Natural Living Soil and No-Till thread for Beginners

[Jbomber79]

Von does that have a screen under it?

Have any of you used worm "juice" as a feeder? This shit has some nutrients in it and from what I can tell it's pure humus plants love it. the term worm juice is basically the liquid that drains from the worm casting also known as castings run off. I think my plants are digging it more than the tea?

 

[vonforne]

No it has no screen under it. I start training while they are in veg to get that and then use bamboo stakes.

I do not use worm juice in a bottle as the micro organisms are either dead or dormant without oxygen.

 

[Jbomber79]

ya I don't use the bottle either I go right from the worm bin to the plant.

 

[SpicySativa]

I keep my worm bin a little on the drier side. It doesn't produce any "juice", just light, fluffy, spongy black goodness.

 

[trichrider]

aha, found yas.

 

[vonforne]

I keep my worm bin a little on the drier side. It doesn't produce any "juice", just light, fluffy, spongy black goodness.

I am using smart pots now and have no juice on mine either. Even in my plastic bins I did not.

My pet worms are kicking ass right now and Monday I am adding another 5 lbs of worms to one of the 45s. Should be a great party in there.

V

 

[smog]

i got sum dried wiggleworm castings do these work or are the myco,s dead the only other compost i can find is steer manure i imagine there is bad stuff in it. i also have gh ancient humus for tea i could use this for soil but there was only 1 bag, should i had zho or roots organics myco product to my tea also or is just the humus microbes the best? and do you use sugars in your teas? i was gonna add maxi crop, diamond nectar,general organics bloom

 

[Carbon.Chains]

i got sum dried wiggleworm castings do these work or are the myco,s dead the only other compost i can find is steer manure i imagine there is bad stuff in it. i also have gh ancient humus for tea i could use this for soil but there was only 1 bag, should i had zho or roots organics myco product to my tea also or is just the humus microbes the best? and do you use sugars in your teas? i was gonna add maxi crop, diamond nectar,general organics bloom

Fresh worm castings would be better but in either case afaik there is no mycos in EWC. If there were, it would be dormant, as would be most of the microbes in dried castings.
Mycos need roots to develop.
If you meant sun-dried and not "some dried" then yes the microbes would die.

Manure is not compost; although depending on who you would ask, well-rotten manure could be considered compost. I do not use GH products so I cannot comment on them. As always with bottled products you are probably paying a lot for not much.
It is pointless to add mycos to teas, as they need roots to develop.
Sugars would be added if you were to brew an ACT, or for an aerobic extraction of some plant nutrients. I doubt they would be of any use to extract the nutrients from "maxi crop" or "organic bloom".
Diamond nectar is humic/fulvic acid, afaik, you could add it to your nutrient tea. Not an EWC.

Most of the people here will advise you to drop the bottled nutrients. Most are overpriced and often inferior to what you could "make" yourself.

Please consider searching a bit the forum, reading the stickies, etc.

 

[Carbon.Chains]

Can't edit my post, I meant "Not to an ACT" instead of "Not to EWC".

I researched a bit the products you mentioned, if it interests you I'd like to add a few things.

GH Ancient Forest Humus is basically leaf mold. You could go to a forest an pick it up fresh to make a possibly better tea.
It will largely be fungi dominant, which isn't a bad thing but for cannabis you should make your tea (as in microbial inoculant, not direct fertilizer) with (vermi)compost.
To this tea you should indeed add a sugar, such as blackstrap molasses.
Look at microbeorganics.com to learn more about proper ACT.
Maxi crop is apparently seaweed extract, this could be added to the above tea.
Here is what MM says on his website about the addition of kelp:
"kelp meal initially delays all microbial development in a liquid but does feed fungi and bacteria/archaea following 24 hours. If too much is used the effects are suppressive"
It should be added at at 0.25 percent rate maximum. This is for dried kelp meal, I do not know the rate for the extract you re refering to.
I guess you would need a microscope to figure that out.

Organic bloom is best used separately as a nutrient tea.

Hope this helps! My previous answer was written a bit hastily.

 

[trichrider]

afaik mikes in ewc are not dead...even dried in the sun, dormant maybe.
...and dead they would become 'fertilizer' or 'food' for something else...the plant? other bacteria?
it is a chain, no?
...and i'm not so sure fulvic/humic would be detrimental to proper ACT...maybe in excess.
humates...humic acid...see the relationship?

 

[Carbon.Chains]

afaik mikes in ewc are not dead...even dried in the sun, dormant maybe.
...and dead they would become 'fertilizer' or 'food' for something else...the plant? other bacteria?
it is a chain, no?
...and i'm not so sure fulvic/humic would be detrimental to proper ACT...maybe in excess.
humates...humic acid...see the relationship?

