Broad Mites?

[the gnome]

I know Forbid did not work (for me), because even weeks after a few treatments, I still saw eggs, and new plants that were not treated with ANYTHING yet got chewed up and "duded-out".

Ive treated plants with forbid/avid and also with volck oil, the volck oil kills spider mites but not BMs, however it is an excellent ovacide with on a very low order toxicity comparedd to pylon forbid and avid. and kills all mite eggs.
forbid has also killed mite eggs for me.

as for you still seeing eggs after treatment,
Ive had plants that were mite free for 4-6 weeks and still could scope out eggs everywhere but not a single live BM.
those lil bastards must super glue em to the leaf.
But, you need to scope things out regardless.
some of the eggs were dark colored and obviously DOA.
others were still white and looked viable and thats the scary thing for me.. even knowing they're cooked its an un-nerving sight to see em.
don't think volck oil turns the egg sac brown like forbid

That Pylon TR bomb ROCKS. Just be aware that it is NOT the same formulation as the Pylon SC.....so take nothing for granted and use a scope to be sure. Post results too! Peace.

pylon is the shit but XXXpensive,
so i used the Pylon TR Bombs.
they'll treat 50,000cuft/3,000sqft floor space, a 40'x125' room w/10ft cielings which is way over kill in most grow rooms so i disengage the locking tab on the spray button and give the room a good 10 second shot and close the door for a few hours

I think i was the 1st *BM casualty* on IC
i was infested with BMs in nov 2010, it was 18 months before i realized what I was up against, when this thread went up
TY Phillthy for letting me know .
since march of this year i have been BM free at all grow locations since 2010 and I haven't sprayed anything.

i sprayed avid, forbid, volck oil in combination with pylon TR and pyrethrin bombs
I sprayed floors, carpet, and walls 4ft up especially in cracks and crevasses like base boards.... LOL i haven't even seen a single gnat thats always seems to be present in every florida gro

 

[Storm Shadow]

Kontos did not work for me. Period. Tetra-San working for me says only that I tried it and it worked. I do not care about labels, I used both products. I was not aware you had tried Kontos, so I'll back off on that but it did not work for me. It is also a systemic miticide and as you say "...after you do all the treatments..." No thank you on that merit alone. I apologize for assuming you hadn't tried Kontos yet. My bad.

Why is everything so confrontational with you? I'm not busting your chops just trying to present different experience. If I were busting chops I'd mention how you claim POG BM's are immune to Forbid but in the next post claim Forbid as the "only" ovicide against BM's. There are several posts in this thread indicating it does not work as an ovicide against BM's. I know, it works on all others but POG, RIGHT? We must all have POG BM's! Should we discount everything you write as well?

Posting the number of grows or plants you have is not impressive.....kinda silly in my world. How about addresses next? I could play that BS card.....talk about my education in Ag etc. Yata yata.........BLOW ME!

I'll let my posts speak for themselves.

Have a great weekend SS.

Peace.

Forbid is the only product labeled an ovicide and all stages of life for BM's... I was simply pointing out what the label says...

As oppose to your PHD in Bro Science 101 claiming Tetrasan was a BM ovicide with ZERO proof except your weak ass opinion with nothing but 30 post to back it up... No thanks

PO only uses Forbid on their BM's..You have to rotate with everything else or the Forbid will be useless...

What it comes down is this.... these products work and its been proven time after time by study after study.. so why is not working for a lot of you? Perhaps its on the USER end of the ordeal..

Food for thought for any of u claiming that Chems wont work...for real

http://www.ipmnet.umd.edu/greenhouse/docs/EB%20363%20Greenhouse%20Bulletin-University%20of%20Maryland%20Extension-Part%201%20Insects%20Diseases%20Other.pdf


Chapter 4 page 23
Droplet Size vs the Pest

Ive said b4 I use a fogger for my applications... I don't play that Bro Science Non-Sense... I have $tacks to make

People who talk shit...are the ones who need to read that I link

 

[Thomas Paine]

neem

neem

Pure Neem Oil

All Natural Pest Control

Neem oil is pressed from the seed of the neem tree (Azadiracta indica). This tree, native to eastern India and Burma, is known by several names including "village pharmacy," "cornucopia," "wonder tree," and "the veritable gold mine." Neem leaves, stems, seeds and oil have been used for medicinal purposes and pest control in India for more than 4,000 years. In fact, its Sanskrit name, arishta, means "reliever of sickness."

