SRGB/

 

[sgapetti]

Hello fratello D, i am about to germ some destroyer from cbg, i am sure is going to be an adventure in my little cab i was hoping to see some different phenos , are you still growing some?

That said, your gals look stunning , keep up the good work!!

Take care S

 

[Mister_D]

You need bigger soil for your organic mix to last the whole grow with just water... No reason you can't have tea brewing in the res and apply foliar sprays as you visit... I suppose jack's will do though... *sigh* lol

I've been doing organic for somewhere around 5 years, indoors and out. Studied and understand the process very thoroughly . I don't talk much about it here because my threads are about my chem gardens, but ole D knows his shit when it comes to organics too. There is a reason I wouldn't want a tea constantly brewing in my res. Generally somewhere between 24-36 hours your tea becomes mostly mono cultured, thus losing the benefit of diversity that is oh so important in organics. I know a couple growers that have this water only organic thing dialed to the tits, but they aren't sharing the knowledge. I have some decent mixes on hand, but nothing yet compares with bottles in the yield department. Maybe you'll get it sorted out and i'll have another good idea to steal

Hi, Mister_D.

With such a project, if a sport were found, would you revegetate and preserve the original seed stock, select certain branches for preservation, or both?

Best,
/SRGB/

Plan is to revegetate anything I deem worthy of further testing. I don't take clones off seedlings as it doesn't make sense when I don't keep 99% of what I germinate. If/once a keeper is selected it will be maintained long term via clones.

Hello fratello D, i am about to germ some destroyer from cbg, i am sure is going to be an adventure in my little cab i was hoping to see some different phenos , are you still growing some?

That said, your gals look stunning , keep up the good work!!

Take care S

I think you will like them very much, and i'll definitely be watching to see what you find. I didn't keep any of the ones I grew as they weren't the pheno I prefer. I do still have around a pound curing in my personal stash though , and 10 more seeds to pop. I could snap a few pics of the finished product to give you an idea of the visual differences, if you'd like? Effect is fairly consistent amongst all plants, potency varies from high to extreme, bud density varies from fluffy to rock solid. Most plants naturally grow in the xmas tree shape, while others grow with no defined main stem.

for the compliments. I try to keep them as happy as possible. Can be quite the challenge with so many strains on one table.

 

[silver hawaiian]

I've been doing organic for somewhere around 5 years, indoors and out. Studied and understand the process very thoroughly . I don't talk much about it here because my threads are about my chem gardens, but ole D knows his shit when it comes to organics too. There is a reason I wouldn't want a tea constantly brewing in my res. Generally somewhere between 24-36 hours your tea becomes mostly mono cultured, thus losing the benefit of diversity that is oh so important in organics. I know a couple growers that have this water only organic thing dialed to the tits, but they aren't sharing the knowledge. I have some decent mixes on hand, but nothing yet compares with bottles in the yield department. Maybe you'll get it sorted out and i'll have another good idea to steal

Thought the same thing - it would require you to set the tea up when you leave one day, and come back before it gets anerobic - which is about a day later.

But why no sharey more of the organicy goodness, _D?!

 

[Mister_D]

But why no sharey more of the organicy goodness, _D?!

That garden is done with a partner that doesn't wish it to be online. I respect his wishes, nuff said . However if anybody has any questions bout the organic side of things, I'm available as always. I'm sure i'll have to school bobble a bit in his thread , so there should be some good information exchange as that progresses. Really, just about everything you could ever want to know is somewhere in, or linked from, the organic soil forum.

 

[bobblehead]

HA! Please do take me to school... I dare you.

I understand that bacterial teas are best applied after about 48hs, and fungal dom teas 36-72hs... However, its my opinion that people put too much emphasis on this, without truly understanding whats going on. Not saying that you don't know what's going on D... Just sharing my opinion.

Ideally we want to apply the tea when the bacteria are high in number. The tea can be applied early, with no ill effects. The bacteria simply continue reproducing in the soil. You can still apply the tea late, after some of the bacteria have began to die off. Once the bacteria die, they become plant food. This is how nitrogen fixing bacteria provide the plants with N, by dying. When the bacteria die, the N that they pulled out of the air becomes available to the plant. The same thing with the amendments that they consume, the bacteria has to die for all of the nutrients to become available. The bacteria that are still alive also feed off this waste.