Maybe mycorrizhal fungi can survive the damaging UV light, I can't find much info on it, but other beneficial microbes certainly don't.
The predators of the dead fungi could be killed by the UV light as well.
Plants do not eat microbes...
I am ignorant on this subject so I couldn't say exactly who eats what but if my memory is good what eats bacterias and fungi are eaten by protozoa and nematodes.
They probably have other predators I don't know of.
Someone more knowledgeable should answer this question.

For the humic acid, from microbeorganics.com :
"humic acid in varying dilutions does not feed any sort of microscopically visible microbe. I observed that it actually suppresses microbial division and growth. This was confirmed by joint testing with Keep It Simple Inc. (KIS) in the Seattle area. We tested two of the most effective and popular brands. I cannot say definitively that all brands of humic acid will have similar suppressive effects in a liquid (ACT) but it is enough for me to discontinue using it or recommending it as an ACT foodstock. Please note that this does not mean that it is not good to use on/in soil….just not ACT."

 

[Jbomber79]

I think trich is right on the money here- nothing in diluted amounts feeds your plants what it needs.

Check it out Uncle Jims worm farm has some awesome bins that you can stack on top of each other. At the bottom is a holding spot for the liquid with a nifty valve. The runoff is pure humus- well maybe not 100% but a huge majority of it is leached straight from the castings. My findings are that the plants have much more vigor, color, and fight against pest and disease.

 

[trichrider]

ok, good to know.
good as soil drench, but not in tea.

so leonardite and humic drench don't limit microbe/fungal reproduction in soil?

but in tea it does.

never did i say humic acid is a food source for the microbe...did not happen, nor did i imlpy that.

How Earthworms Eat



Earthworms eat by ingesting small particles of soil and passing them through their bodies. As the soil passes through the earthworm, the earthworm removes and processes microscopic organisms and nutrients.


Read more: http://www.ehow.com/facts_7152100_food-do-earthworms-eat_.html#ixzz2fCa0nWUe

okeydokey. earthworms are eating bits of organic matter and micro-organisms. their castings are some of the most nutrient rich food for plants.
i believe the same concept applies to all the organisms in the chain.
they all cast out nutrients the plant uses...

some dead on arrival is just food for others, immediate nutirent availability for another link.

i honestly believe you must carry a high organic content to make tea work effectively...jmo.

i use humic acid and AACT to mature (break down) the rootmass before replanting. feeding with dilute molasses to keep 'em alive in between.

...i thought humates were what worms created???

have i been off kilter and be concerned now...?

btw...i'm aware that plants do not eat microbes...

can you link me to article on uv light underground where all this takes place?

 

[Carbon.Chains]

ok, good to know.
good as soil drench, but not in tea.

so leonardite and humic drench don't limit microbe/fungal reproduction in soil?

but in tea it does.

never did i say humic acid is a food source for the microbe...did not happen, nor did i imlpy that.

Well never heard of adverse affects using humic acid as a soil drench, but that doesn't say much does it.
I'm a lot more of a student than a teacher (I'd never consider myself a teacher for that matter) I know very little so my opinion doesn't have much value but my guess would be that ACT is a very "fast" environment, soil allows more time for the microbial population to grow and do it's thing. And that may be why humic acids are not inhibiting its growth significantly in soil.

About the food for microbes thing, I thought I'd quote MM fully, I didn't want to imply that you said it was a food for microbes Sorry about that!

How Earthworms Eat
okeydokey. earthworms are eating bits of organic matter and micro-organisms. their castings are some of the most nutrient rich food for plants.
i believe the same concept applies to all the organisms in the chain.
they all cast out nutrients the plant uses...

some dead on arrival is just food for others, immediate nutirent availability for another link.

i honestly believe you must carry a high organic content to make tea work effectively...jmo.

i use humic acid and AACT to mature (break down) the rootmass before replanting. feeding with dilute molasses to keep 'em alive in between.

...i thought humates were what worms created???

have i been off kilter and be concerned now...?

It is indeed interesting that EWC and compost are extremely effective microbial inoculants and are the basis of most ACTs yet they both contain high level of humates. Perhaps the addition of humic acid is redundant, even excessive and therefore detrimental?
Thinking the same way I would guess adding humic acid isn't necessary if the soil mix contains high levels of humates.

btw...i'm aware that plants do not eat microbes...

can you link me to article on uv light underground where all this takes place?

