Custom Flipbox to run 6 reflectors with 2 Ballasts?

[Snype]

PARTS LIST:

HomeDepot (or the like)

1. 14g stranded wire

• 3.5 feet of white
• 3.5 feet of black
• 1.5 feet of Green

1. 10x10 ( or bigger!) metal junction box
2. 3 2x4 outlet boxes
3. 3 1/2 connectors for the 2x4's box to the junction box, 8 romex connectors for the cords
4. 3 lamp cords ( 16g wire with plugs)
5. screws and assorted hardware to mount the relays to the junction box
6. 15 Amp fuse and holder
7. Three lamp timers ( I like these, no problems so far)
8. 3 regular outlets ( I like the singles)
9. wire nuts ( small pack of each )

• red
• yellow

Order Online ( or use same rated like replacements)

1. Flip Relay (POTTER & BRUMFIELD - PRD-11AG0-120 - POWER RELAY, DPDT, 120VAC, 30A) http://www.newark.com/te-connectivi.../power-relay-dpdt-120vac-30a-panel/dp/33F1536
2. Power Contactor (Siemens 3TD40-00-0AG2 120v coil): http://www.electronicsurplus.com/Item/141852/Siemens%20-%20Relay_%20contactor_%20Coil_%20110VAC_%20-%203TD40-00-0AG2/
3. Safety Relay/ Aux contact Omron G2R-2-SN AC120 DPDT 120VAC 5A :http://www.newark.com/omron-industr...-s/power-relay-dpdt-120vac-5a-plug/dp/08J0984
4. Relay Base,RELAY SOCKET OMRON P2RF-08-E http://www.newark.com/omron-industr...ay-socket/dp/35K4862?MER=ACC_N_L5_Relays_None

With these relays and wire it will be able to handle both 600w or 1000w with ease if you so chose in the future. The the above said it will be a single flip and a standard relay start, except it will be mechanically and electrically interlocked so the over all draw does not exceed 1200w.

My bad Magni,
I think that this Flipbox design that you made is a little large for this specific circuit. I hope I'm not a big pain in the ass but I really need to wire this into a 15 amp from the existing wall. This flip box will only use 600 watt lighting. I'm so sorry but I hope it's not that hard to rework some of the parts.

 

[MagniKhan]

My bad Magni,
I think that this Flipbox design that you made is a little large for this specific circuit. I hope I'm not a big pain in the ass but I really need to wire this into a 15 amp from the existing wall. This flip box will only use 600 watt lighting. I'm so sorry but I hope it's not that hard to rework some of the parts.

No, it's pretty much dead on,it's just going to be tight.
You have two 600w ballast running at one time, that should be about 5.5amps each, the load of the timers and coils in the relays is nominal. Should not exceed 12 amps altogether.
Also with the mechanical/electrical interlock on the power contactor no more then two Ballast at a time can be on, so you don't over load the circuit.

You do need to add three 15amp (20a would be better) plugs and three more 2x4 boxes. Also look at the "juction box" from home depot, you will see "knockouts" along the sides, get the appropriate EMT fittings to attach all six 2x4 boxes to the junction box. Three along the top (to plug in the ballast), three along the bottom(to plug in the timers).

You did see the links to the relays you need to order on the bottom of the parts list?

 

[Snype]

You do need to add three 15amp (20a would be better) plugs and three more 2x4 boxes.
You did see the links to the relays you need to order on the bottom of the parts list?

So I assume that from the main panel in the basement I would also take out one of the 15 amp breakers and replace it with a 20 amp breaker that goes to the flipbox with the appropriate wire for 20 amp use if you say 20 amp plugs are better. Am I correct because I can do that? Can you also make sure the part list is completely updated if I have to put a 20 amp into the main panel in the basement?

 

[Snype]

Ok maybe I was confused earlier on the part list. I'm going to Home Depot today to buy everything that I need and will order the other parts that you stated online. I will take pictures of everything and post it in this thread and hopefully you can walk me through it. Thanks a lot!