I don't think it would be harmful at all to drop a tea bag in a reservoir that is constantly topped off. The tea doesn't have to be perfect to work. Ideally you would want to apply it after a 48hr brew... but so what if you don't? It still works. I highly doubt you have a microscope to inspect your tea before applying it anyway, and germination and reproductive rates vary based on temps among other conditions.

Synthetic nutes are generally going to outproduce organic mixes... Its the nature of the beast... or the increase NO3 levels... Jack's will serve you well, no doubt. With your 5 years of experience growing organic however, I'm sure you've observed overall higher quality in your organic buds vs. the synthetic. If your goal is to produce the largest quantity of bud possible, and quality is still passable, then by all means stick to what works!

I'm gonna take my spot back on the bench now... lol... Move over Silver. Pass the joint.

 

[Mister_D]

HA! Please do take me to school... I dare you.

I understand that bacterial teas are best applied after about 48hs, and fungal dom teas 36-72hs... However, its my opinion that people put too much emphasis on this, without truly understanding whats going on. Not saying that you don't know what's going on D... Just sharing my opinion.

Ideally we want to apply the tea when the bacteria are high in number. The tea can be applied early, with no ill effects. The bacteria simply continue reproducing in the soil. You can still apply the tea late, after some of the bacteria have began to die off. Once the bacteria die, they become plant food. This is how nitrogen fixing bacteria provide the plants with N, by dying. When the bacteria die, the N that they pulled out of the air becomes available to the plant. The same thing with the amendments that they consume, the bacteria has to die for all of the nutrients to become available. The bacteria that are still alive also feed off this waste.

I don't think it would be harmful at all to drop a tea bag in a reservoir that is constantly topped off. The tea doesn't have to be perfect to work. Ideally you would want to apply it after a 48hr brew... but so what if you don't? It still works. I highly doubt you have a microscope to inspect your tea before applying it anyway, and germination and reproductive rates vary based on temps among other conditions.

Synthetic nutes are generally going to outproduce organic mixes... Its the nature of the beast... or the increase NO3 levels... Jack's will serve you well, no doubt. With your 5 years of experience growing organic however, I'm sure you've observed overall higher quality in your organic buds vs. the synthetic. If your goal is to produce the largest quantity of bud possible, and quality is still passable, then by all means stick to what works!

I'm gonna take my spot back on the bench now... lol... Move over Silver. Pass the joint.

Would like to know where you are getting this info? Because I have close friends that did many experiments with various bacteria dominant teas and found 18-26 hours brew time to have the highest average diversity. They did this using very expensive microscopes, constant variables (temp, humidity, air injection rates, etc.), and college degrees to know what they were looking for. Microbeman and others on this site have also documented similar findings. Point you seem to have missed is the key to a great tea is diversity of organisms, not necessarily the highest numbers. As you know they will reproduce once in the soil, so it's more effective to apply a greater diversity and allow nature to decide who dominates. The soil food web is collection of many organisms, pouring mono cultured teas on your media just causes an unbalance in the web. Will it hurt anything that you can visually see in a plant reaction type sense, absolutely not, but it's not ideal either. So you're not wrong that I could brew a tea all week, and it would work well, but just "working well", doesn't work for me. More importantly it's not a detail that can be over looked when trying to maximize both yield and quality. BTW my goal is produce the most product in a given space with the absolute highest quality possible. I have found that properly grown organic is slightly, in effect and taste (I find both to have more complexity), better than properly grown chem herb. However the difference is slight, and to be perfectly honest most people couldn't tell. Then again most people have never had the same clone grown both chem and organic in totally dialed setups. I have other personal reasons for supporting organic farming, as I believe it is ultimately the best way to grow. I'm also of the school of thought that incorporating microbes in a chem grow has many of the same benefits organic growers gain, such as increased pest resistance. Ultimately I do what works best for my current situation, just as any grower should .