Product Safety:

Because neem products are used for human consumption and medication, exposure to neem in the process of treating plants with neem oil poses no threat to humans or other higher animals. Moreover, neem is not harmful to beneficial insects, affecting only those insects feeding on plants treated with neem. Since most predator insects do not also feed on plants, they are not harmed by the presence of neem. Neem biodegrades in a matter of weeks when exposed to sunlight or in soil.

In EPA testing, establishment of an LD-50 proved impossible as azadirachtin, one of numerous organic compounds present in neem oil, was asymptomatic at all levels tested. Accordingly, there are no reentry or residual restrictions associated with the use of neem oil.

Horticultural Benefits:

Numerous tests have shown neem oil to be effective as an insecticide, miticide, fungicide, nematacide, and as an insect antifeedant and repellant. An insect antifeedant is a substance that discourages insect feeding but does not directly kill the insect. Azadirachtin is a potent insect antifeedant and disrupts the molting cycle of the ingesting insect leading to its death. As an antifeedant, neem oil is so effective that in tests desert locusts, voracious herbivores, will starve to death before eating plants treated with neem oil.

Insects rapidly evolve, developing resistance to conventional pesticides which directly and nonselectively kill them. As a result, existing chemical insecticides are becoming less effective for the control of the pests. Moreover, widespread use of chemical insecticides indiscriminately kills both harmful and beneficial insects creating the need to use more pesticides! Because neem extracts disrupt the growth of insects in a variety of ways, insects are not likely to develop resistance to neem insecticides. Naturally occurring compounds in neem have been shown to be an effective antifeedant and growth regulator for more than 200 species of insect pests and yet are surprisingly nontoxic to birds, mammals and beneficial predators like ladybugs, spiders, bees & wasps.

In addition to the above-mentioned effects, neem inhibits normal insect mating, oviposition and larval development as well as reducing female fertility. These effects reduce the risk of harm to beneficial insects, birds and other predators, which prey on harmful insects. Neem's antifeedant properties even effect snails. Neem extracts inhibit the action of denitrifying bacteria in the ground which reduce nitrate, ammonia and urea to molecular nitrogen (N2) and nitrous oxide, both volatile gasses. In the absence of controls, the action of these bacteria result in not only the loss of an important macronutrient, nitrogen, from the soil but also in the release of ozone depleting, greenhouse gases to the atmosphere.

Neem extracts have shown incredible success in combating not only fungal problems on leaves but also many forms of root rot. Neem is effective in both contact and systemic roles. Accordingly, for optimum benefits it should be sprayed on all sides of foliage and watered into the root zone.

Implementation of environmentally friendly horticultural practices is essential to the preservation of the quality of life on Earth. Ecologically sound practices which rely less upon synthetic chemical pesticides and more upon integrated pest management (IPM) practices including the use of naturally occurring pest controls like neem oil are imperative to maintain soil productivity and reduce ancillary poisoning of people and animals.

Other Benefits:

For more-extensive discussions on neem see the website for the Neem Foundation at or the Neem Association at other websites which cite scientific research and anecdotal information on the benefits of neem for both human and plant health.

 

[Thomas Paine]

@ Sunste Limited:

Those specs look like pieces of dirt or coco or something similar.

But your plants are showing the "taco-leaf" thing that may be indicative of Tarsonemid mites.

Sorry for being confrontational, my stress level has been through the roof and I am having problems controlling my emotions throughout this whole experience.

Again - I am sorry or anyone I came across as "testsy" to. I know we are all in the same boat and looking for answers.

------------

@ Gnome : Thanks for the info on the eggs. That is exactly what I wanted to hear. After treatment, I was wondering if the eggs just fall off an die.

I guess they don't.

 

[Thomas Paine]

@ Storm Shadow:

Loving that link. Good read overall, learned quite a bit.

Didn't know that predators laid eggs on the leaves.

Thanks for this.

 

[Thomas Paine]

@ Sunset Limited again:

In the second pic, next to the dust spec, I see a mite egg to the right of the spec.