I must have misunderstood you, sorry again

And I based my argument about UV light killing beneficial microbes on this:
http://www.ibiblio.org/steved/Luebke/Luebke-compost2.html
"Microbes are inhibited or killed by ultra-violet (UV) light when exposed on the soil surface."
And the fact that ACT must be brewed without direct light on it.

I also found more info supporting this although not hard, scientific facts.

 

[trichrider]

we good bro. didn't want to leave a stone(r) unturned.
you may be right about it being redundant, but consider this...

very little castings go into my tea, a handful at best...30-40 gallons. not much in there and it takes abut 36 hrs to get populated.

...and don't you think that all those mikes are gorging themselves and then excreting the same or similar as the worms?

iirc the humic acid breaks ionic bonds allowing nutrients (elements) to be more easily consumed by the microbial/fungal population.

i'm in no way an expert either, but i read alot.

stay fly !

 

[DARC MIND]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=243151
good ol reading

 

[smog]

thanks i was confused about tea from looking at bountea and boggie brew they add dried organic nutes every time and bountea has a powder myco they add to the tea, for me the bottled nutes are much cheaper then all the box's of amendments or even a mix like kis, I had got the humic to help with chlorine i will bubble it for 24 hrs then make act or nute tea or use for just water waterings because organic soils have failed me before i think because of chlorine and useing the dry worms alone has compost. by the way the gh humus is really cheap 10 bucks at 1 mil per gallon for my use, 946 ml

 

[indianajones]

Here's the soil mix I use and have been working on for several years. Mostly vegan, and the plants really seem to love it. I can pull 3.25-3.5
lbs per 1kw from my better yielding strains (lemon G, BTK kush, boneshine, agent orange) , and 2.5-2.75 from strains that don't yield well at all.
Most of my ingredients are rich in hormones and micronutrients, and my inspiration came from growing psychedelic mushrooms. These ingredients
really bulk up the yield from mushroom substrates, and my reasoning was if it makes great fungal food, it is probably equally as good for soil/compost.
Here is a link to the thread on the mushroom forum where I got the recipe.
https://mycotopia.net/forums/supercakes-[brf-aka-pf-tek]/5009-hippies-supercake-formula.html

1 bag Fox farm ocean forest
1 bag napa oil dry pt #8822 (i recently made the change to this from perlite, lovin' it so far)
1 bag wiggle worm castings
5 gallons chunky verm
1 quart espoma tomato tone
1 quart alfalfa meal
1 quart kelp meal
1 quart soft rock phosphate
1 quart greensand
1 quart dry molasses or coconut sugar
1 cup oyster shell and coral calcium (manna pro brand, same that vonforne has in pg 1 pics)
1/4 cup epsom salt
1 quart mixed seed meals (5 lbs organic rye flour, 5 lbs organic flax meal, 5 lbs organic corn meal, 2x 4lb bags of espoma cottonseed meal,
5 lbs unbleached organic wheat flour, 5 lbs organic brown rice flour)

If I have a plant that can really take a high potassium level, I add one bag of coconut meat (the sweetened variety) from the baking isle in the grocery store.

I am sharing my recipe, but I also have a couple questions.

If I were to reuse this mix, I should probably add 1 cup alfalfa and kelp per cu ft in between runs and cover with castings or
compost correct? The other ingredients break down very slowly in comparison IME. Maybe add the seed meals back every second or
third grow? I know that I will have to read the plants and let them tell me what I REALLY need, but I would like to have some idea of
what to expect going in. I am fine with tossing the soil after every run, I use it in my vegetable garden the next year and it grows
some fine ass veggies! Forty to fifty foot tomato vines lol...

 

[Carbon.Chains]

If I were to reuse this mix, I should probably add 1 cup alfalfa and kelp per cu ft in between runs and cover with castings or
compost correct? The other ingredients break down very slowly in comparison IME. Maybe add the seed meals back every second or
third grow? I know that I will have to read the plants and let them tell me what I REALLY need, but I would like to have some idea of
what to expect going in. I am fine with tossing the soil after every run, I use it in my vegetable garden the next year and it grows
some fine ass veggies! Forty to fifty foot tomato vines lol...

1.5 kg per kw light! That's some heavy yield!
If you don't re-use your soil, only your veggie garden is benefiting from the rock-based amendments.
They take about a year to become available, depending on particle size.

For the re-amendment I would probably add something as a P source, from your list that would be Tomato Tone.
If you want to add the seedmeals, I'd add them once the previous ones are decomposed, although it doesn't seem necessary to me.

 

[Eighths-n-Aces]

anyone else notice this?




i grabbed the two boxes off the shelf without looking and now i'm doing the head scratching WTF thing. does Down to Earth carry both formulas all the time or have they changed something recently ?