 

[bobblehead]

I took microbiology in college... So I think I have an idea what I'm talking about. I'm definitely not an expert... Your friends experiments along with those of MM will be specific to their environment. Brewing tea for 18-26hs is the best for diversity? Ok, but at what temperature? What pH? What nutes? In the lab we incubate our cultures to speed up reproduction. 18-26hs might be good, or it might take longer, up to 48hs. Maybe longer. Some bacteria do better in acidic conditions, others alkaline, nuetral. They prefer different foods... This is why a microscope comes in handy. Every tea will be different depending on the environment its brewed in, and the nutrients in the tea.

if you would like clarification on any of my other claims please be specific.

Diversity is great... If you are feeding from the same reservoir the tea is being brewed in, and the solution is being pumped out in regular intervals... Say 18-26hs later... Then again 48hs later... Then again etc... Won't the same diversity exist? The microbes are going to continue to reproduce in the soil, and some cultures will become dominant. You can continue to brew new teas and reapply the microbes that have been choked out by changing the tea bag... But they won't take hold if the resources aren't available because other microbes have already established themselves... And so then they die, and become food.

I suppose it would come down to reservoir volume... I'm thinking the water in the res would be exchanged at least every 3 days.

 

[Mister_D]

I took microbiology in college... So I think I have an idea what I'm talking about. I'm definitely not an expert... Your friends experiments along with those of MM will be specific to their environment. Brewing tea for 18-26hs is the best for diversity? Ok, but at what temperature? What pH? What nutes? In the lab we incubate our cultures to speed up reproduction. 18-26hs might be good, or it might take longer, up to 48hs. Maybe longer. Some bacteria do better in acidic conditions, others alkaline, nuetral. They prefer different foods... This is why a microscope comes in handy. Every tea will be different depending on the environment its brewed in, and the nutrients in the tea.

The 18-26 hours is something I was given as a general guideline to be used by the casual user, not an absolute. Ultimately, as you pointed out, the only way to know what is in each tea is to check each batch at various intervals under a microscope. The information I gave comes from someone who has over 30 years experience in commercial organic farming, and a list of agriculture related degrees that would make most professors jealous. Not to say you don't know a thing or two, but this guy has been doing this on a commercial scale longer than you have been alive bro. How far you want to tumble down the rabbit hole is up to you, but for most people 18-26 hours will produce a highly effective tea with a good amount of diversity (lots of documentation in organic forum if you need further real world evidence). At least provided all other factors are within acceptable range (temp, humidity, o2, food stuffs, etc)

if you would like clarification on any of my other claims please be specific.

Diversity is great... If you are feeding from the same reservoir the tea is being brewed in, and the solution is being pumped out in regular intervals... Say 18-26hs later... Then again 48hs later... Then again etc... Won't the same diversity exist? The microbes are going to continue to reproduce in the soil, and some cultures will become dominant. You can continue to brew new teas and reapply the microbes that have been choked out by changing the tea bag... But they won't take hold if the resources aren't available because other microbes have already established themselves... And so then they die, and become food.

I suppose it would come down to reservoir volume... I'm thinking the water in the res would be exchanged at least every 3 days.

The same diversity would exist if the same conditions existed in the soil/media as they do in the tea container/reservoir, but that isn't the case so no. You would have a diverse tea the first watering then some of the microbes would start to dominate by the second watering, further increasing their numbers in the media from the first watering, then by the third watering you have even less diversity, again further increasing the numbers of whatever microbe is dominating the tea. It's nearly impossible to achieve an absolute mono culture, but you can shift the balance by applying teas dominate in a certain variety of microbe be it bacterial or fungal in nature. Again, as I mentioned before, you won't see any signs of stress from your plants, but if you look at you media under a scope you will see the web is not in balance. This of course assumes you know what a healthy balance looks like.

Your point about certain cultures taking longer or preferring certain temp, ph, food stuff, etc is correct, but we're not trying to culture one kind of microbe. We want a diverse tea, so there is no way to hit everyone's sweet spot. Finding the happy medium where many things grow is the goal. Most important to remember is microbes "prefer" certain parameters, that doesn't mean they won't grow outside of them.