EDIT: Questions

1. Why do I want a 30 amp Power Relay as you stated in this link if I am only going to use this to run (2) 600's at a time? I don't want the ability to run 1000's because I will only be on a 15 or 20 amp breaker so I don't want to have the ability to run 1000's at all. If I am correct on my question, can you please link me to the correct Power Relay so I don't buy the wrong one? http://www.newark.com/te-connectivi.../power-relay-dpdt-120vac-30a-panel/dp/33F1536

2. If you change the Power Relay to a smaller amp as stated in Question 1, do I have to change the Relay contactor. (Coil: 110VAC) as stated in your link here?: http://www.electronicsurplus.com/It...ay_ contactor_ Coil_ 110VAC_ - 3TD40-00-0AG2/

3. Same question as Question 2 for the (OMRON INDUSTRIAL AUTOMATION - P2RF-08-E - DIN RAIL RELAY SOCKET) as stated in your link here: http://www.newark.com/omron-industr...ay-socket/dp/35K4862?MER=ACC_N_L5_Relays_None

 

[MagniKhan]

So I assume that from the main panel in the basement I would also take out one of the 15 amp breakers and replace it with a 20 amp breaker that goes to the flipbox with the appropriate wire for 20 amp use if you say 20 amp plugs are better. Am I correct because I can do that? Can you also make sure the part list is completely updated if I have to put a 20 amp into the main panel in the basement?

Yes change out your breaker for a 20amp and make sure it that you are using a 12g wire to feed the flip panel.
The 20amp outlets are more about how they are built then there 20amp load rating, over time 15 rated outlets would degrade due to the heat., there more to it but in this case thats all we need to know. You can build a device out of 20amp rated materials and only use it for a 10amp load, I usually do.

Ok maybe I was confused earlier on the part list. I'm going to Home Depot today to buy everything that I need and will order the other parts that you stated online. I will take pictures of everything and post it in this thread and hopefully you can walk me through it. Thanks a lot!

EDIT: Questions

1. Why do I want a 30 amp Power Relay as you stated in this link if I am only going to use this to run (2) 600's at a time? I don't want the ability to run 1000's because I will only be on a 15 or 20 amp breaker so I don't want to have the ability to run 1000's at all. If I am correct on my question, can you please link me to the correct Power Relay so I don't buy the wrong one? http://www.newark.com/te-connectivi.../power-relay-dpdt-120vac-30a-panel/dp/33F1536

2. If you change the Power Relay to a smaller amp as stated in Question 1, do I have to change the Relay contactor. (Coil: 110VAC) as stated in your link here?: http://www.electronicsurplus.com/Item/141852/Siemens%20-%20Relay_%20contactor_%20Coil_%20110VAC_%20-%203TD40-00-0AG2/

3. Same question as Question 2 for the (OMRON INDUSTRIAL AUTOMATION - P2RF-08-E - DIN RAIL RELAY SOCKET) as stated in your link here: http://www.newark.com/omron-industr...ay-socket/dp/35K4862?MER=ACC_N_L5_Relays_None

Those Amp ratings are the limit of what they are designed to do. The "power" contactor is a bit large but it had one hell of a price and Siemens makes real nice components.
The "flip" contactor, though on the large side, it's contacts will be handling the voltage from the ballast to the light. Over the long haul the high voltages produced by the ballast can create some aching that will chew up the contacts, shorting the life span, reduce reliability and could possibly create a condition for a electrical fire. They also have a nice "wipe" that keeps the contacts clean.
When voltage go's down wattage and amperage go's up! Wattage is an expression of energy/heat, more wattage = more heat.

So yes they are a bit over rated, but I prefer to build my components like a Sherman Tank, their safer and more reliable that way.
I've seen way to many grows busted (one was just in the paper two days ago here) due to bad electrical wiring and practices.

The third relay is there to keep the plugs going to power relay 1 from timers 1 and 3 from becoming hot when the other is energized.....it's a safety issue.

 

[Snype]

Just left home depot with my parts. Pictures to come in 60 minutes!