 

[RetroGrow]

We have a heat wave, so tommorow is a heat t. day. It is working for me... At least I'm not hurting the plants, if nothing else...

Aren't you scoping them to confirm? You should see nothing living after a heat treatment. Just dead bodies.....and fried eggs.

 

[RetroGrow]

These are "Cali Con" strains known to me to be particularly susceptible to BM damage .They where all showing signs of infection 5 weeks ago. (a couple of these are crosses I have made). Sprayed once a week for four weeks with OGB nothing conclusive yet (as I am waiting for a 500x digital camera/microscope.) I noticed what looks like eggs with my "pos" 10 dollar 100x scope and I am pretty sure they are trics as a couple of these strains are already smelling like fine meds. (they smell from standing a few yards away) Hence, the tric's that are giving off the smell already. Some of the healthiest plants I ever had.Time will tell.The indoor looks just as healthy. (The white splotches are talc residue from the OGB used as a carrier of the fungus). Just as a side note. I have been noticing dead moths and a grass-hopper and some other bugs at the base of the pots (on the ground around the pots base) never noticed this before.

Wish you had some "before" pictures to compare it to. They look pretty healthy now, yet you can't say anything conclusive yet? You said they showed "signs of infection". Are you going by plant symptoms, or did you scope & confirm mites and/or eggs? It's pretty easy to tell difference between eggs and trichs. Trichs will be all over everything. Eggs will be under leaves, and not in the same numbers. Also, they are considerably larger, and kind of have an "opaque" look to them....cloudy looking. They may be scattered here & there, or there may be "clusters" of them, but not all over everything like trichs. I never had a problem identifying eggs with a $10 POS scope. You need a bright light on them though. A small LED flashlight placed strategically will make identification much simpler.

 

[RetroGrow]

I think i was the 1st *BM casualty* on IC
i was infested with BMs in nov 2010, it was 18 months before i realized what I was up against, when this thread went up

Ha, ha! I think I've got you beat there, bro. I'll have to check the date on some of my posts in the infirmary, but I had them long before that, thinking it was TM or another virus. Not exactly a point of pride though. It's like the first one to get a rare disease, and they name it after you...
Good point about the eggs though, ie, how do you know for sure if eggs are dead or still viable? Pretty much impossible. Sometimes they just melt and turn dark as you said, so you know they are dead. But sometimes they are just sitting there and there's no way of immediately knowing if they are alive or dead. Just have to keep scoping, looking for live fuckers, who are pretty good at hiding themselves.
Congratulations on clearing your room, though. Not an easy task, especially in Florida or Southern California, where they are outside in vast numbers.
Keep up the good work.

 

[Some old dude]

yup

yup

Wish you had some "before" pictures to compare it to. They look pretty healthy now, yet you can't say anything conclusive yet? You said they showed "signs of infection". Are you going by plant symptoms, or did you scope & confirm mites and/or eggs? It's pretty easy to tell difference between eggs and trichs. Trichs will be all over everything. Eggs will be under leaves, and not in the same numbers. Also, they are considerably larger, and kind of have an "opaque" look to them....cloudy looking. They may be scattered here & there, or there may be "clusters" of them, but not all over everything like trichs. I never had a problem identifying eggs with a $10 POS scope. You need a bright light on them though. A small LED flashlight placed strategically will make identification much simpler.

Ya, they suffered from the BM toxins .I have been fighting the BM's for years. When the forbid wears off they come back every time.Judo/forbid usually protects them for around 6 months or so. But now I'm trying to battle them using heat, OGB, and hopfully just a twice a month spraying of OGB. I'm trying to see if I can keep them in a stable condition without using trans laminar toxins. I usually only look at the underside of leaf. I saw clear round trics I quess. My eyes are not so good as the name suggests. I believe I will know better when I can post some pictures here when I get my digital scope. Also I have been using swirski mites hanging the sachets all over my property part of last year and part of this year and I have heard they could possibly be swirski mite eggs. Usually I will see the tell tale signs of BM damage way before this growth at this point especially outside but I am experiencing no obvious damage inside or out. They may be eggs but the mites themselves seem to be absent or some other explaination. Knock on wood...! My prior screen name was "peacemonger" I may have both of you beat ...lol I was one of the idiots who swore up and down this was TMV...hehe

 

[TripleDraw27]

I just dropped Pylon bombs in veg yesturday and today everything is standing up and reaching for the light...best overnight result since adding aspirin.

Can someone please post a link to a recommended space heater with no thermal circuit protection?

fwiw, avid, floramite, etc has the same effect on plants when you spray. So??? grats

 

[Thomas Paine]

Predator Mites

Predator Mites

My predator mites arrived today. I misted down all my plants and dropped these all over my indoor and outdoor plants. You can actually see these things, and man do they move fast. I can see them crawling all over the plants... stoked !

 

[siftedunity]

I think its a good call but like someone else said even the residue on the plants mite kill them off. good luck though..

 

[siftedunity]

you're a funny guy. i know i'm amused.

i believe it was cap who referenced an academic paper that cited B. thuringiensis toxin as a known mite killer. that got me thinking that straight B. thuringiensis—which kills the shit out of gnats—MIGHT have some action against broad mites. after all, where better to get B. thuringiensis toxin than from B. thuringiensis?

i happen to have a lot of the shit laying around as well as a plant with mites, so i'm giving it a shot to see what happens. even if i do observe an improvement, it would hardly be conclusive. there is a wide gulf between testing a hypothesis and proffering the stuff as a miracle cure. i'm sure you already know this, but you won't get nearly as much attention ridiculing someone for collecting empirical evidence as you will for saying crazy shit.

.

B. thuringiensis is a bacteria which produces a toxin from my understanding . its cool that your trying something new to try but the label is pretty similar to things like avid, the uses as a bio pesticide are already known about so im sure it will probably work -but its apparently less effective on mites.
seeing as its been tested on mites the data is already out there to be found.

 

[Thomas Paine]

I think its a good call but like someone else said even the residue on the plants mite kill them off. good luck though..

On the directions for use it says to stop using insecticides at least 3 days before use.

It has been more than 3 days since I sprayed anything on them.

From now on it's just Neem and predator mites for control.

Avid for anything coming in the room new or for outbreaks.

Plants are looking great BTW. New growth everywhere.

I'll try to post some pics of the tops tomorrow.

 

[ozzieAI]

just a heads up on neem oil, only use 100% pure neem oil with an emulsifier and neem is also a miticide....

BTW any of the BM sufferers ever use just pure neem oil as a spray & soil drench?

good luck with this problem boys...glad i don't have em....

 

[Thomas Paine]

BT - different strain

BT - different strain

Hey guys, here's a cheap 1 pound bag of a different strain of BT, sounds quite promising from the label:

DIPEL PRO DF Biological insecticide BT+ 54%

Bacillus thuringiensis - Kustaki Strain (Bt+)

DiPel is the leading biological insecticide on the market today. Registered for use on a variety of ornamentals, DiPel PRO DF delivers outstanding control of more than 30 species of insects, including tent caterpillar and various bagworms, looper, tobacco budworms and armyworms. Its dry flowable formulation is dust free and easy to measure and mix. DiPel PRO DF is biodegradable and has minimal effect on humans, non-target animals or the environment. DiPel DF is listed by the Organic Materials Review Institute (OMRI) for use in organic production.

 

[Thomas Paine]

@ OzzieAI

Neem Product Safety:

Because neem products are used for human consumption and medication, exposure to neem in the process of treating plants with neem oil poses no threat to humans or other higher animals. Moreover, neem is not harmful to beneficial insects, affecting only those insects feeding on plants treated with neem. Since most predator insects do not also feed on plants, they are not harmed by the presence of neem. Neem biodegrades in a matter of weeks when exposed to sunlight or in soil.

I posted this only 1 page back, and is readily available info

Thanks though.

 

[ozzieAI]

Moreover, neem is not harmful to beneficial insects, affecting only those insects feeding on plants treated with neem. Since most predator insects do not also feed on plants, they are not harmed by the presence of neem.

yes, as i understand....good mites eating the bad mites is fine.... if the good mite eats a bad mite covered with neem oil, or gets it in it's system it will have the same affect it did on the leaf eater...it would be interesting to find out for sure though...want to take a few of your good mites and hit with the neem?

this is why i use neem oil systemically...can't hurt the good bugs...for sure

cheers

 

[GET MO]

BT is horrible for bees.