 

[Snype]

MagniKhan,
The electrical supply house isn't open on weekends so I will have to wait until Monday to get the rest of the parts but is this looking right so far:

The 20 Amp Breaker in this box will actually go in the Main Panel in the Basement? Do I need one in here too?

 

[MagniKhan]

Looking good, you'll need three more outlets and 2x4 box's( also the connecters)
The fuses should be 15amp and you'll need to find a holder for it, should be right around where you found those.
Looks like you will also need some adapters for those 1/2" EMT fittings for the junction box, not all the knock outs on those are 1/2". They look like big washers...1/2" to 1" should work.

 

[Snype]

Looking good, you'll need three more outlets and 2x4 box's( also the connecters)
The fuses should be 15amp and you'll need to find a holder for it, should be right around where you found those.
Looks like you will also need some adapters for those 1/2" EMT fittings for the junction box, not all the knock outs on those are 1/2". They look like big washers...1/2" to 1" should work.

So 3 more of the outlets are the things I can plug things into? Why would I need 3 more if the timer that you suggested has room for 2 plugs to use 2 600's? The holder for the fuse wasn't sold at home depot they said. I will get it at the supply house. So if I have you correct, I got the wrong fuses and need to get 15 amp fuses?

I will ask the supply house what adaptors are and make sure to get them an various sizes. Thank you so much for your help!! This is starting to look more simple now but I still have no idea what I'm doing yet. It should make more sense when I get the other parts. Thank you!

 

[Blue Suit]

A flip through a flip through a flip is the configuration you're looking for. Check out the Horticontrol website for some lay outs on flower rooms like this. Or, contact Horti Kris and get his advice.

 

[MagniKhan]

So 3 more of the outlets are the things I can plug things into? Why would I need 3 more if the timer that you suggested has room for 2 plugs to use 2 600's? The holder for the fuse wasn't sold at home depot they said. I will get it at the supply house. So if I have you correct, I got the wrong fuses and need to get 15 amp fuses?

I will ask the supply house what adaptors are and make sure to get them an various sizes. Thank you so much for your help!! This is starting to look more simple now but I still have no idea what I'm doing yet. It should make more sense when I get the other parts. Thank you!

You need one outlet per timer, they just wont fit more.
And I was wrong you only need two more, one for Ballast 1&2 and one for Ballast 3&4 make sure those are good quality out lets, you don't need to go crazy, just good 15 or 20amp outlets.

And yeah, we should use a 15amp fuse so it go's before the breaker, like I said the panel should run about 12amp all said and done.

The adapters look like this , HD or the supply house will have them http://www.buyhardwaresupplies.com/?t=5&itemNumber=3182953

 

[Snype]

Magni, I had to go to 5 different Electrical Places to find these parts. They said the comparable relay to the one that you stated is actually better than yours. Do I have everything lined up right in the box or should I move some parts around? Here's what I have and I'm waiting on a 3rd relay and the contactor:

 

[MagniKhan]

OK?
I'm not sure what your doing, but that is not what I spect out for you. It also doesn't work well with what I've set up and from what I can tell at twice the cost. Not enough contacts to ensure safety.

Sure those parts will get you there, just not the way I'm comfortable with.
I'm sure another parts jockey will have some ideas, but WAY to close to the edge for my comfort.


Looks like you will also need a "knockout" set or a unibit to make the holes in that junction box, but it well worth it as that is a much better box by far.
I'm smack in the middle of a project today so I won't be able to go though those relays till later to figure out what else you'll need.

 

[hvac guy]

Forget horticontrol, they are useless. What you need Snype is 6 of the flip relays but only single throw double pole. These 6 relays are wired to the 6 lights. Then for the two ballasts get two relays to power off each ballast before it switches to the next light. If you time it right you can have ballast shut off for about 5 seconds, switch the relay on for the cold light and switch the relay off for light that was just on. A PLC and a timer and you will have a very easy build and control exactly how you want the 3 four hour light cycles.

 

[Snype]

OK?
I'm not sure what your doing, but that is not what I spect out for you. It also doesn't work well with what I've set up and from what I can tell at twice the cost. Not enough contacts to ensure safety.

Sure those parts will get you there, just not the way I'm comfortable with.
I'm sure another parts jockey will have some ideas, but WAY to close to the edge for my comfort.


Looks like you will also need a "knockout" set or a unibit to make the holes in that junction box, but it well worth it as that is a much better box by far.
I'm smack in the middle of a project today so I won't be able to go though those relays till later to figure out what else you'll need.

Yeah I'm sorry. The guy at the store looked at what you wanted and said we don't sell that brand but he put the model numbers in and got comparable ones from a different company. I'm only using 3 2x4 boxes for 3 outlets. The box is much better than the last box. Yeah I spent more money. I have to drill my knockouts into this box when you say it's good to go. I just need to know if the parts are arranged properly. What do you mean there's not enough contacts? It looks like there's the same as yours. The 3rd Relay is out of stock. I'm waiting for it. Is this the problem:

 

[Snype]

If anyone knows if I can't use these parts that I bought, please let me know. I'm going off grid in a few days and won't be back for months. Just trying to get this finished. I will be in the chat room if anyone can help me out.

 

[Snype]

OK MagniKhan, I'm going to return everything back to the store and order your parts online. Can you at least just use my parts that I have in the pictures to show me where to put the wires to and if it is organized right. Do I need to move any parts to other places instead? I'm very confused.

 

[MagniKhan]

Sorry I had a long day.

I'd say keep the Square D relays ( or return one if you don't want a spare) and scratch this on off the list. " Flip Relay (POTTER & BRUMFIELD - PRD-11AG0-120 - POWER RELAY, DPDT, 120VAC, 30A) http://www.newark.com/te-connectivit...nel/dp/33F1536"

We can also make use of the SCHNEIDER ELECTRIC RUMC3AB1F7 for the Safety Relay/ Aux contact instead of this one "Omron G2R-2-SN AC120 DPDT 120VAC 5A :http://www.newark.com/omron-industri...lug/dp/08J0984" , so scratch it also. Not a bad idea to an extra one of these also, but you only need one.

Lets get all our parts then we can lay it out and wire it. I have to re due one of the pic's for the new relay, but other then that we can get it done.

 

[Snype]

Sorry I had a long day.

I'd say keep the Square D relays ( or return one if you don't want a spare) and scratch this on off the list. " Flip Relay (POTTER & BRUMFIELD - PRD-11AG0-120 - POWER RELAY, DPDT, 120VAC, 30A) http://www.newark.com/te-connectivit...nel/dp/33F1536"

We can also make use of the SCHNEIDER ELECTRIC RUMC3AB1F7 for the Safety Relay/ Aux contact instead of this one "Omron G2R-2-SN AC120 DPDT 120VAC 5A :http://www.newark.com/omron-industri...lug/dp/08J0984" , so scratch it also. Not a bad idea to an extra one of these also, but you only need one.

Lets get all our parts then we can lay it out and wire it. I have to re due one of the pic's for the new relay, but other then that we can get it done.

I returned everything cause you said I was wrong. Is the original part list that you made a go or not. I don't know what to do and I'm going off grid in a few days for 3 months. Can you please come to chat for a few minutes?

I don't understand? I thought I needed 3 relays and 3 contactors and 3 of the other relays. Can you please let me know the full part list because the old one is a little confusing as to how many of the parts in the link that I need. Are those links still right? Now you are saying keep the ones that I returned. What do I do?

 

[MagniKhan]

I returned everything cause you said I was wrong. Is the original part list that you made a go or not. I don't know what to do and I'm going off grid in a few days for 3 months. Can you please come to chat for a few minutes?

I don't understand? I thought I needed 3 relays and 3 contactors and 3 of the other relays. Can you please let me know the full part list because the old one is a little confusing as to how many of the parts in the link that I need. Are those links still right? Now you are saying keep the ones that I returned. What do I do?

Then in that case order everything on the list so that way the online stuff is on the way.